RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification)

RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/19/2014 3:03:44 PM)
quote: No it is possible. If you saw Steve you would honest to god call him "pancake head" I'd probably wait till he and I were getting on a bit, first. Would seem a bit cheeky right at the outset. [;)]

NookieNotes -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/19/2014 5:58:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: I'm not sure I agree. At least not from what I witness. Many LOVE brats, and encourage them with "punishments" for acting out, etc. While I think that many would claim this in theory, in practical practice, I think many do think (in and out of D/s relationships) that they can FORCE change or behavior, in one way or another. You see it on these boards a lot, "What can I do to make..." Yeah. shrugs Really? I must admit, that's not been my take on it. Though, thinking about it, it's possible that I've assumed that the general consensus is that of the most outspoken of the femdoms here. I'm not talking necessarily just about FemDoms or even just about these forums. I'm talking real life, and other places (FetLife, etc). quote: On the other hand, I do understand a certain good, though perhaps not very conscious, reason for femdoms to take a shine to brats. Brats 'play' with femdoms and, in so doing, maybe make them feel as though it's all lot more light hearted and human. It does not take a brat to be lighthearted and playful, in my experience. brat noun derogatoryhumorous noun: brat; plural noun: brats a child, typically a badly behaved one. synonyms: badly behaved child, spoiled child; More I love lighthearted, smart assed, fun-loving, humorous subs. I do not do badly-behaved, or spoiled. quote: It must be pretty damned awful, I'd have thought, for a woman to feel as though she just must 'live' up there on that pedestal - legs always shaven, never having a period, never having a bad hair day, never needing to get down to use the toilet ... quite grim, really. I'd hate for a partner to feel that way. I'd like her to know that she can get off the pedestal and fart when she needs to. [;)] I'm not sure I understand. Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be?

GoddessManko -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/19/2014 6:27:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: I'm not sure I agree. At least not from what I witness. Many LOVE brats, and encourage them with "punishments" for acting out, etc. While I think that many would claim this in theory, in practical practice, I think many do think (in and out of D/s relationships) that they can FORCE change or behavior, in one way or another. You see it on these boards a lot, "What can I do to make..." Yeah. shrugs Really? I must admit, that's not been my take on it. Though, thinking about it, it's possible that I've assumed that the general consensus is that of the most outspoken of the femdoms here. I'm not talking necessarily just about FemDoms or even just about these forums. I'm talking real life, and other places (FetLife, etc). 100% agreed, in fact I have come at odds with many members who might perceive me to enjoy "I'm a groveling worm" types merely because I like to always be in control and greatly...so greatly dislike coercion of any kind from my subs. quote: quote: On the other hand, I do understand a certain good, though perhaps not very conscious, reason for femdoms to take a shine to brats. Brats 'play' with femdoms and, in so doing, maybe make them feel as though it's all lot more light hearted and human. It does not take a brat to be lighthearted and playful, in my experience. brat noun derogatoryhumorous noun: brat; plural noun: brats a child, typically a badly behaved one. synonyms: badly behaved child, spoiled child; More I love lighthearted, smart assed, fun-loving, humorous subs. I do not do badly-behaved, or spoiled. Exactly this. Add to that demanding. No, thank you. quote: quote: It must be pretty damned awful, I'd have thought, for a woman to feel as though she just must 'live' up there on that pedestal - legs always shaven, never having a period, never having a bad hair day, never needing to get down to use the toilet ... quite grim, really. I'd hate for a partner to feel that way. I'd like her to know that she can get off the pedestal and fart when she needs to. [;)] I'm not sure I understand. Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be? Good question. And I have to add peon, you can rest assured I have never felt compelled to live up to anyone's expectations other than MY own. [:D]

