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RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 8:01:00 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CentralFLDomCPL

Well, if you actually HEARD the "didn't build that" quote and UNDERSTOOD it, you would know your entire premise is incorrect.

What President Obama ACTUALLY said was no one built a business by themselves. As an example, if you built a factory, there had to be a road leading to your property. You didn't build that road. There had to be trucks to bring the construction materials to your property. You didn't build the trucks. There had to be SO many other different things already in place, just for you to be able to build your business. You didn't build them, but without them, you couldn't build your business. He NEVER said the person didn't build their business, just that he couldn't have done it without the infrastructure to make it possible.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. That's why Faux News (unfair and unbalanced) is always misquoting people and taking things out of context.

Ah, the familiar chorus among Obama's few remaining fans

He didnt say what you just heard him say.

Fast becoming, Hillary didnt say what you just heard her say

Why was the following such a huge applause line in that same speech

quote:

I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

That was a rhetorical question, because the answer is clear

His hand-picked fans in the audience were applauding because the message was clear

If someone owns a business, has accumulated wealth, the state has every right to redistribute that wealth because it belongs to the state

You heard him promising "free government money" if you were in his target audience

However if that Marxist message doesnt appeal to you, you heard nothing

Business as usual in far left la-la land

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to CentralFLDomCPL)

Post #: 121

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 8:07:01 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, we know the nutsuckers heard him say what he didn't say, and with their free market communism redistribution of wealth they still felch the corporate military-industrial complex horseshit.

They love to destroy America.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 122

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 8:54:58 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Hence the extra Medicare payroll deduction

Youre really off tangent here, this matter deserves its own thread because its such ancient history and though I seriously doubt your story Ive got to give you some credit because I think you are trying to come somewhere near an on-topic reply, and thats much better than most of your friends here can manage

Re your post specifically, the poor poor old people, medicare, and those cruel conservatives from the 1980s...

Romney's right: Obamacare cuts Medicare by $716 billion. Here's how:

< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/1/2014 8:55:32 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 123

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 9:12:14 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

So you want government to foot the bill TO INSURERS.

OK, own it communist.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 124

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 9:36:14 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Speaking of communists in bed with Big Insurance...

Obama's "Affordable Care Act" is causing double-digit increases (for those who Obamacare forces to buy their own insurance)

(Those with "subsidized" or taxpayer-funded plans pay a little less, because others pay their way)

Republican Senate, here we come

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 125

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 9:41:29 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, lets go single payer national. Fold the insurance companies.

Yeah, nutsuckers taking the house will not change a thing. Still nothing happening with nutsuckers, they are in a happy borrow and spend environment.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 126

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 9:42:35 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, lets go single payer national. Fold the insurance companies.

There you go

Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 127

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 9:48:31 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

let your feebleminded nutsuckerism asswipe spew, Tommie. You have yet to own your communism though.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 128

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 10:10:57 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Thank you for the invite mnot

But I wont be joining you down in the sewers today

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 129

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 11:52:48 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Thank you for the invite mnot

But I wont be joining you down in the sewers today

Too high of a climb for you?

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 130

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 12:54:11 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Thank you for the invite mnot

But I wont be joining you down in the sewers today

Too high of a climb for you?

Project much?

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 131

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 5:04:01 PM

YouName

Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline

I wonder why you folks discuss these type of things when you're unwilling to relate to each other or learn from each other...

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 132

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 7:56:35 PM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Still no explanation for the magic money, I see.

Its leftists who believe in magic money

You have it on the money, there.

The so-called 'conservatives' have no delusions as to where the money comes from. It comes from people who actually produce things and services for society, and that is what they target to abstract wealth from, the people who actually produce the wealth in the first place by doing something useful for society.

Their skimming and scalping off of labor does nothing for the market economy unless they acknowledge the value of the worker and the consumer in the first place. Their skimming and scalping off the workers and consumers is in fact a constant drag on the economy.

We've tried the experiment of giving more to the already-wealthy, and we've yet to dig our way out of that fiasco.

