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Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 2:47:01 AM

shouldiQmark

Posts: 24
Joined: 8/2/2014
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Through necessity, any D/s relationship I enter into is heavily biased towards mental control rather than physical.

I physically cannot tie anybody up, or use other restraints. I'd struggle with hoods, could do blindfolds or gags at a push I guess but it would be quite slow and comedic! Which might kill the mood somewhat.

What are your thoughts on your own ratios?

Mark.

Post #: 1

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 2:57:30 AM

subrosaDom

Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shouldiQmark

Through necessity, any D/s relationship I enter into is heavily biased towards mental control rather than physical.

I physically cannot tie anybody up, or use other restraints. I'd struggle with hoods, could do blindfolds or gags at a push I guess but it would be quite slow and comedic! Which might kill the mood somewhat.

What are your thoughts on your own ratios?

Mark.

I think the ratio is less important than the choice of partner. That is, there are subs who desire mental control, not physical. And vice-versa. Clearly, the former are more suitable for you -- and you for them! What matters are complementarities, not the ratio per se. Because there really is no right or wrong ratio. There is nothing wrong with a ratio of infinity (all mental) if you both desire it. It is personally harder for me to fathom a ratio of 0 (all physical, absolutely no mental control at all -- in a consensual environment), but I can envision a very small ratio. As there is no right or wrong here, all that really matters if not trying to fit the proverbial round peg into a square hole -- not just in terms of mental or physical matters but in terms of specific turn-ons and desires. There is no Platonic Ideal of a Dom, a sub or a slave. So you must find the one born to fit your own proclivities.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to shouldiQmark)

Post #: 2

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 4:25:27 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

I think the ratio is less important than the choice of partner. That is, there are subs who desire mental control, not physical. And vice-versa.
<snip>

OP, rather than thinking in ratios, I also agree this is about choosing the right sub partner who wants the D/s relationship dynamic more than engaging in BDSM activities.
The BDSM kinky stuff can be a subset of an overall D/s, but how can you pull off the physical without any D/s infrastructure, not even bare-bones (skeletal) authority roleplay between a Top and a bottom?

IMO, those Dominants seeking submissive females have a far better chance of finding a match with greater emphasis on the mental-emotional control aspects than those of us seeking submissive males.
In the off-chance that this may be insightful to any other Dominant than myself, here is an excerpt of a dialogue I had with my friend RM whose opinion I value; but like true friends do, he felt moved to give me a mini-wake-up call recently.
(Apology extended in advance if this gets lengthier than originally intended, but I need more coffee before I can streamline my thinking this morn!)

RM: You're looking for a man who will be interested in sex and being dominated, but practically no kinks... I'm going to put this out there as kindly as I can: YOU'RE DREAMING. Why? Because men physicalize domination. They fetishize it. Just like vanilla men fetishize standard sex to focus on breasts and fucking. Physical elements that surround and accentuate the thing they seek will become elements of focus. Men fetishize things. It's a psychology thing.

FO: I totally get the fetishy thing from the male angle. May not completely understand it thoroughly, but I know full well I had to bring in the BD(SM) into my marriage in order to get the D/s I wanted. Males need to physicalize things. Luckily, I can get into ritualistic behavior and have always been into symbology, so I do get the symbolism involved. Yes, I would be delusional if I thought I could reach point Z without going through the freaking alphabet of kinks and fetishes in the process. (Not all alphabet letters though, many get skipped.) The main thing is S&M. I'm not into it. Most Dommes are sadistic, even the lifestyle ones. That's something I won't compromise on because it does nothing for me except turn me off. I do have quite a number of neutral areas, meaning if my sub is into it, I'm willing to consider it; otherwise, it wouldn't come on the table.

RM: You seek a man who is into FLR and Femdom but no fetishes, and that is, quite simply, unrealistic in my opinion. You need to remember that men's minds don't really work that way and they will have fetishes etc. and finding men you are compatible with may mean accepting men's interests in fetishes. That doesn't mean you need to compromise finding a partner who is truly interested in a FLR, but I recommend you try to keep in mind male psychology in your search.

