RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape

RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 6:19:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Wait, steal something from a store, disobey orders from armed police when they arrive, bait them, and then make a move toward an officer. Wow. And nobody thinks this is about Darwin Awards? Yeah you callous piece of crap this guy needed killing. Do you not understand there was something clearly mentally wrong with this person? He needed killing? Why did he need killing? Where did the idea that he needed killing come from? Yeah, that would be you. K. From you, or did some one hack your account again. Read your own post.

DomKen -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 6:26:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Wait, steal something from a store, disobey orders from armed police when they arrive, bait them, and then make a move toward an officer. Wow. And nobody thinks this is about Darwin Awards? K. Taking your description of events at face value, precisely how does all this justify killing the poor guy? Even if this person was making "a move' towards the two officers, does this justify killing him? Not only is the guy outnumbered but presumably the cops are also armed with nightsticks, Tasers and (possibly) disabling gas sprays. They are also trained in self defence and subduing troublesome and aggressive people. So they had plenty of non-lethal options available to them, which they declined to use. So, again, how does all of this somehow justify killing this guy? I've been looking ever since Ferguson hit the news, and I can't find any mention of police (in that area) being armed with Tasers. I'm not saying that they're not, but I can't find anything that says that they are either. Every police officer is supposed to be equipped with some less lethal weapon. Ferguson is being sued over them killing someone with a taser a few years back.

DomKen -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 6:31:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said Tuesday that both of the officers opened fire on Powell when he came within a three or four feet of them holding a knife "*in an overhand grip." But the newly released cell phone footage undermines the statement, showing Powell approaching the cops, but not coming as close as was reported, with his hands at his side.* The officers began shooting within 15 seconds of their arrival, hitting Powell with a barrage of bullets. I'll give you that he wasn't holding the knife the way they described, his arms were at his sides... Having an overhand grip on the knife does not mean his arms were raised. K. if you watched one of the vids, the officer that was on camera during the press conference actually showed that, he said the dead man was holding the knife in an overhand grip and he raised his own hand/arm to demonstrate.. so yeah, they deliberately lied.. Yes, the chief who was making the statement did make that sort of motion with his arm. Now tell me, how does that one inconsistency demonstrably change what happened? Powell advanced on two cops, with a knife in his hand, yelling "shoot me shoot me!" As the chief said, he first approached the front of the vehicle, then stopped, then turned and went straight towards the passenger. They didn't shoot till he was close enough to roll to a stop at the passenger's feet. So please explain how the exact position his arm was in makes such a vast difference in the encounter? Because if he had the knife in the grip described with his hand at his side rather than raised to stab he was no threat to the officers. They could have backed up and resolved the situation non lethally.

ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 6:47:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Because if he had the knife in the grip described with his hand at his side rather than raised to stab he was no threat to the officers. They could have backed up and resolved the situation non lethally. Ummm, no. All it would do would make it slightly slower to stab someone. You'd have to bring your arm up and then back down, rather then just down. A few tenths of a second difference. I'll stipulate that knife fights can come down to tenths of a second, especially against a man with a gun, but it certainly doesn't make him "no threat".

Lucylastic -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 6:59:01 AM)
Apart from the fact that suicide is in itself against the law...killing someone who is mentally unstable is not ok in my book but you are asserting things I havent mentioned or alluded to, so get on with your bad self. Guilty till dead...no questions asked.

ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:10:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Apart from the fact that suicide is in itself against the law...killing someone who is mentally unstable is not ok in my book but you are asserting things I havent mentioned or alluded to, so get on with your bad self. Guilty till dead...no questions asked. I'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about? Are you insinuating that no one can talk about something unless you've already mentioned or alluded to it yourself?