There is indeed no 'magic money,' as the Republicans and so-called "conservatives" understand very well that money is something to be extracted from those that do the actual work. They've been doing a bang-up job of reducing the actual producers to near penury in the last 15 years or so, and it doesn't matter who is president, and just STFU about that and turn off the radio anyway. TY.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 133

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 8:08:57 PM

Edwynn

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Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

Real wages (i.e. inflation adjusted wages) declined 4.7 % from 2000 to 2006, and real wages have been stagnant for 20 years. (yes, you read that right).

All this while GPD has risen over the same time span, even after the dive and recovery from the financial fiasco.

You, of course, don't have the first clue how any of this came about. But there is no question that you, with out anything resembling a clue, will jump in on this with a comment ASAP.

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 134

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 8:11:38 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

There's a book out now that describes "fissured employment" wherein companies require specs for a given work product or service, and then sub out the task to brutal subcontractors who have more latitude to squeeze workers. An example was the brutal working conditions of Apple suppliers in China.

The result is that employers now can keep a distance from their employees --- not having to worry about their salaries, working conditions, or employer-employee legal obligations.

Anyway these new "fissured arrangements" allow for companies to make even greater profits off their Capital and Business enterprises.

Examples of fissured employment include: maids in hotels (don't work for the hotel), support staff in restaurants (don't work for the restaurants), suppliers in supply chains, etc. Many employers have no idea who works for them. An Ivy League school was building a campus in Qatar and the workers lived 12 to a room getting paid 270 dollars a month working seven days a week - 12 hours a day....

"For much of the twentieth century, large companies employing many workers formed the bedrock of the U.S. economy. Today, on the list of big business’s priorities, sustaining the employer-worker relationship ranks far below building a devoted customer base and delivering value to investors. As David Weil’s groundbreaking analysis shows, large corporations have shed their role as direct employers of the people responsible for their products, in favor of outsourcing work to small companies that compete fiercely with one another. The result has been declining wages, eroding benefits, inadequate health and safety conditions, and ever-widening income inequality."

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674725447

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 11/1/2014 8:16:41 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 135

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/1/2014 9:38:12 PM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

BTW, I don't mean to demean what some are doing in this economy, in this society, to render services or goods that actually benefit another company, or in a second handed way, society.

I find myself bordering on the simplistic way of viewing the matter that I accuse others of, sometimes.

I like very much, actually, what some entrepreneurs are doing, and appreciate their contribution. I was only trying to point out that some of the 'Old Guard' who have contributed nothing new for decades have too much of a grasp on the government now, and exert that price-paid influence out of sheer desperation to retain their franchise. Sad to see.

The ME fiasco is but the dinosaur thrashing it's tail, to the end.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 136

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/2/2014 12:35:02 AM

Edwynn

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Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

Good link, BTW. Thanks for that one.

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674725447

It's not that business is 'ebil,' far from it. But there is no harm in discussing how business can better serve both itself and society at the same time.

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 137

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/2/2014 1:28:19 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
customers create jobs...if people cant afford what you sell, there wont be long term decent jobs to create

How many customers would have been buying Henry Fords' cars, had it not been for Henry Ford creating jobs

Had there not been a demand for better transportation, Henry Ford would not have been in business, nor the car industry itself, in the first place. If there were not Henry Ford's recognition that he had to find a way to produce cars that workers of the day could afford, we would never have heard of Henry Ford. Mr. Ford did not build his business plan on selling his cars only to his own workers. But he certainly did recognize that workers cannot buy what they cannot afford with their pay.

Demand creates supply, it has ever been thus, and there is no creditable evidence to the contrary.

It's true that beanie babies and pet rocks and talk-head fuckwit radio or web sites can be sold to the lowest element of society, the closest we come to supply creating demand. I knew people 25 years ago that paid $2,000-4,000 for a computer with 256k RAM, paying $.60-1.20 per minute to be online, and I know people today that spend $200-600 for a 'smart phone' (with a $360-800/year 'plan') that does everything slower and in more cumbersome fashion than the modern $400 desktop at home can do. Some people can be snookered into anything. But anything useful in society has come about because a gradually better informed society (or an army) has provided the demand for it in the first place.

No business has ever spent millions of dollars of investment on 'creating demand,' but only on the hope that their newfound ability to provide further for an existing demand (such as the centuries-long, nay, millennia-long demand for better travel, better communications, et al.) would play out.

