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RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 10:02:36 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Well, the easiest and quickest way to reduce the cost of health care in the US is to stop treating people over the age of 65. I do not see that going over well though.


I'm glad that wouldn't go over well.

quote:

Allow insurance to cross state lines.


One issue with that, is that the cost of living isn't necessarily the same across a state line, so the costs of care wouldn't be, either. That would make it more expensive for the lower cost of living areas and less expensive for the higher cost of living areas.

quote:

More doc in a box or nurse in box ~ quick in and out, pretty cheap, frees up GP office time and ERs.


I'm not familiar with doc/nurse in a box. Increased use of Nurse Practitioners and/or Physician Assistants could also reduce the cost of care.

quote:

Allow people to sell organs.


ebay.com/liver...

I'm not so sure that's such a good idea. I can see an awful lot of bad shit happening with that scenario.

quote:

Reduce over treatment and specialist referrals. I think that those two would need to be done through malpractice and tort law as well as Medicaid/Medicare billing and reimbursement practices.


Explain, please.

quote:

Make more drugs available OTC. Put the cold meds back. Put BC on the shelf.


That would depend on the potential side effects and the effects of overuse. BC is hormonal control, the effects of which a regular Jane/Joe Schmo may not understand. That could end up really bad. Plus, there is already an impact on the environment from BC hormones.

quote:

Publish the prices of services. This is a biggie. Giving the option, people will comparison shop. Let them.


I'm with you on that.

quote:

And yes, when you continually ask questions and do not actually discuss what I have said, you do remind me of him.


If I have questions regarding your answers, I'm going to ask them. That's kinda what a discussion is, yanno?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 10:09:35 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

1. Why does Health Care Insurance Cost so much?

Because the corporate world of medicine have free range to charge and the authority to do that?

quote:


I contend that insurance costs so much because cost for treatments and procedures costs so much. That begs the question:


And I contend that health insurance companies know they can make billions of dollars by providing as little health care as possible whilst lining their own pockets?

quote:


2. Why do procedures and treatments cost so much?



Because every dime spent is dominated by government bureaucrats, health insurance companies and pharmaceutical corporations. I've always said that the US system is one huge money making scam that is designed to drain money out of sick individuals and put it in the pockets of the the rich.

quote:


3. Is it inflated costing by the hospitals/providers?


I would of thought its only the "for-profit hospitals" that can jump on the money making gravy train.

quote:


4. What do you think would happen if the Federal Government took over the Administration of Health Care by running the hospitals? That is, how would costs change if the US Government was the Administrators of the care providers, paying a fair wage to the Administrative staff and only charging what it actually costs to cover the cost of supplies, those administrative costs, and pay the care providers (assuming care providers were self-employed contractors, charging what they wanted)?


Until Government can put caps on big insurance companies and the pharmaceutical industry, little can change but that isn't going to happen because both insurance and pharmaceutical giants spend millions and millions of dollars to make sure your politicians in Washington D.C. jump to their tune.


_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 10:10:34 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Because the retards watered it down with over 11,000 pages of crap before they would agree to pass it.
11,000 pages of changes that made sure it was sooo far removed from the original proposal that what you ended up with wasn't much better than the clusterfuck you have for healthcare when the ACA finally made it to the people.

Obamacare was passed without a GOP vote. This is wholly owned by the Democrats. You can spew whatever nonsense you want, but the facts of the matter are out there. Any watering down wasn't because of Republicans. They still didn't vote for it.

Obama couldn't get it approved until the repubs drastically watered it down.
That took 3 years and more than 11,000 pages of changes from the original plan.
Read about it. The repubs killed it while it was being born.


Wait. The Democrats had majorities in the House and Senate in 2009/2010. In addition to having a 59-41 Senate majority for most of that time, there was a 60-40 supermajority (60 votes being required to pass legislation) in the latter parts of 2009. So, why did they need to knuckle under to the GOP anyway? Obamacare got watered down by Republicans so it could get passed by Democrats/Independents?!? That's just fucking stupid. It sounds more like it got watered down to the point where the Dem Caucus would support it. That's not just Republicans, then, is it?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 10:17:22 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Japan's system is 70%/30% with government footing the 70% part. How is it that they still innovate and yet, their spend is still really fucking low?

