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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


You penned the words:

>In white neighborhoods when a murder in committed it makes no difference what race did it police get cooperation from witnesses and the crime is often solved... This IS policing yourself... But in African American neighborhoods when a murder is committed often witnesses refuse to cooperate and the murders go unsolved. Of course this is not all the time and we are speaking in generalities.<

^^^^^ just a major league head-scratcher there.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

This thread brings to mind a point made in the latest New Yorker:

Giuliani’s argument [that the real problem is black-on-black crime] is a curious, if durable, one that would seem to suggest that the members of a community should themselves be responsible for correcting the behavior of other members of their demographic. (Nobody asks the same of the white population.)

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/08/crimes-commissions

Could that possibly be because whites are not allowed to see themselves as a community because to do so would be racist?

1) Who doesn't "allow" this?
2) What would be the reason for excluding other races?

What do you think would happen if a group calling itself the N.A.A.W.P. tried to form? Or the United White College Fund? Think they'd be seen as doing something for the "white community" or as "racist" organizations?

The same reason other races are excluded when speaking of the "black" community...well, except for including whites as the "base" reason for all their problems.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: kdsub
DomKen I did not say that... you should know me better than that... but what is happening does mean something in reality... it is in the minds of white AND blacks in St. Louis... I am not making up stories... just check out the Post Dispatch... these things are happening and people are afraid.. the downtown area is dying... We now have to have metal detectors everywhere... The Mayor of St Louis just asked for 160 new police officers because the crime is beyond the departments ability to control... And no matter if you or I like it or not the majority is black crime
Should we all just ignore what is happening because to tell the truth sounds racist... will that is not me... I decided long ago to be truthful online.
Butch

The truth is that most violent crime is committed by poor people so if most poor people in St. Louis are black then of course that will be who commits  most of the violent crime. Having police forces act like occupying forces and legislative bodies passing punitive laws for minor offences will only make matters worse.
What needs to happen is integration of neighborhoods and reforms to the governments in the area.

Integration of neighborhoods? How are you going to effect that? Are you going to dictate where people live now? If so, are you going to subsidize the cost of housing for those who can't afford their new neighborhood they just got moved to? How is it that a person can't decide where he/she wants to live?

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: kdsub
DomKen I did not say that... you should know me better than that... but what is happening does mean something in reality... it is in the minds of white AND blacks in St. Louis... I am not making up stories... just check out the Post Dispatch... these things are happening and people are afraid.. the downtown area is dying... We now have to have metal detectors everywhere... The Mayor of St Louis just asked for 160 new police officers because the crime is beyond the departments ability to control... And no matter if you or I like it or not the majority is black crime
Should we all just ignore what is happening because to tell the truth sounds racist... will that is not me... I decided long ago to be truthful online.
Butch

The truth is that most violent crime is committed by poor people so if most poor people in St. Louis are black then of course that will be who commits  most of the violent crime. Having police forces act like occupying forces and legislative bodies passing punitive laws for minor offences will only make matters worse.
What needs to happen is integration of neighborhoods and reforms to the governments in the area.

Integration of neighborhoods? How are you going to effect that? Are you going to dictate where people live now? If so, are you going to subsidize the cost of housing for those who can't afford their new neighborhood they just got moved to? How is it that a person can't decide where he/she wants to live?

If artificial barriers are not erected then integration will happen naturally over time. Segregation by the use of redlining and white flight is the problem.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

dc check the murder rate among blacks and compare it to whites... then tell me again if it is not disproportionate. The difference I believe IS in the distrust of police...In white neighborhoods when a murder in committed it makes no difference what race did it police get cooperation from witnesses and the crime is often solved... This IS policing yourself... But in African American neighborhoods when a murder is committed often witnesses refuse to cooperate and the murders go unsolved. Of course this is not all the time and we are speaking in generalities. But it is happening frequently and news stories often list this fact when covering them.

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long tradition of not cooperating with the police can be seen in immigrant and poor communities everywhere.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

They solve almost half and that includes cases where they cannot get witnesses... I would say that was pretty good. I was reading a St Louis police blog earlier this year where they were asking for witnesses to come forward. At that time they had 27 murders and in 17 of them no one would come forward as a witness. Considering this is common I would say 200 solved out of around 425 was pretty good…And as the police say the solved rate would be much higher if witnesses volunteered information.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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long tradition of not cooperating with the police can be seen in immigrant and poor communities everywhere.

Evidently not in South St Louis in the Bosnian community.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Bosnians are white immigrants, they don't count.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Yep - I get what you feel! Myself, I watched this event unfolding and thought to myself, 'Another incidence of nastiness in America'. It's really difficult not to think of Americans as savages ... It's wrong to feel that way, but there are reasons for the way we Brits feel, even they're wrong reasons ....

Actually, I don't feel that at all. You get the point, though? You'd rightly get pretty damned prickly if a Brit were to say that about Americans - tarring all of you with the same brush? So, you could understand why black Americans would get pissed off at white Americans tarring *them* all with the same brush, no? Isn't it the same principle?

Why yes, you do on a regular basis and we do. Not sure why you put the "if" in there.

Nope, I don't, THB. That's just your usual hyper-sensitivity and national inferiority hang up speaking.

Not speaking to you personally, but I have noticed than in general, there's a tendency for those people who most deny racism when it's blatantly obvious to anti-racists to be exactly those who'll (claim to) feel anti-American bias from non-Americans. Odd that. My own hunch is that such people live in a world of prejudices and assume everyone else does too - only with different prejudices. They look down on one kind of person and end up believing, to their horror, that another sort of person entirely looks down on them. It's the flip side of the same prejudice-minded coin.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Bosnians are white immigrants, they don't count.

WTF this means, who knows. [8|]

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Bosnians are white immigrants, they don't count.

WTF this means, who knows. [8|]

Bosnian immigrants are being targeted for crimes. They say they should be considered hate crimes. There have been some protests after a man was beat to death with a hammer. They chanted "Bosnian Lives Matter."

But yeah . . . it does not fit the narrative, now does it?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/03/where-outrage-st-louis-bosnian-community-sees-hammer-murder-as-hate-crime/

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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I can understand one's frustration over crime in one's area. We have our share of violent crime in southern Arizona, in addition to being close to the border which is another source of frustration for many here. The type of violent criminal behavior you're describing here can actually be found among all races

Zonie I agree it can be found... but I challenge you to find it in St. Louis among whites at that frequency.. remember St Louis is divided 50/50 African Americans to white.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

After more drive by shooting where a group of black teens were shot at and one hit in the foot... the St. Louis police have finally come up with an idea. They are hunting down the parents of the TEENS shot at...and citing them if they did not know where their children were.

This is something that is needed...black parents, and whites, need to be held responsible for where their children are and what they are doing.

A first step...even if forced.

Butch