FO: Where the actual difficulty lies is with the verbal/vocal/aural end of the spectrum, getting a guy who can come on board with the mental aspect. Not just with domination, but in making that intellectual connection, as well as the emotional one. This guy had it going for him. Not in every way, but he was trainable and willing to learn how to adapt to the behavior I wanted from him. Maybe I should say teachable instead. We could get each other into an erotic headspace all day long by texting back and forth.

RM: I was being very vague with the word fetish, referring in general to fetishes and kinks. The issue being that it can often be a very blurry line between a fetish and a kink. I would say though that kinks lead to fetishes, and I suppose that was my point, but it's debatable. Lets be honest, most men have kinks, not fetishes, but most men have no idea what on earth they want. Those men out there craving to serve a woman on knees at her feet originally found something about that interesting - serving a woman - but they get so focused on that scene they have no way to understand what they ever really want. Porn-addled and all. Particularly sad. Some men are so tied in that fantasy they lack an understanding of what they're really looking for. Perhaps I'm an extremely self-aware person that I wanted to "get" myself where most men just spend their time jerking off to porn and not seeking *what about it* interests them.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to subrosaDom)

Post #: 3

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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I might argue that kinks lead to fetishes though. It's my understanding that a true fetish, something required to obtain arousal, starts very early in puberty. That the beginning experiences of sexuality are somehow linked to an item, and the brain becomes cross wired, so that the object is thereafter always required. Whereas kinks are things you enjoy and want, but don't need to be sexually aroused.

Ignoring this interesting tangent though, ratios don't matter. Compatibility does. I imagine there are women who don't need any play or sex, but I don't think it's a huge pool you have to choose from.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 4

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 9:17:50 AM

InHisHeart

Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
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I agree it's more about finding someone you're compatible with in mental control.

Sexually..........Master uses physical restraints on me most often but he also has me mentally restrain myself at times, I enjoy both. I'm someone who loves to be challenged and pushed past my limits both physically and mentally, him telling me what position to get into, mentally restrain myself and not move as if I were tied up or cuffed no matter what he's doing to me is a big challenge for me and tests my self-discipline. He never uses hoods or gags on me but he does use blindfolds. He seldom puts the blindfold on me, he gives it to me and makes me put it on myself. At times he makes me get, prepare and lay out whatever toys or devices he wants to use which puts me in a highly mentally controlled mode especially if there's an item he has me get that I'm not particularly fond of. When he has me under a no masturbation order and/or no orgasm order, it's all mental control. He doesn't believe in using chastity devices, his word is all I should need to restrain myself from masturbation which is not easy for me or not allowed to have orgasms with whatever he's doing to me is a huge challenge for me.

Non-sexually.........mental control is a big part of our D/s relationship, more so than physical control. With hard limits always respected, I do what he tells me to do whether I like doing it or not and with no complaining or arguing about it. There are rules I need to follow from rituals (how I greet him, bedtime routine, morning routine, etc.) to following whatever commands he gives me at any time during the day/night and know that there will be consequences to face if I don't follow the rules or do whatever random order he gives me.

I travel back and forth between NC and PA (all my family is in PA) and I come back often to see them. Even when he's home in NC and I'm back in PA, the D/s dynamics is still alive and well, rules and rituals that I can preform being 500 miles away from him are still enforced.

_____________________________

I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

(in reply to shouldiQmark)

Post #: 5

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 10:50:00 AM

SeekingTrinity

Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline

~FRing it~

I don't do math when it comes to relationships

I just found an incredible guy that is the perfect blend for me. And that was really all that I could ask for

(in reply to InHisHeart)

Post #: 6

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 11:21:39 AM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
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With anything, I believe that if you capture the brain the body will follow along. You can work around your physical limitations fairly easily, most of the bondage I put my slut into she could do herself and would if I told her to. The point being is that you shouldn't worry about the ratio, but focus on a partner that will accept you for who you are, good and bad. My slut accepts me for who I am, all of me, and she knows that I am painfully aware of the negative things about me and that I am working on some of them and some of them are just part of me. I have never had a more precious relationship with a woman before because of that. That I can tie her up and do things to her is merely the icing an an already delicious cake. Find a partner like that, the rest will take care of itself.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)

Post #: 7

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 2:03:33 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

I echo what most others are saying.