I have explained this to you many times in the past Desi and I've given several examples of how the socially-funded healthcare systems work and actually drive costs down.
Your own graph just shows how they work to keep ever-expanding costs to a minimum.
You keep asking for proof - and there you have it.
What's the essential ingredient missing from social healthcare in all these other countries??
Greedy insurance companies and a cap on legal lawsuites!!
Yes, The Japanese have 30% private healthcare and I believe the Australians have a similar system with a 50/50 split.
How is it they work so well with private healthcare as part of it?
Because the government do not pay the exorbitant private costs - that's how.
Whatever private work is done as part of the general socially-funded care is paid to those private companies at the government rate; not the fully-charged private rate.
This is fundamentally where the US system falls flat on it's face and is soo expensive per person.


And, I have explained to you many times in the past, FD, that there is no proof that costs would drop, only that costs would rise slower. Nowhere has anyone shown me (even though I've asked over and over and over) that costs drop when a country switched to national health care. Not a single person. Step up to the plate and show me.

I have given you many examples in the past where costs are directly driven DOWN by socially-funded healthcare.
Not just rising much slower.... actually and physically lower costs per item than a privately funded system.
You just refuse to see the numbers game and insist on proof.

Just look at the graph you posted.
All examples of socially-funded single-payer systems cost MUCH less than the US system of private insurance.
There is your proof.
Nobody can provide explicit individual invoices which seem to be your only acceptance of "proof".
Every country typically buys the same sort of equipment, the same pills, pays for hospitals and staff and GP's and services..... yada yada yada.
Yet they are all at a lower cost PPP than the US private insurance system.
It is proof by example... lots of examples. But you won't accept that.

And let me reiterate just one simple example that I gave a year or so ago.
Two local hospitals, one is part of our NHS (socially funded healthcare), the other is run by Bupa (private insurance a.k.a US system).
Both wanted a new scanner priced at $22k each.
Bupa hospital said it was too expensive and didn't buy one.
NHS hospital bought one for just $8k because the NHS used it's fiscal muscle and negotiated the deal and price but for a number of NHS hospitals, including our local one.
So..... total cost to our NHS hospital was $8k (and $8k for all the others that wanted one). That is by far cheaper than the $22k price tag for individual hospitals to purchase.
A direct saving of $14k for just that one item.
Private patients: don't have the new scanner despite the high insurance premiums they pay.
NHS patients: pay far less and have the new scanner.

See how that works??
And that is just one example amongst many others that I have given you in the past.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 10:18:13 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
1. Why does Health Care Insurance Cost so much?

Because the corporate world of medicine have free range to charge and the authority to do that?


Economics don't have any effect in the Medicine?

quote:

quote:

I contend that insurance costs so much because cost for treatments and procedures costs so much. That begs the question:

And I contend that health insurance companies know they can make billions of dollars by providing as little health care as possible whilst lining their own pockets?


But, costs haven't dropped even though the amount of money spent directly towards care has been mandated to be at least 80%. How can they line their pockets when they have to spend 80% of collected premiums towards paying for care (that doesn't include administrative costs, salaries, etc.). How can an insurance company line its pockets?

quote:

quote:

2. Why do procedures and treatments cost so much?

Because every dime spent is dominated by government bureaucrats, health insurance companies and pharmaceutical corporations. I've always said that the US system is one huge money making scam that is designed to drain money out of sick individuals and put it in the pockets of the the rich.


Any proposal to solve the situation?

quote:

quote:

3. Is it inflated costing by the hospitals/providers?

I would of thought its only the "for-profit hospitals" that can jump on the money making gravy train.


Most of the hospitals are not for-profit, though.

quote:

quote:

4. What do you think would happen if the Federal Government took over the Administration of Health Care by running the hospitals? That is, how would costs change if the US Government was the Administrators of the care providers, paying a fair wage to the Administrative staff and only charging what it actually costs to cover the cost of supplies, those administrative costs, and pay the care providers (assuming care providers were self-employed contractors, charging what they wanted)?

