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Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/3/2014 1:49:50 PM   
shiftyw


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Background- I have a goiter, its huge and gross, I am always close to hypo- but I feel in general like I go between hyper and hypo a lot. My antibodies have been tested, it isn't Hashi's "yet" (my endo's words).

I'm pushing to switch to Armor because I think I have an allergy to my levothoroxine- I keep getting strange hives, tummy troubles, my symptoms (fatigue, weight gain, hair and nails are brittle as all get out) are NOT under control.

I'm wondering if anyone else has tried Armor vs. Levothoroxine and what your results were?
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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/3/2014 5:58:17 PM   
amativedame


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I always had issues on Levothoroxine. I was on Synthroid for years about 7 years. Had horrible nausea and vomiting the whole time. They always say your body will adjust.. but mine never did. I had better luck with some of the other formulations such as levoxyl, and went from nausea and vomiting to just nausea on that particular brand. Are you taking the generic? Is trying or getting some samples of the actual synthroid a possibility for you? I ended up having a high deductive plan for almost two years and I couldn't afford the first $1500 for prescriptions. He happened to not check the box on the script he gave me for when the samples ran out and I didn't think it would matter. He caught me though, when I came back 6 months later and my levels were a little low. He asked me if I was taking the generic or forgetting pills. I stopped taking the generic and my levels tested fine.

As to the armor, it was one of the things I had ever asked my endo about when I met him. His first issue was that there had been previous issues with manufacturing. He also brought up issues with possible dosage varriations and his patients have had better success on other drugs. His suggestion was tirosint instead. It is a gel and has no additives, totally changed the way I felt and no more nausea! It brought me the closest to normal I have felt since it began. We ended up switching me off when I was struggling to afford it. Its not horribly expensive but my script requires two packages and that means 2 co pays. I think their dosing only goes to either 150 or 175. I've been on Synthroid again since then and I plan on asking to switch back again to tirosint next month.

I always struggle with the brittle nails and thinning hair. ALWAYS. My thyroid levels never changed that to be honest. Honestly for the hair and nails I would really just recommend a hair/skin/nails supplement. I am taking one by nature made these days and its improved my nails and hair greatly. I usually have issues sticking with vitamins and that one is a small gel cap with no smell so I haven't had to struggle so much. Proof is in the eyelashes... they are so thick and long it drives me crazy sometimes. He has helped with the fine hair/loss of hair with aldactone, which does make a big difference in my hair growth when I take it like he recommends.

Fatigue wise, have they tested your vitamin levels at all? He is always running a vitamin D level on me. That can cause issues with fatigue and achyness as he is constantly reminding me. That may not be your particular issue, but it might be something to see if they will peruse for you and it is easy to add on to the lap work they will run anyway. You didn't mention what kind of stomach issues you are having but that could easily lead to vitamin deficiencies causing other things.




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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/4/2014 12:21:51 PM   
shiftyw


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They've tested everything, I was even tested for lupus and Cushing's syndrome.

Because of the hives and tummy trouble, he believes I'm allergic to the dyes or synthetic chemicals in the levthoroxine.
The issue is I'm within normal range, but not ideal range for me. I also could develop hashimotos which is a whole other barrel of fish.

I am on generic...but I'll ask him about the gel stuff that sounds great. I'm on a low dose mostly to keep my thyroid from growing any bigger (the left lobe is about the size of a golf ball on bad days), I suspect within two years they'll call it hashis, I've never had my t3 tested and keep pushing for it but I could need that too...

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/6/2014 12:27:56 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Have you had your parathyroid tested? Although completely seperate glands, they are close in proximity and the parathyroid can cause a lot of those problems (as well as the thyroid). The parathyroid essentially controls calcium in your blood. When it goes wonky, memory, sleep, depression and anxiety problem present or are exacerbated. Abnormal PTH levels also cause low vitamin D levels.

With such a large nodule (sorry, I hate the word "goiter"), have you talked with your endo about having your thyroid removed? I know that the nodule on my right lobe sends me hyper not hypo, but the meds for it are not good for long term use, so Oct. 3rd, I'm having my thyroid removed. Since either way I have toke some kind of thyroid meds for the rest of my life, my logic was that at least I could get rid of the bi-annual ultrasounds and biopsies to make sure the nodule was still benign (they can change).

If I remember correctly you are in NJ. I would be happy to give you the name of my surgeon. He is in Morristowwn, and a specialist in thyroid, parathyroid and oncology. His opinion might at the least give you some more to think aboutg. Oh, and he is very good working with patients who have anxiety issues as well.

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/6/2014 2:00:10 PM   
shiftyw


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I'm no longer in NJ, I've moved to NH.