That is to say, investment strives toward better serving existing demand. For example, cock fights and dog fights have been replaced by violent video games and talk-head fuckwit radio and web sites, but the same demand by society's droolers is being fed the whole way through.

Fortunately, the dumbfucks who bought the slow computers at $4,000 25 years ago, and pay $400 for a stupid phone nowadays, provide the initial return on what will eventually be a useful item to society.

I am already benefiting, in fact. I paid $9.95 for my cell phone, and it can even connect me to the internet, if I were stupid enough to use the phone for that. As it is, I pay $80-100 a year for the service.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/2/2014 2:07:58 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 138

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/2/2014 2:04:42 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: CentralFLDomCPL
Well, if you actually HEARD the "didn't build that" quote and UNDERSTOOD it, you would know your entire premise is incorrect.

What President Obama ACTUALLY said was no one built a business by themselves. As an example, if you built a factory, there had to be a road leading to your property. You didn't build that road. There had to be trucks to bring the construction materials to your property. You didn't build the trucks. There had to be SO many other different things already in place, just for you to be able to build your business. You didn't build them, but without them, you couldn't build your business. He NEVER said the person didn't build their business, just that he couldn't have done it without the infrastructure to make it possible.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. That's why Faux News (unfair and unbalanced) is always misquoting people and taking things out of context.

Ah, the familiar chorus among Obama's few remaining fans

He didnt say what you just heard him say.

Yes, when Mr. Obama speaks it does require a level of intelligence and education higher than a tadpole. Conservatives just aren't accused much anymore of being intelligent, thinking, and objective-based, individuals. Every successful business owner did not obtain such moments without...LOTS...of other things. One could be a brilliant individual, but if no one buys their products and/or services, are they successful? It takes other people believing the individuals abilities could lead towards success, for things of a positive nature to happen. Mr. Ford was not successful by himself; but by those believing in him, the thousands of workers, several factories and a logistics system created to handle demand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Fast becoming, Hillary didnt say what you just heard her say

Why was the following such a huge applause line in that same speech

Name the number of people that obtain vast wealth without inheriting it, winning it in the lottery, or by criminal action(s) (and strictly on their own)? Now compare that to the actual vast sum of people that became wealthy by the actions of others around them? A simple investor does not become a multi-millionaire just by investing $200/month; but by the actions of many others in the company to which that investor is placing their money. A man like Bill Gates did not become a multi-billionaire simply because he 'pirated' stuff from others; it took a sizable amount of people, doing millions of actions for him to achieve success.

Ever look into the local Life Scouts (from the BSA) trying to pass 'The Eagle Project'? They do not pass the test without the help of many others on the project. Even just getting Eagle Rank requires the boy to have gotten help by many others (most likely their parent(s)).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
His hand-picked fans in the audience were applauding because the message was clear

I suppose you have some...EVIDENCE....to back up your statement, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
If someone owns a business, has accumulated wealth, the state has every right to redistribute that wealth because it belongs to the state

Plenty of people own businesses, and the failure rate of businesses is 50%. So accumulating wealth is not even remotely as easy as you make it out to be. Further, you think of 'the State' as this unseen, evil, entity. And not what it REALLY is: composed of US Citizens working at jobs in the public sector. Taxes were....VOTED...on; another concept you never seem to be able to wrap your head around (for unknown reasons). There is no 'redistribution of wealth'; that's just some crazy conservative babble to stroke fear into the population. You want 'redistribution of wealth', what percentage of the nation does the poor/middle class own compared to the rich/1%'ers? Has it improved for the poor/middle class in twenty years?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
You heard him promising "free government money" if you were in his target audience

Didn't hear that. Guess I'm not conditioned by FOX News and other conservative media as well as you have become. Whats it like being in the 'Low Information Voter' category of the nation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
However if that Marxist message doesnt appeal to you, you heard nothing

Does one have to be a Christian to say, "Hey, Jesus had some good ideas on how to treat people...."?

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 139

RE: Let Your Far-Left Freak Flag Fly - 11/2/2014 4:01:46 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

You, of course, don't have the first clue how any of this came about. But there is no question that you, with out anything resembling a clue, will jump in on this with a comment ASAP.

After seeing which poster this was in reply to I have to say I totally agree.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 140

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