Until Government can put caps on big insurance companies and the pharmaceutical industry, little can change but that isn't going to happen because both insurance and pharmaceutical giants spend millions and millions of dollars to make sure your politicians in Washington D.C. jump to their tune.


What kind of caps are you thinking? So, another person claims that the Federal Government is bought and paid for (I agree). Unfortunately, that's probably too far off topic to really look at in this thread.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 10:27:38 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
I have given you many examples in the past where costs are directly driven DOWN by socially-funded healthcare.
Not just rising much slower.... actually and physically lower costs per item than a privately funded system.
You just refuse to see the numbers game and insist on proof.


Where have you shown any examples where costs have dropped? It's not just about the cost of an MRI machine for the NHS vs. the cost of an MRI machine for a private UK hospital. If that was all there was to it, then profits at medical equipment manufacturers in the US would be massive (which would be a signal to the Market and there would be a massive influx of competitors to fight for those profits). Why would a medical device maker sell to government at such a low price, compared to private hospitals? Wouldn't that be gouging the private company? Or, could it be, that the private companies are having to pay such a high rate to make up for the well-below-cost price for the government? What happens when there isn't a customer to pay that high rate anymore?

quote:

Just look at the graph you posted.
All examples of socially-funded single-payer systems cost MUCH less than the US system of private insurance.
There is your proof.
Nobody can provide explicit individual invoices which seem to be your only acceptance of "proof".
Every country typically buys the same sort of equipment, the same pills, pays for hospitals and staff and GP's and services..... yada yada yada.
Yet they are all at a lower cost PPP than the US private insurance system.
It is proof by example... lots of examples. But you won't accept that.


Bullshit. I'm not asking for individual invoices at all. What was spending in the UK in the years prior to the NHS? What was it in the years immediately after? I've looked, and I admit I can't find that data. I can't find it for Italy, Germany, Australia, either. So, please, do show me where costs have dropped.

quote:

And let me reiterate just one simple example that I gave a year or so ago.
Two local hospitals, one is part of our NHS (socially funded healthcare), the other is run by Bupa (private insurance a.k.a US system).
Both wanted a new scanner priced at $22k each.
Bupa hospital said it was too expensive and didn't buy one.
NHS hospital bought one for just $8k because the NHS used it's fiscal muscle and negotiated the deal and price but for a number of NHS hospitals, including our local one.
So..... total cost to our NHS hospital was $8k (and $8k for all the others that wanted one). That is by far cheaper than the $22k price tag for individual hospitals to purchase.
A direct saving of $14k for just that one item.
Private patients: don't have the new scanner despite the high insurance premiums they pay.
NHS patients: pay far less and have the new scanner.
See how that works??
And that is just one example amongst many others that I have given you in the past.


Why was Bupa's price so much higher? I know you probably won't know the answer to this, but I do wonder what the actual cost of the scanners was to make. How much was made/lost?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 10:48:14 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, we got into getting rid of slavery late, getting women the right to vote late, WWI and WWII late........you're right, its hopeless, lets give up.



or people could do like you do and dance around whiling blaming everything on the nutsuckers.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, our government regulations have slowed the destruction brought on by the nutsucker goons and thugs. The evidence is ubiquitous, but jingos are reality to nutsuckers.



you seem to think that's productive.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 11:05:51 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
I have given you many examples in the past where costs are directly driven DOWN by socially-funded healthcare.
Not just rising much slower.... actually and physically lower costs per item than a privately funded system.
You just refuse to see the numbers game and insist on proof.


Where have you shown any examples where costs have dropped? It's not just about the cost of an MRI machine for the NHS vs. the cost of an MRI machine for a private UK hospital. If that was all there was to it, then profits at medical equipment manufacturers in the US would be massive (which would be a signal to the Market and there would be a massive influx of competitors to fight for those profits). Why would a medical device maker sell to government at such a low price, compared to private hospitals? Wouldn't that be gouging the private company? Or, could it be, that the private companies are having to pay such a high rate to make up for the well-below-cost price for the government? What happens when there isn't a customer to pay that high rate anymore?