FieryOpal -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/19/2014 7:20:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes I'm not sure I agree. At least not from what I witness. Many LOVE brats, and encourage them with "punishments" for acting out, etc. While I think that many would claim this in theory, in practical practice, I think many do think (in and out of D/s relationships) that they can FORCE change or behavior, in one way or another. You see it on these boards a lot, "What can I do to make..." Yeah. shrugs Really? I must admit, that's not been my take on it. Though, thinking about it, it's possible that I've assumed that the general consensus is that of the most outspoken of the femdoms here. I'm not talking necessarily just about FemDoms or even just about these forums. I'm talking real life, and other places (FetLife, etc). No straight Domme I know (for lack of association with very many non-heteros) wants anything to do with a bratty sub, myself included. And yes, the door can hit him in the arse on the way out. [8D] In my estimation, there is more resistance play that Doms and femsubs enjoy, where the sub pretends to put up a "fight" or initially struggles, as in primal play takedowns in that sense, so it's possible that a femsub has to get into a semi-defiant headspace at the onset. Also in an M/f, it's possible a Dom may seek what he perceives as a challenge from time to time the way it's been described, or be more willing to put up with bratty behavior than a Domme would from her sub. quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes It does not take a brat to be lighthearted and playful, in my experience. brat noun... a child, typically a badly behaved one. synonyms: badly behaved child, spoiled child; More I love lighthearted, smart assed, fun-loving, humorous subs. I do not do badly-behaved, or spoiled. Playful, light resistance play, and a certain assertive deferentiality isn't being bratty and isn't indicative of lack of submissiveness on the part of the sub. I also like to kid around with my sub, just as long as he doesn't get disrespectful towards me. From what I've seen, a real brat isn't a submissive. He is more of a (kinky) bottom, or what we might call a DO-ME sub. quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer It must be pretty damned awful, I'd have thought, for a woman to feel as though she just must 'live' up there on that pedestal - legs always shaven, never having a period, never having a bad hair day, never needing to get down to use the toilet ... quite grim, really. I'd hate for a partner to feel that way. I'd like her to know that she can get off the pedestal and fart when she needs to. [;)] I'm not sure I understand. Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be? Based on Peon's posting history (and I can sometimes have a memory like an elephant :p), I don't believe this is what he meant at all. He has never impressed me as being a fantasist wanker (or else he's got me fooled!) and likes to keep it real as in multi-dimensional, to get beyond personae projections. Just my [sm=2cents.gif].

NookieNotes -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 1:23:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko 100% agreed, in fact I have come at odds with many members who might perceive me to enjoy "I'm a groveling worm" types merely because I like to always be in control and greatly...so greatly dislike coercion of any kind from my subs. And I am often seen as very nice, my dominance flies under the radar in most gatherings, but I am quietly and incredibly picky, so they rarely see me with anyone who is not just perfectly behaved within my specifications and needs. quote: quote: I love lighthearted, smart assed, fun-loving, humorous subs. I do not do badly-behaved, or spoiled. Exactly this. Add to that demanding. No, thank you. Right. shudders quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal No straight Domme I know (for lack of association with very many non-heteros) wants anything to do with a bratty sub, myself included. And yes, the door can hit him in the arse on the way out. [8D] I have seen this. Although I have to say, I see it A LOT more in male dominant/female sub relationships. quote: Playful, light resistance play, and a certain assertive deferentiality isn't being bratty and isn't indicative of lack of submissiveness on the part of the sub. I also like to kid around with my sub, just as long as he doesn't get disrespectful towards me. From what I've seen, a real brat isn't a submissive. He is more of a (kinky) bottom, or what we might call a DO-ME sub. Yes, exactly. And there are a bunch of those out there. quote: Based on Peon's posting history (and I can sometimes have a memory like an elephant :p), I don't believe this is what he meant at all. He has never impressed me as being a fantasist wanker (or else he's got me fooled!) and likes to keep it real as in multi-dimensional, to get beyond personae projections. It's why I'm asking. It seems like that is what was meant by the way it was written. But I prefer to ask, rather than make assumptions. smiles

MsWickedPig -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 3:06:23 AM)
Oh wow! I cannot help but to jump in here... While going thru OP's initial statement, beyond the curiosity of what the difference is between sissyfication and what CD is. As being a student, have found myself in the positing in writing about such anthropological/sociological effect. *I am in no way, shape or form, trying to dispute anything that everyone has already said... I just noticed, that everyone had very solid and valid arguments, and that the OP disappeared.... What I wondered was which subject is this essay for, as it which would influence one's approach in the way they wrapped their minds around it and how they laid it out for final submission ;) Please excuse me if I missed a point. I'm just really intrigued as to what class this assignment fulfills? I did use this site as a reference advantage when writing about "BDSM as a subculture" and how much more deeper TG's(further than CD's) conviction is more important than a procedure :)

PeonForHer -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 3:17:00 AM)
quote: Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be? God no. That'd be looney.

PeonForHer -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 3:19:22 AM)
quote: Based on Peon's posting history (and I can sometimes have a memory like an elephant :p), I don't believe this is what he meant at all. He has never impressed me as being a fantasist wanker (or else he's got me fooled!) and likes to keep it real as in multi-dimensional, to get beyond personae projections. Thank you, Fiery. :-)

NookieNotes -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 3:31:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsWickedPig ...which would influence one's approach in the way they wrapped their minds around it and how they laid it out for final submission ;) Well this is exactly the point, yes? How the different behaviors are viewed by each party, separately, then as a whole. quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be? God no. That'd be looney. LOL! It is looney, and why I asked.

