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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 1/15/2015 6:57:29 AM   
caelestis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stebbinsd


Masochism, however, does not make any sense. The whole point of pain - from a scientific perspective - is that it's so uncomfortable that you want to avoid circumstances that trigger it.



This part is especially untrue. Did you know that an endorphin rush is chemically very similar to an opiate high? A quick google search can lead you to more information on the topic. Being in pain does all sorts of interesting chemical stuff to your brain.

_____________________________

"We are a fountain of shimmering contradictions, most of us. Beautiful in the concept, if we're lucky, but frequently tedious or regrettable as we flesh ourselves out."
— Gregory Maguire



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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 1/15/2015 8:37:38 AM   
sheisreeds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

I actually didn't speak of psychology of pain though. That is a whole different subject entirely and highly personal to each of us. From a biological standpoint, pain is biochemical and physiological. What each of us does with what we feel...well, that's where psychology comes into play.



Actually, the majority of our perception of pain is psychological. Pain in and of itself is a stimulus which can cause some enduring sensation and reflexive actions, but most of what we consider to be the feeling of pain is psychological suffering. It is actually hard wired in the brain, the pain centers sit right by the part of the brain that is responsible for most emotions, the amygdala and the hippocampus.

Everyone feels pain, in all instances however not everyone feels suffering. There are endless ways that we can impact our emotional response to pain. There are endless responses we can have. The brain's preferred pathway of pain stimulus received by the thalamus triggering emotional perception of pain and suffering is not the only one. For instance if we ascribe love and arousal as a response to the pain response the majority of what we know of as pain is not being experienced. Human beings mostly rely on the end of the process in regards to the interpretation of stimuli. Our emotional response to things is largely how we sort out memory in the brain, along with how we remember things. We have countless ways to perceive stimuli in that regard, pain being only one of them.

Peer reviewed article on the psychology of pain: http://williams.medicine.wisc.edu/painpsychology.pdf

This is exactly why psychology is getting so involved in the treatment of chronic pain.

However, when it's pain I enjoy I no longer view it as full on masochism, same goes with my partner and my practice of sadism. Fully engaged masochism for me is when I am experiencing psychological suffering for the benefit of another, which is also the sadomasochistic aspect in our relationship in regards to power exchange.

Our intimacy tends to be so edgy because so many things that used to provoke a response of suffering, no longer do. Also, the deeper down the rabbit hole we go the more that pain AND suffering is something we both seek out. We tend towards finding twisted new psychological ways to bring out fear, humiliation, and a healthy sort of shame. Along with constantly bringing new physical techniques/tools into the relationship.

New pain sensations, and a fight/flight and/or negative emotional state are great for evoking suffering.

Pain AND suffering are DEEPLY intimate and erotic for me. Pain gets me wet, suffering binds at the soul. It is pure vulnerability and connection for me, and the flow of suffering feeding another is my favorite means of experiencing power exchange, from either end of the spectrum.



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Oh my darling, give me reason
give me something to believe in



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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 1/15/2015 10:30:10 AM   
SeekingTrinity


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My previous post in the thread was not addressing the psychology of pain since it is beyond my skills set to speak on that aspect. My degree is in biology, so my post dealt with the physiological aspect of pain...since it's what I know. I do not deny the psychological aspect of pain. It very much is a component. But it's just not an area I've got knowledge to speak on, so I can only address what I do know. I very much agree that there is a psychological component to pain. I just don't have any expertise to speak on it comfortably

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 1/15/2015 11:16:38 AM >

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 1/15/2015 3:28:27 PM   
sheisreeds


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I do have the professional credentials to speak on this subject, and the point of my post was that the psychology of pain is the majority, not just a part, of pain perception.

Pain is a neurophysiological and biopsych process. It's also not soft science, it is hard science.

Psychological treatment of pain remains semi-soft, though there is an incredibly strong evidence base.

_____________________________

~ s.

Oh my darling, give me reason
give me something to believe in



You need a spankin' baby!

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 1/15/2015 5:35:51 PM   
SeekingTrinity


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And again, I'm not arguing with you. I've never denied the psychological aspect of pain. I maintain there is a physical and a psychological component to pain. If you are saying it's all psychological, then we can agree to disagree.

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 1/15/2015 6:19:39 PM >

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 1/15/2015 6:36:20 PM   
cloudboy


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I think masochists have a different chemical reaction to pain --- probably a more active endorphin release level.

• Although everyone into the BDSM scene has heard of endorphins, very few people really understand what they are, how they work, what the “endorphin high” is all about, and how one can correctly induce the body to produce them.

• The endorphin high is caused by a bunch of natural, morphine-like chemicals the body pumps into the brain to reduce a person’s sensitivity to pain and raising the pain threshold. The fact that the body seems to release these endorphins in measured ‘loads’ is a key to understanding how to manipulate the body to produce these loads and release them into the body and brain region when the load is ready.

According to the article below, bottoms have six levels of endorphin release -- and a skilled top knows how to time the stimulation of a bottom to get there.

http://friskybusinessboutique.com/the-endorphin-levels-in-bdsm/

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/15/2015 6:37:34 PM >

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 1/15/2015 7:20:27 PM   
SeekingTrinity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

And again, I'm not arguing with you. I've never denied the psychological aspect of pain. I maintain there is a physical and a psychological component to pain. If you are saying it's all psychological, then we can agree to disagree.