I gave you just ONE example of where costs were physically driven down by utilising the fiscal muscle power of a nation-wide spending budget over that of a private single hospital.
Now apply that logic to everything across the board - and that is where savings are made.

The equipment manufacturers still make shitloads of profits even from such deals as the scanner I quoted.
They just have a unit-price drop but sell many more units.
It's the scale of numbers and is just how supermarkets manage to maintain profits and sell the individual items at a lower price than a local kwik-e-mart.
You don't seem to grasp that concept too well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

Just look at the graph you posted.
All examples of socially-funded single-payer systems cost MUCH less than the US system of private insurance.
There is your proof.
Nobody can provide explicit individual invoices which seem to be your only acceptance of "proof".
Every country typically buys the same sort of equipment, the same pills, pays for hospitals and staff and GP's and services..... yada yada yada.
Yet they are all at a lower cost PPP than the US private insurance system.
It is proof by example... lots of examples. But you won't accept that.


Bullshit. I'm not asking for individual invoices at all. What was spending in the UK in the years prior to the NHS? What was it in the years immediately after? I've looked, and I admit I can't find that data. I can't find it for Italy, Germany, Australia, either. So, please, do show me where costs have dropped.

So what "proof" are you specifically wanting??
There is plenty of proof by example in many OECD socially-funded healthcare systems.
It seems you are asking for the impossible.

Our NHS was founded in 1944. And like many other countries, figures aren't available for that period so there cannot be any direct before/after comparison.
And again, like many other countries, our single-payer systems have evolved to meet the demands over the decades; so figures for that aren't usually available except for more recent years where spending has been analyzed more closely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

And let me reiterate just one simple example that I gave a year or so ago.
Two local hospitals, one is part of our NHS (socially funded healthcare), the other is run by Bupa (private insurance a.k.a US system).
Both wanted a new scanner priced at $22k each.
Bupa hospital said it was too expensive and didn't buy one.
NHS hospital bought one for just $8k because the NHS used it's fiscal muscle and negotiated the deal and price but for a number of NHS hospitals, including our local one.
So..... total cost to our NHS hospital was $8k (and $8k for all the others that wanted one). That is by far cheaper than the $22k price tag for individual hospitals to purchase.
A direct saving of $14k for just that one item.
Private patients: don't have the new scanner despite the high insurance premiums they pay.
NHS patients: pay far less and have the new scanner.
See how that works??
And that is just one example amongst many others that I have given you in the past.


Why was Bupa's price so much higher? I know you probably won't know the answer to this, but I do wonder what the actual cost of the scanners was to make. How much was made/lost?


Bupa's price was much higher because they had no buying clout to negotiate a lower price.
Quite simply, that was the market price of a single machine.
I have no idea how many machines were negotiated for the NHS other than there were a good few more than a single unit.
It's just like buying in bulk but on a bigger scale.

I'll give you another example: cutlery for the hospital. One single set is priced at £8 (about $13). Buy 200 sets and they cost only £5 per set (that would be enough for 200 patients and no spares). For a 750 bed hospital, one set for each patient and one set being washed/cleaned etc, makes a total of 1,500 sets of cutlery minimum. Unit price is now dropped to £3.50 per set but to get that level of discount, you need to buy more than 1,000 sets in a single order.
For a single (largish) hospital, that is doable. For a small hospital or recovery clinic, probably not.
Now multiply that by over 200 NHS hospitals. That amounts to 300,000 sets of cutlery in a single order made by the NHS as a single purchasing body. And for that sort of order level, that unit price drops even further to less than £3 per set.
So, for a direct comparison, a small privately funded 50-bed hospital, it would cost them £8 per set for the cutlery because it would be uneconomical to buy the minimum 200-set order to get the discount.
The NHS buys a bare minimum of 300,000 sets at less than £3 per set.
See where the money is actually saved??
All the NHS hospitals, including those little tiny rural hospitals, get their cutlery at less than £3 per set but the private hospital is paying £8 a set.