DomKen -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:12:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Because if he had the knife in the grip described with his hand at his side rather than raised to stab he was no threat to the officers. They could have backed up and resolved the situation non lethally. Ummm, no. All it would do would make it slightly slower to stab someone. You'd have to bring your arm up and then back down, rather then just down. A few tenths of a second difference. I'll stipulate that knife fights can come down to tenths of a second, especially against a man with a gun, but it certainly doesn't make him "no threat". If he raised his arm, then they could have shot him. They were wearing vests so to harm them with a knife so small it wasn't visible on the video he would have had to slash the cop's throat which would have meant not just getting closer but raising the knife well above waist level. They knew they had done wrong or they wouldn't have lied about the entire incident.

Kirata -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:14:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Because if he had the knife in the grip described with his hand at his side rather than raised to stab he was no threat to the officers. They could have backed up and resolved the situation non lethally. Yeah, except that stabbing is neither the only way to attack with a knife nor the final word in evaluating a grip style... The advantages to the Reverse Edge Out grip technique are many. First, unless the elbow is extended and locked straight, the blade cutting edge always faces the enemy, no matter where the hand is located (unless it's behind the knife user!). When the fist moves as in a cross punch, the blade and cutting edge can be raked across the enemy in a slashing motion. Second, like an ice pick, tremendous force can be brought to bear on the point, not only when oriented downward, but when an enemy is behind or beside. Third, the grip technique allows capping (shown in the photo at left) where the thumb (and thus force) is brought to bear on the butt of the knife handle, in this case at the rear bolster. This also increases the security of the knife grip. A fourth advantage of this grip technique is that the knife can be oriented with cutting edge to enemy even when guarding with the forearm. Many of my military clients prefer this grip technique built into their handles. A fifth advantage is that the "elbows bent" position that is usually assumed with this type of grip technique can be more powerful and defensive than an extended and reaching forearm, which is unprotected and may be easily trapped and fractured. ~Source Have a nice day. K.

cloudboy -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:15:53 AM)
One thing we have learned about shooters -- their version of the event is told in a self-serving manner. The dead guy can never contradict them. I'm just speechless. That is f*cked up.

Lucylastic -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:16:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Apart from the fact that suicide is in itself against the law...killing someone who is mentally unstable is not ok in my book but you are asserting things I havent mentioned or alluded to, so get on with your bad self. Guilty till dead...no questions asked. I'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about? Are you insinuating that no one can talk about something unless you've already mentioned or alluded to it yourself? Im not insinuating anything of the kind, unwad your panties your post... quote: partial.... As to "suicide by cop" what's your point? The officers didn't hop in their vehicle and decide, hey let's go kill someone. Powell made a decision to rob a store, stand just down the block waiting for the police, then come at them with a knife shouting "shoot me, shoot me already!" I'll grant you, he was clearly disturbed, but you make that sound like it should make someone more likely to want to get close enough for him to stab. I don't know about you, but I stay as far as possible from crazy men with knives. Police have hard enough jobs. I don't think they need to be made harder by insisting they have to get close enough to grab a guy with a knife who seems to want to die. Read....inwardly digest.....if it still doesnt make sense... tough

DomKen -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:20:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Because if he had the knife in the grip described with his hand at his side rather than raised to stab he was no threat to the officers. They could have backed up and resolved the situation non lethally. Yeah, except that stabbing is neither the only way to attack with a knife nor the final word in evaluating a grip style... So now you're arguing that the deranged individual was an expert knife fighter?

Lucylastic -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:21:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy One thing we have learned about shooters -- their version of the event is told in a self-serving manner. The dead guy can never contradict them. I'm just speechless. That is f*cked up. exactly CB he doesnt get a chance to do anything now... convenient...

tj444 -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:26:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted Her point was, usually when the police show up, they have to chase the suspect. They weren't expecting him to be standing there waiting for them, much less coming at them. they are trained cops, and since suicide by cop does happen, why would they be surprised by him waiting for them? they should be trained to expect that and expect the unexpected.. When the guy is weaving back and forth and yelling for them to shoot him, they should have figured out that it was SBC and not a "normal" robbery of a couple of sodas.. So I don't buy your girlfriends reasoning on that..