I have talked to my endo- because it is "benign" and not interfering with my eating or breathing it would be a cosmetic surgery- and my insurance won't cover it. =/ Wouldn't it be great if I didn't have to wait for it to interfere?

My mom has hypoparathyroidism from having hers out- so they also tested my parathyroids- they are fine- but it has for sure made me question having it taken out a great deal. Her hypoparathryoidism is, in a lot of ways, more dangerous than the cancer she had- she had a young inexperienced surgeon at a teaching school and we believe that they did not do as good a job as they could have and her para's "never turned back on"- so she has low calcium and has to watch her vitamin d and get poked all the time.

I hope you are not at Morristown Endocrine Associates- I HATED my endo there. He told me I was insane when I said I felt like my goiter sometimes changes size, which now two other endo's have told me is completely possible in my case (its filled with fluid). He also told me my rapid weight gain- and exhaustion were just because I wasn't exercising and he totally wouldn't even LOOK at my food journal.

Current endo is going to try Armour on me. I'm likely to end up with Hashi's its just "not detectable yet" and Armour is supposed to help with T3.

Thanks so much though!

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/6/2014 9:03:48 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Your insurance actually told it would be cosmetic? Nothing inside your body is cosmetic. I have no problems breathing or eating, but I know it will go through my insurance. You might want to check into that. Also, doctors regularly "say" surgery is necessary because of interference. Look how many nose jobs are done for deviated septums!

The doctor is actually IN Morristown Memorial, and isn't an endocrinologist exactly, but an oncologist who also specializes in thyroid surgery. The first surgeon I saw was an ass, so I went back to my endo, and told him I didn't like him, and he recommended this guy. SUPER nice. We went over everything, including that I didn't want a partial thyroidectomy because the whole concept of having to wait and see what kind of levels I had with just the left (which could potentially include those damned hot flashes/night sweats coming back) was just too much. He said that based on my history, it supported total removal.

As for the parathyroids, we have four, each the size of a grain of rice. Strangely, we can function just fine with one. Surgeon told me that after he removes my thyroid, he will find which parathyroid has the tumor (which is the only thing that makes them act up, even though nearly all tumors on the para are benign), remove that one parathyroid gland, wait ten minutes (while I'm still under anesthesia), recheck my calcium levels to make sure he got all of the problem and then stitch me back up.

So you aren't local anymore. Is your family still here? Honestly, I would be happy to let you stay here with me for a couple days to go see him. I know what suffering with a thyroid problem is like and when no one will listen because according to the blood work, you fall "within range." It sucks! I'm so glad that I found my endo who doesn't fall for that crap. Since I've been seeing him, my diabetes is so much better and I'm getting the right treatment for my thyroid.

If I think of anything that might help, I'll let you know.

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/6/2014 9:13:05 PM   
subrosaDom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Background- I have a goiter, its huge and gross, I am always close to hypo- but I feel in general like I go between hyper and hypo a lot. My antibodies have been tested, it isn't Hashi's "yet" (my endo's words).

I'm pushing to switch to Armor because I think I have an allergy to my levothoroxine- I keep getting strange hives, tummy troubles, my symptoms (fatigue, weight gain, hair and nails are brittle as all get out) are NOT under control.

I'm wondering if anyone else has tried Armor vs. Levothoroxine and what your results were?


The manufacturing claim with Armour is a red herring. Yes, there was a problem, it was a 1-off, and it has nothing to do with the actual biochemistry. The smartest doctor I know absolutely recommends Armour, not levo-. The argument is that all you need is T4 is the argument for levo- and that it will convert to T3. But that's not always true. Some people have problems converting and they need T3 straightaway. Yes, there is a lot of controversy on this, and you will find many endos who simply will not prescribe anything but Synthroid. These are your by-the-book guys who never think outside the box. Hypo- used to managed exclusively by T3, so it's not like this has never worked before or that if you take T3 you'll drop dead from renal failure. Based on my medical knowledge (which isn't bad) as well as the opinions of some really great doctors, I would absolutely go with Armour.

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/7/2014 3:22:36 AM   
shiftyw


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No my family was local to NH.

At the hypoparathyroidism conference my mom and I attended, put on by NORD, they stated that while some can survive with just one, some are just wonky and never come back. Others are born with all four and they just don't work correctly.

While I appreciate the offer to stay, I actually like my endo here and he has agreed upon letting me switch to Armour. The problem I have, is both my antibodies and my tsh are within normal range, at this point- so while not optimal for me- I don't have any reason to get surgery yet, according to my insurance.

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/7/2014 3:30:47 AM   
subrosaDom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

No my family was local to NH.