It's a numbers game across the board and vast savings are also made across the board.
You can't seem to grasp how this works.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 11:15:25 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
There's nothing inherently evil about US health care costs. They've simply evolved differently because the US climate differs significantly relative to countries with a different focus.

1) Any successful business has a range of products from lower cost entry level offers to the high priced elite programs that pay most of the bills. A yoga studio, for example, might offer low cost drop in rates, but survives because offering teacher training brings in thousands per prospective teacher. In the US, where available health care is rationed primarily by ability to pay, this model is favored. Thus, we develop a lot of new, exciting, cutting edge procedures and technology -- that's also very expensive, because people (or their insurance companies) can and will pay (at least in some instances, enough to make the research and development profitable). These high cost procedures drive up health care costs. The rest of the world then benefits from the secondary adoption of the new technology, which is less expensive.

2) The US is litigious, because the legal climate is very open to bringing lawsuits, with no significant cost if the lawsuit is later found to be without merit. Defending against a lawsuit, though, even a frivolous one, is expensive -- so expensive that defendants will not uncommonly settle simply to spare the higher cost of a trial. This puts the focus on preventing lawsuits in the first place. Consequently, if there's any doubt at all, medical practitioners will order tests and procedures, simply to cover their butts (and there's no penalty for prescribing too many tests). This adds significant cost where often good judgment would indicate the tests aren't really indicated.

3) We have a business model for hospitals, and that means they each have their own equipment, their own pharmacies, their own everything, a costly inventory. Even though there are 10 pharmacies in town, the hospital needs a fully stocked one too. And each of the six hospitals in a medium sized city has its own MRI machine, etc. Further, they have to turn a profit, or the endeavor would not be worth doing (they'd invest elsewhere instead). In Canada, some hospitals specialize -- just a certain kind of surgery, for example -- which allows them extreme efficiency relative to being stocked and ready for anything. And, having a pharmacy that dolls out single pills rather than bottles of them is expensive (and risky, as precautions must be made for sterile handling)...while at the same time not ethically allowed to sell patients a whole bottle.

4) We don't have a comprehensive health care system for our citizens, the way single-payer countries do. Even the ACA is just a procedure to get more people into the existing structure, and Medicare is really about what to do with poor people more than a comprehensive health care solution. A system not designed to provide affordable health care to all isn't ever going to provide affordable health care to all.

5) Business-based insurance worked well at a time when health insurance was a rarity -- it did get more people insured. But it was never designed to insure all citizens. Trying to prop it up to try to do so is not efficient -- and therefore not cost effective relative to single-payer countries.

6) Putting insurance in the hands of insurers means they, in many instances, improve their business model by cutting more costly offerings. That's the mess that's driving up costs of some plans because of the ACA, which no longer allows those shortcuts. (States with already higher standards, like New York, aren't seeing these increases).

7) Putting the burden on businesses exacerbates the problem, as they struggle to keep employee coverage while the cost continually climbs at double digit rates. They become forced to control costs somehow, and since they can't do it as provider of the medical services, they can only pass on the cost or opt for less coverage.

8) In short, we don't have a system designed to provide universal, affordable health care, so it's no surprise that's not what happens. And, politically in the US, from the Truman administration on, there's partisan opposition to anything remotely resembling socialized medicine, partly on blind ideology, partly to protect private business interests with the medical industry. The ACA is a band-aid -- and even the band-aid has fierce political opposition. Frankly, there's a political segment that doesn't want affordable universal health care, and actively works to prevent it.

That's why health care costs are so high in the US.



(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 12:22:41 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
Two glasses of wine and I'm anybodies. I'm on my second glass as I type this so I'm going to keep it short; at least for now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Any proposal to solve the situation?



A peoples revolution?

Take a look at your "Declaration of Independence". Your health care system violates that declaration because it clearly denies the right to life. There is only one reason an American citizen is denied access to appropriate health care and that is, the profits are more important than the people.




_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 12:48:52 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Two glasses of wine and I'm anybodies. I'm on my second glass as I type this so I'm going to keep it short; at least for now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Any proposal to solve the situation?



A peoples revolution?