In our relationship we have very little D/s. We are bedroom only and I'm only the bottom cause I dislike leading in bed, I suppose the physical is more important to us.

I guess I don't fully know what you're asking...

(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 8

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 9:43:51 PM

BecomingV

Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shouldiQmark

Through necessity, any D/s relationship I enter into is heavily biased towards mental control rather than physical.

I physically cannot tie anybody up, or use other restraints. I'd struggle with hoods, could do blindfolds or gags at a push I guess but it would be quite slow and comedic! Which might kill the mood somewhat.

What are your thoughts on your own ratios?

Mark.

Mark, a few questions...

Do you have the full use of your arms, hands, lips, tongue? If so, that's physical enough, for most women!

Have you read threads on Fet about how others with physical limitations have adapted to BDSM activities? You know, no reason to reinvent the wheel. :)

Although posters echo, "What's a ratio got to to with it?" what is your answer to that question? What's the question beneath that question? For instance, are you trying to assess your odds?

Do you have any interest in hypnosis as it is used in BDSM: orgasm control, habit-formation or breaking and general, mental control?

(in reply to shouldiQmark)

Post #: 9

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/11/2014 10:38:05 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

FR~ I CRAVE mental, the physical only is the method towards desired result.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to BecomingV)

Post #: 10

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/12/2014 1:15:43 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

FR~ I CRAVE mental, the physical only is the method towards desired result.

Totally concur, must must must have the mental domination. For real, though--not into mindfucks.
I should have been as succinct as you were, GM.

Des, I had a whole response inserted after my friend's comments re fetishes & kinks that I left out deliberately since my post was already overly wordy and getting off track!
In it I took your same basic position, about how fetishes require a fetish object (kinks do not), fetishes are core arousal fixation(s); more ritualized in nature, expression & manifestation than kinks are, etc. Yes, I have read clinical accounts of relatively early childhood experiences which triggered fetish responses during puberty or else later in life.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to GoddessManko)

Post #: 11

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/12/2014 5:02:37 AM

catize

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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~~FAST REPLY~~
For me, it is all mental, for if I was not inspired to submit to my dominant, I could not allow him to physically restrain or 'hurt' me. There are many things I would like him to do to my body but if he chose not to or couldn't, it is the mental aspect of D/s that gets my rocks off the best.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 12

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/12/2014 5:30:31 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shouldiQmark

Through necessity, any D/s relationship I enter into is heavily biased towards mental control rather than physical.

I physically cannot tie anybody up, or use other restraints. I'd struggle with hoods, could do blindfolds or gags at a push I guess but it would be quite slow and comedic! Which might kill the mood somewhat.

What are your thoughts on your own ratios?

Mark.

I have a 7 to 1 ratio.

(in reply to shouldiQmark)

Post #: 13

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/12/2014 6:52:03 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

Like most on here, I don't look at it in terms of a ratio. If I am correct in my analysis of what your asking beneath the surface of your post, you're trying to see which side posters come down on most often...physical or mental.

For me, as I get older, the mental aspect comes into play more. That doesn't mean I don't indulge in the physical but I've always been a mental type of dominant. I like the mental gymnastics of figuring out how best to use the physical aspects of what I enjoy doing to a submissive , what she enjoys having done to her AND what she cringed at having done to her to make physical play good for us both. But again, the play doesn't work...or work as well...without some mental processing. And that includes all the mental components of the relationship outside the play. As InHisHeart noted (and others) there's much more to any relationship other than the physical. While the physical is important...and believe me, NO ONE would stand up for that importance more than me...a lot of what makes the physical work as well as it does is allllll those mental strands. Control, leadership/submission, concern, interest, shared laughter and tears, struggling together (even when opposed initially) both inside and outside the relationship...all those things and more bind the couple AND heighten the satisfaction of the play.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 14

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/12/2014 10:31:05 PM

Subano

Posts: 101
Joined: 1/15/2013
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Isn't it all mental?