At the hypoparathyroidism conference my mom and I attended, put on by NORD, they stated that while some can survive with just one, some are just wonky and never come back. Others are born with all four and they just don't work correctly.

While I appreciate the offer to stay, I actually like my endo here and he has agreed upon letting me switch to Armour. The problem I have, is both my antibodies and my tsh are within normal range, at this point- so while not optimal for me- I don't have any reason to get surgery yet, according to my insurance.



Many of the standardized levels considered normal aren't normal. Rather they are indicative of something wrong and possibly of early-stage hashimoto's. Most endos are incredibly naive about this and stick with the laboratory ranges. There's a lot of interesting information on the web about this, but again, I've this confirmed by doctors (real MDs, not NDs) whom I trust.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/7/2014 6:22:25 AM   
shiftyw


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Yah. I know. I have a physical soon, I'm going to push for alllllll the bloodwork, cause if it isn't hashi's I'm getting paranoid my symptoms are for something else, like lupus. But I have been gaining weight while cutting calories, so it's crazy.

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/8/2014 1:17:34 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Well, your situation certainly makes me grateful for my insurance who doesn't have such bizarre rules. The goiter alone is enough to warrant the surgery.

I'm still learning about the hypo meds (still a month before I will need them) and the main thing that I have learned is that it must be the same manufacturer all the time, whether brand or generic. Apparently, when it comes to thyroid, even the inert ingredients can set things wrong.

For me this was important because my pharmacy regularly uses different generics of the same thing. I'm constantly getting my pills with the bright green label telling me how it looks different but is the same medication, lol.

Like subrosaDom said though, those "ranges" are guidelines, not written in stone (at least they aren't supposed to be taken that way). I know my levels made me seem just a "little" hyper, but the methamozal has been like a miracle from God the way it has helped and I'm on a very small dose.

Just to give you an example of how always following those ranges can be problematic, or even dangerous: My friend's normal body temperature runs at about 96 degrees. So where ordinarily, a temperature of 99 would be low grade, on him, it is reaching a serious level.

That's why I always stress the importance of knowing your individual numbers. I'm sure you know how to read the blood work by now. Try keeping track of what the numbers are when you feel good and feel like crap. Stangely enough, I usually have my last three month blood work in my purse at all times. But I have come up against ER personnel who are so stupid, those records are all I have to prove my point.

But if you can look at your thyroid levels for when you feel good and when you don't, it might help you figure out the "range" that is yours, not the entire population of the world.

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/12/2014 6:55:18 PM   
shiftyw


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From: The Shire
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So- I've been on Armour for only five days- its completely possible all this is placebo-

but
a) my stomach has stopped jumping from one digestive extreme to the next.
b) my energy is SO MUCH BETTER. I can barely believe it. I'm actually back in the gym because I don't want to nap everyday.
c) I'm less hungry- probably because I don't need to fuel my body for energy anymore.
d) I'm not fucking itchy. I've been itchy all year and no one had any answers- finally I read about some side effects of levothoroxine.

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/13/2014 1:06:37 PM   
LafayetteLady


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I don't think it is a placebo effect at all. I know that within a week of starting the methamazole, my hot flashes and night sweats were nearly gone.

I'm really glad that you are feeling better. I know I have to read up on all these different thyroid drugs before October 3rd, so I can make a more educated decision. As I mentioned before, all I know at the moment is that whatever is taken (even if generic), it has to be the same manufacturer all the time.

Have you checked out Stop the Thyroid Madness? If nothing else, you can find other people who know what you are going through.

Let's cross our fingers that the Armor keeps working!

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/13/2014 6:01:07 PM   
shiftyw


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I loveee stop the thyroid madness!

Also Mary Shoman is a great resource if you haven't discovered her already!
Best of luck on your surgery! I hope all goes well!
If you have any questions please feel free to contact me- while I can't promise to have answers- when you start to feel like your symptoms are making you nuts- at least an understanding ear is good.

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RE: Armor Vs. Levothyroxine - 9/14/2014 6:18:43 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Actually, I'm still not aware of many symptoms for the UNDER active (or in my case, soon to be non-existent) thyroid. OVER active? I'm your girl, lol. Even though my numbers are only slightly out of the ridiculous "range," the symptoms I suffered were horrible. Then add the pesky parathyroid tumor and what a freaking mess.

It figures that the two glands that can cause the most havoc in a body, the thyroid and parathyroid, both went wonky on me. But two weeks from this coming Friday, I will find out the other end of the spectrum.

Once I get my head wrapped around the whole thing, I probably will send you a question filled email. At the moment, I'm just enjoying having internet at home and not having to access from my phone. Still, when I just looked at the calendar, I realized I need to get my ass in gear on some research.

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