Take a look at your "Declaration of Independence". Your health care system violates that declaration because it clearly denies the right to life. There is only one reason an American citizen is denied access to appropriate health care and that is, the profits are more important than the people.




Unbridled capitalism is a bitch, Maria


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 12:56:38 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, we got into getting rid of slavery late, getting women the right to vote late, WWI and WWII late........you're right, its hopeless, lets give up.



or people could do like you do and dance around whiling blaming everything on the nutsuckers.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, our government regulations have slowed the destruction brought on by the nutsucker goons and thugs. The evidence is ubiquitous, but jingos are reality to nutsuckers.



you seem to think that's productive.


thb, any idea who the "nutsackers" are?
Are they the Republicans? the man? or anyone who does not agree with him?

I am scared to ask what a "jingo" is, I might not like the answer.

< Message edited by Marini -- 11/22/2014 12:59:41 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 12:59:32 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Two glasses of wine and I'm anybodies. I'm on my second glass as I type this so I'm going to keep it short; at least for now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Any proposal to solve the situation?



A peoples revolution?

Take a look at your "Declaration of Independence". Your health care system violates that declaration because it clearly denies the right to life. There is only one reason an American citizen is denied access to appropriate health care and that is, the profits are more important than the people.




Unbridled capitalism is a bitch, Maria



Since when have we seen capitalism any where near "unbridled" in this country

The problem is over regulation and over litigation etc



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(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 1:04:27 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, we got into getting rid of slavery late, getting women the right to vote late, WWI and WWII late........you're right, its hopeless, lets give up.



or people could do like you do and dance around whiling blaming everything on the nutsuckers.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, our government regulations have slowed the destruction brought on by the nutsucker goons and thugs. The evidence is ubiquitous, but jingos are reality to nutsuckers.



you seem to think that's productive.


thb, any idea who the "nutsackers" are?
Are they the Republicans? the man? or anyone who does not agree with him?

I am scared to ask what a "jingo" is, I might not like the answer.

A jingo is ...a jingoist or= an advocate of an aggressive nationalism
nutsuckers were teapartiers or tea baggers or just baggers...now extended to koch suckers, rwnjs, the religious right and the crazy end of the spectrum.
People like Palin Bachmann, Cruz, Ingraham, rush,


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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 1:08:00 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

A jingo is ...a jingoist or= an advocate of an aggressive nationalism
nutsuckers were teapartiers or tea baggers or just baggers...now extended to koch suckers, rwnjs, the religious right and the crazy end of the spectrum.
People like Palin Bachmann, Cruz, Ingraham, rush,




It is a homophobic slur, meant as a homophobic slur

Its about as close to intellectual debate as certain people can get

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(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 1:10:04 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
humm thanks Lucy, you know your mnottertail lingo.

Interesting I even looked up jingoism, Ron has an interesting vernacular.

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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 1:10:50 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
oh bollocks
sucking balls is not a homosexual endeavour only


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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 1:13:48 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

humm thanks Lucy, you know your mnottertail lingo.

Interesting I even looked up jingoism, Ron has an interesting vernacular.

heh I get him...
I like him
I dont always agree with him
but he is often right.


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 1:14:16 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

oh bollocks
sucking balls is not a homosexual endeavour only



Whoa!

Your fuckablity factor just went up 7 points.

Resume bickering, that is all.

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(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: US Health Care Costs - 11/22/2014 1:14:38 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Two glasses of wine and I'm anybodies. I'm on my second glass as I type this so I'm going to keep it short; at least for now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Any proposal to solve the situation?



A peoples revolution?

Take a look at your "Declaration of Independence". Your health care system violates that declaration because it clearly denies the right to life. There is only one reason an American citizen is denied access to appropriate health care and that is, the profits are more important than the people.




Unbridled capitalism is a bitch, Maria



Since when have we seen capitalism any where near "unbridled" in this country

The problem is over regulation and over litigation etc



The US is 1/25 of the world's population. But we are 1/5 of the global economy, with a GDP of $15 trillion.

Where do you think that's coming from? Unbridled socialism?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 80
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