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 15

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/13/2014 12:36:59 AM

orgasmdenial12

Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
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My way of thinking about it is D/s (mental) vs. s&m (physical). My physical ratio is very high, I'm more of a sadomasochist than a submissive. I'd say it's something like 2 : 8 or 1 : 9. The mental aspects do very little for me, beyond establishing a framework for the physical aspects to take place.

(in reply to shouldiQmark)

Post #: 16

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/13/2014 8:21:11 AM

shouldiQmark

Posts: 24
Joined: 8/2/2014
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I'm coming back into this discussion late, but it strikes me that really I need not worry.

If I'm reading it right, the general consensus is that the mental side of things is more important than physical (orgasmdenial12 notwithstanding) - the old adage of 'win over the mind, and the body will follow voluntarily' holding true. That sounds good to me. Catize makes that point ' For me, it is all mental, for if I was not inspired to submit to my dominant, I could not allow him to physically restrain or 'hurt' me.'

To answer a couple of specific points above:

To BecomingV initially -
Almost full use of my arms (I could hug/hold/cuddle etc.),
Hands? No. At least I have no grip, no finger movement - to hold anything I use 2 hands.
Mouth, lips, tongue - absolutely yes.
No, I've not seen any threads on here or FetLife about BDSM & physical limitations but I'll be looking now!
You may be right in your penultimate point - maybe I am trying to assess my chances of finding someone.
But my initial thoughts were, as I have no grip how would I restrain / collar / tie / blindfold someone?

So then I come to InHisHeart’s reply – and the fact that her Master instructs her to get certain objects together, or to put on a blindfold herself. The rules and rituals, how to greet him, random instructions during the day – that’s what I personally believe would be a dominant aspect of my relationship.

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

Post #: 17

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/13/2014 2:33:29 PM

InHisHeart

Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
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My former Dom/husband was in a wheelchair the last 6 years of our relationship but that didn't change the daily D/s lifestyle we lived at all.

The physical part of our relationship of course did change due to his physical limitations but we were able to work around some things, improvise and some things we simply could no longer do but he was still my Master in and out of the bedroom. The important part was both of us accepting and adjusting to the changes which wasn't easy after 14 years of having no physical limitations but we worked through it. It was frustrating at times for both of us, much more frustrating for him though.

If you're looking for a D/s relationship and not just a play partner, you're physical limitations won't prevent you from having a D/s relationship in and out of the bedroom. With kinks and play in the relationship, you work with what you have, don't worry about what you can't do, an imagination is a wonderful thing, use it and a sub who is with you for you, together you'll find your way.

_____________________________

I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

(in reply to shouldiQmark)

Post #: 18

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/13/2014 2:33:54 PM

BecomingV

Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline

I was thinking of the amputee fetish... I forget the technical name for it. But, in our local community, some participants in that fetish attend home parties and clubs. I know they came from Fet. So, if you don't find a Fet group dedicated to your particular physical challenges, I'd suggest reading the amputee threads, because they do kink, with adaptations. You might pick up some tips on physical acts, done differently, or on the many ways to express mental domination.

As to "your odds" - I believe that we all have the exact love life that we choose to have. Kind of a "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear" philosophy. That means that I think anyone's odds are dependent upon their readiness to accept love. Now... sex and kink... well, that may require being a bit more creative, but common sense tells us that if you want to date a golfer, go to the golf course. In BDSM, socialize with the community and a friend of a friend, may be the ONE for you! (whether online or in real life)

Speaking for myself, if someone writes to me and isn't a "match" but is a good person, so far as I can know via the web, I will connect that person with another community member if I think they might match. You never know...

(in reply to shouldiQmark)

Post #: 19

RE: Physical : Mental ratio - 8/13/2014 2:37:06 PM

BecomingV

Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InHisHeart

If you're looking for a D/s relationship and not just a play partner, you're physical limitations won't prevent you from having a D/s relationship in and out of the bedroom. With kinks and play in the relationship, you work with what you have, don't worry about what you can't do, an imagination is a wonderful thing, use it and a sub who is with you for you, together you'll find your way.

InHisHeart - Excellent post! I completely agree that it's best to focus on what you CAN do, and not waste time thinking of what can't be done. Also, leaving room for how the submissive may contribute to the relationship is a beautiful thought, too.

(in reply to InHisHeart)

Post #: 20

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