MsWickedPig -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 3:52:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: MsWickedPig ...which would influence one's approach in the way they wrapped their minds around it and how they laid it out for final submission ;) "Well this is exactly the point, yes? How the different behaviors are viewed by each party, separately, then as a whole." Indeed so, and thank you for your acknowledgement. As to why I just jumped in while still feeling a bit lost in it all.... Because yes, that is the main objective and perspective one should hold when attempting to write about such a topic... but the OP "lit the fire" and now it's just a blaze.. With amazing points.. But, I just don't see OP's main point was because he was already contradictory in his initial statement, in regards to what the topic was and his indifference. I shrug Couldn't help but to jump in, it's just the student in me. :)

searching4mysir -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 4:18:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Absolutely but don't you just love the diversity :) Without a doubt. :) Now if only some subs could see that and not treat you as interchangeable fembots.

NookieNotes -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 5:39:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir Now if only some subs could see that and not treat you as interchangeable fembots. I actually love this. It shows me immediately who is not worth my time. smiles

MariaB -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 9:35:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir Now if only some subs could see that and not treat you as interchangeable fembots. I actually love this. It shows me immediately who is not worth my time. smiles Hhah we think alike!

NookieNotes -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 9:37:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir Now if only some subs could see that and not treat you as interchangeable fembots. I actually love this. It shows me immediately who is not worth my time. smiles Hhah we think alike! thumbs up

Bhruic -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 11:40:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YouName So, if the general sissy goes through this process to feel submissive, to feel humiliated and owned then how can possibly a very feminine dominant live with a partner who has this perception on gender roles? It's not clear to me what you are saying here. Are you saying that a sissy boy has a perception of a gender role for himself? Are you implying it is a positive or negative role? Personally, I don't see "sissy boy" as a gender role itself, but just a kink. If anything it is the obviation of a gender role... on the assumption that the sissy boy finds the behavior satisfyingly humiliating because it is in opposition to a traditional gender role for men. I'm not sure what the conflict for the Feminine Dominant would be? Presumably she is with the sissy boy because that appeals to her. It sounds like you are suggesting that a Feminine Dominant wants to dominate a masculine submissive... which I am sure is not always the case.

Bhruic -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 11:47:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: YouName Can someone here make the distinction between a sissy and a cross-dresser because to my untrained eye you seem to be blurring the line for me. To me, a sissy is a male-identified person forced to dress as female for the purposes of servitude and humiliation. A cross-dresser chooses to dress as the gender other than their identified gender because they enjoy the dress up (or perhaps feel more comfortable). Very different attitudes. I always understood sissy boy to be more about attitude... a male submissive who presents as emotionally fragile and acquiescent... perhaps weepy or effette. Perhaps somewhat (as traditional stereotypes go) feminine, but not specifically as pertains to clothing. Is that incorrect? I have one friend who is a cross dressing Sax player (and a great one) and another friend who is a super confidant and flamboyant Drag Queen... I never thought of either of them as at all "sissy"... quite the contrary.

NookieNotes -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 12:12:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic I always understood sissy boy to be more about attitude... a male submissive who presents as emotionally fragile and acquiescent... perhaps weepy or effette. Perhaps somewhat (as traditional stereotypes go) feminine, but not specifically as pertains to clothing. Yes, also that. Actually could apply to any male in that use. That is the slur usage, but that's not how it's being used here, except that it was sort of taken for their own. Men who are "forced" to dress as women for the purposes of servitude and humiliation, would likely also see themselves as sissies (or fear that they are) in your use of the slang. Versus crossdressers who dress that way because they like it, and it empowers their true selves.

YouName -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/20/2014 8:24:34 PM)
MsWickedPig The essay wasn't anything special. Just some thoughts on modern left feminists general support for transgender rights and those who cross stormy oceans to reach their ideals. Ideals formed from roles that on the other hand supposedly do not exist for they are social constructs. Ideals that even if they did exist need to be destroyed for they are unnecessary in modern society. I considered a longer introduction but since I have very limited experience and knowledge about the subject (of Sissies) I thought it best to introduce it in such a way that the discussion would grow from the kernel that I planted. If you need a companion to brazen the winds and step onto the fire which licks you and leaves marks but does not kill then feel free to contact me, I'll check my PMs once or twice a week. Maybe it's time to do more than just shoulder a burden.