Kirata -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:26:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So now you're arguing that the deranged individual was an expert knife fighter? No Ken, I was arguing that you don't know what you're talking about. Get it now? Glad to help. [:)] K.

GoddessManko -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 7:29:04 AM)
FR: His hands are in his pockets and he's approaching the officer whether menacingly or not. I think this was a good call on the part of law enforcement, sorry. Can people stop crying foul every time there is an altercation between a civilian and a cop? I don't know, it kind of makes more legitimate cases where you sympathize lose their luster from the point of objectivity. Just an opinion here, don't shoot the messenger. Thankfully this one was caught on camera so hopeully he doesn't lose his badge for it. :) PS: Wow, another thread about a cop shooting? Really guys? This stuff is a little unhealthy to dwell on, no? Don't mind me, ensue. :)

Musicmystery -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 8:01:26 AM)
People aren't "crying foul every time there is an altercation between a civilian and a cop." They're "crying foul" when a cop kills a civilian who isn't carrying. It's kind of different . . .

GoddessManko -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 8:13:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery People aren't "crying foul every time there is an altercation between a civilian and a cop." They're "crying foul" when a cop kills a civilian who isn't carrying. It's kind of different . . . Yea but his hands are in the pockets of his hooded sweater, that's TOTALLY different from hands raised WHILE APPROACHING as a cop would typically request before firing. So unless the officer is psychic, that's not a viable argument.

eulero83 -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 8:24:33 AM)
FR I second what peonforher said, 20 seconds no attempt to calm down the sitution, and a life is gone, it's aliene to me too, and very shocking. I know the drill so there's not needed to point out the cops are doing a dangerouse job, I just expressed a personal opinion.

thishereboi -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 9:58:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So now you're arguing that the deranged individual was an expert knife fighter? No Ken, I was arguing that you don't know what you're talking about. Get it now? Glad to help. [:)] K. Well he still seems to be under the impression you said the guy needed killing, so I am going to go with no. What puzzles me is why any of us bother trying to talk to him.

ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: Kajime powells death by cop caught on tape (8/21/2014 10:22:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Because if he had the knife in the grip described with his hand at his side rather than raised to stab he was no threat to the officers. They could have backed up and resolved the situation non lethally. Ummm, no. All it would do would make it slightly slower to stab someone. You'd have to bring your arm up and then back down, rather then just down. A few tenths of a second difference. I'll stipulate that knife fights can come down to tenths of a second, especially against a man with a gun, but it certainly doesn't make him "no threat". If he raised his arm, then they could have shot him. They were wearing vests so to harm them with a knife so small it wasn't visible on the video he would have had to slash the cop's throat which would have meant not just getting closer but raising the knife well above waist level. They knew they had done wrong or they wouldn't have lied about the entire incident. The knife was reported as being a "steak knife". I don't know what that means to you, but all of mine are 4-5" long and serrated. Not a huge knife, but not tiny either. Certainly long enough to go through a vest, they're not all that thick. Even a level III-A is only about 10mm. Most are not stab resistant. Your average provides almost no protection from a knife, that's just not how they work. Unless you hit a trauma plate, which isn't something normally worn day to day, you might as well be cutting canvas. If you hold a half dozen canvas shopping bags against your chest and let someone stab you, it'll do about as much good. Kevlar will stop slashing attacks, at least a few, but it won't stop a stabbing one. And you insisting that someone needs to wait till the knife is raised to be in "danger" is ludicrous. Someone who knows what they're doing, or is just fast, who gets within 3-5 feet will kill you several times over before you know what's happening. Check out video from a prison sometime, where a guy is getting shanked. You'll usually see a fast blitz and then the person being stabbed rapid-fire, 5-6 times in the first few seconds. You only have to move your arm a few inches forward and back, it's scary how fast that minor motion can be.

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