FieryOpal -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/21/2014 2:01:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: YouName Can someone here make the distinction between a sissy and a cross-dresser because to my untrained eye you seem to be blurring the line for me. To me, a sissy is a male-identified person forced to dress as female for the purposes of servitude and humiliation. A cross-dresser chooses to dress as the gender other than their identified gender because they enjoy the dress up (or perhaps feel more comfortable). Very different attitudes. I always understood sissy boy to be more about attitude... a male submissive who presents as emotionally fragile and acquiescent... perhaps weepy or effette. Perhaps somewhat (as traditional stereotypes go) feminine, but not specifically as pertains to clothing. Is that incorrect? I have one friend who is a cross dressing Sax player (and a great one) and another friend who is a super confidant and flamboyant Drag Queen... I never thought of either of them as at all "sissy"... quite the contrary. Bhruic, for my own curiosity's sake, are either of your cross-dressing friends bisexual? Hetero? The first submissive male I ever met 25 years ago, who openly declared himself (openly per dating, not openly as in publicly) as being submissive, later confided in me that he liked to cross-dress. I was the only person he had told this to at the time, perhaps about 6 months after I had befriended him. He had an older sister who used to dress him up as a girl. Not only did he love the doting attention lavished upon him, but he had always felt protected by her. A part of him wanted to recapture these feelings. I bring this up because there are motivations which aren't humiliation-based (as in Forced Feminization) as perhaps portrayed in FemDom porn. All I know is that there is a difference between a man with a sissy mindset and a man without one. My cross-dressing friend is more like a sissy but he's asexual. Originally in college, he had a jealous girlfriend who insisted he wear panties so that he would be less inclined to stray or to try to cheat on her (knowing that he'd get laughed at by co-eds). This was a "forced" vanilla situation he went along with. Later he had a poly lesbian Mistress who would tell him to dress in drag convincingly and stop by the store to pick up something for her en route to her house on the weekends. She kept him in chastity, and he wasn't allowed to have sexual relations with either of her 2 female slaves. After 2 years of that, he became addicted to wearing a cockcage and became impotent. She gave him a girl's name. Not long after we met, he asked me to choose a different girl's name for him (as a friend) so he wouldn't be reminded of her, and we did.

Bhruic -> RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification) (12/21/2014 7:45:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: YouName Can someone here make the distinction between a sissy and a cross-dresser because to my untrained eye you seem to be blurring the line for me. To me, a sissy is a male-identified person forced to dress as female for the purposes of servitude and humiliation. A cross-dresser chooses to dress as the gender other than their identified gender because they enjoy the dress up (or perhaps feel more comfortable). Very different attitudes. I always understood sissy boy to be more about attitude... a male submissive who presents as emotionally fragile and acquiescent... perhaps weepy or effette. Perhaps somewhat (as traditional stereotypes go) feminine, but not specifically as pertains to clothing. Is that incorrect? I have one friend who is a cross dressing Sax player (and a great one) and another friend who is a super confidant and flamboyant Drag Queen... I never thought of either of them as at all "sissy"... quite the contrary. Bhruic, for my own curiosity's sake, are either of your cross-dressing friends bisexual? Hetero? The first submissive male I ever met 25 years ago, who openly declared himself (openly per dating, not openly as in publicly) as being submissive, later confided in me that he liked to cross-dress. I was the only person he had told this to at the time, perhaps about 6 months after I had befriended him. He had an older sister who used to dress him up as a girl. Not only did he love the doting attention lavished upon him, but he had always felt protected by her. A part of him wanted to recapture these feelings. I bring this up because there are motivations which aren't humiliation-based (as in Forced Feminization) as perhaps portrayed in FemDom porn. All I know is that there is a difference between a man with a sissy mindset and a man without one. My cross-dressing friend is more like a sissy but he's asexual. Originally in college, he had a jealous girlfriend who insisted he wear panties so that he would be less inclined to stray or to try to cheat on her (knowing that he'd get laughed at by co-eds). This was a "forced" vanilla situation he went along with. Later he had a poly lesbian Mistress who would tell him to dress in drag convincingly and stop by the store to pick up something for her en route to her house on the weekends. She kept him in chastity, and he wasn't allowed to have sexual relations with either of her 2 female slaves. After 2 years of that, he became addicted to wearing a cockcage and became impotent. She gave him a girl's name. Not long after we met, he asked me to choose a different girl's name for him (as a friend) so he wouldn't be reminded of her, and we did. My Drag Queen friend (who's drag name is Jewanna Duwitt) is gay. Jewanna is quite tall and imposing, and a flamboyant and confident character. I think she came about as an expression of confidence in her sexuality after coming out late in life. My cross dressing friend who plays the sax... I don't know. She is a 24/7 crossdresser and well known in the gay village here in TO, but I only know her in a music context so I don't know how she identifies in terms of sexual preference. People openly crossdressing in public is not an uncommon thing in Toronto, and people are largely unphased by it... one of the things I love about this town.

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