Meant to say biological and psychological component to pain. Outside of the edit window though

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 2/18/2015 11:01:21 AM   
vivaciousgrace


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I agree with some of the above.
I have a relatively high pain threshold, but the pain I feel is still pain. It still goddamn hurts!
The masochist in me loves the eroticism of allowing someone i trust to do that to me.
And although the pain itself will make me cry out, try to escape, bring me to tears... alongside that MUCH nicer parts of my anatomy will be tingling with pleasure and begging for attention as well.

I am a great lover of contrasts.
They make me REALLY horny LOL

Sarah x

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 2/23/2015 9:31:37 PM   
Takenintx


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Yes I do feel pain, but I do think I process it differently than most. Years ago when I was a teen I had a cyst develop on my underarm. When I finally went to the Dr. and he examined me he told me I had a high pain threshold because I was barely bothered by it. I didn't even know I had the thing, as my mom found it while I was trying on swimsuits. He lanced it with no anesthetic and I went on my merry way. Well not merry really, I missed the swim party as a result, but that's another story.
Later as an adult taking and competing in Judo, my Sensei called me a masochist because when I was in pain, I became a fearless fighter. Instead of backing away from the pain I would embrace it and use it to my advantage. I fought in one tournament like the Karate Kid, balanced on one foot, with the ankle on the other side puffed up to an alarming size. Not bad for a large middle aged woman.
I do find as I have gotten older, pain bothers me more, but on a good day, Master can really whale on me and I just love it.
Recently however, I was hospitalized due to a bout of diverticulitis. They gave me morphine and it was not until it kicked in that I realized how much pain I had been in. In the absence of pain, I was able to look back and process the pain I had been experiencing and it was pretty intense. One day of morphine and I had had enough of that though, and although I am still in some pain, can feel it diminish each day.
In fact already I am craving pain, fantasizing about it and wanting its sweet taste....properly administered of course. :)

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 3/23/2015 7:57:07 PM   
SaintLeather


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I am a masochist and I believe it makes just as much sense as sadism. Got to push the cave man theory aside. I've never read any about the propensities to sadism leading to more viable offspring, or heard of any evolutionary psychology on that topic.

Sadism is paraphilia, just like the smell of leather, latex, what some have for boots or even feet.

The concepts of what does pain do for a masochist can just be as easy flipped to what sadist get out of it. Why do you like to give pain, what does that do for you? Do you do that with everyone? Or it's it just in some contexts it works for you? It's only consensual or is it just the way you are? Same with dominance and submission are you always that way or just with one person etc......

Submission is the flip to dominance, guess what... That is completely reciprocal in nature. Just like the sadist masochist relationships. Hierarchies have to have a reason and a benefit for the people other wise they crumble.

As for physical pain... Let me attempt explaining it in something basic and perhaps relatable. Not all pain is across the board good for everyone. It's like sex for a 100% straight man. Do they like sex sure .....yes. Given that model saying because a straight man likes sex he wants to be anal penetrated by large objects. While it is still sex it isn't the same thing, is it? So receiving pain and liking it doesn't mean someone wants all forms of it. It's all in what the likes are and the reciprocal nature of the two or three or more engaged in those behaviors. Everyone one is different and it's jacked but it just can't be explained as its just this or just that.

So my answer is we all feel different and I guess in the short version I process the consensual infliction of pain differently.

-St.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 4/15/2015 3:59:00 PM   
SuddenlySatyr


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No two people orgasm the same. There are trends that stimulate orgasm in people but experiences and needs vary. Physiologically the sexes have similarities in a bit of a ven diagram and there are certain structures that we can identify as the processes that exist to achieve orgasmic response. They are not so different that SRS when done effectively can not replicate those differentiated structures. To say post op orgasm for MTF is not the same, or the same, for cis women with any certainty without knowing how advanced the procedure was in terms innervation or even how the doctor performs the surgery (there are different approaches) is jumping the gun.

Pain and pleasure travel through the same nerves. From what we can observe of the brain pleasure and pain activate the same areas with peripheral variation in activity. There are physical and perceptual thresholds that limit how much nerve stimulation you can consciously experience. Keeping this in mind it is worth noting that we codify pain and pleasure as different because it is our inclination to observe things as a dichotomy when considering their relationship rather than as they are and existing within intersections.

Do masochistics feel pain in the traditional sense? Well do any of us? What traditions / standards are you referring to? Masochistics often enjoy the effects and catharsis of pain. Some the challenge. Many sexualize it. Whatever the frame under which one experiences pain it does not imply inherent neurological abnormality.

< Message edited by SuddenlySatyr -- 4/15/2015 4:00:25 PM >

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 7/24/2015 11:25:36 PM   
MrNiklas


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Easy to answer.

Sex is just a mentally feeling.

So the Satisfaction (Michael and Stones) women or men gets by receiving some pain (Michael Jackson - Beat It)
is just a sign of love and submission.

It is not (maybe?) about the pain itself - its just about the will to show the willingness to give oneself to someone else.
So the thought and idea, can pretty much be enough.

To pick up a horse-whip and just see a woman ready for the slap.
The whip doesnt has to come - the wait and the moment for it to come, can be just enough.

So it is just about the feeling of wanting to be giving, letting someone else be in total control of your body.










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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 7/28/2015 11:23:30 PM   
Foxynfeisty


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I suppose the reason someone enjoys pain is different for everyone. Personally I don't "like pain" I like the adrenaline and endorphin rush that comes from enduring pain. it makes me enjoy the pleasurable acts with even more appreciation. Like they say , with out experiencing sadness you wouldn't understand joy, ect.....and so on ;)

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 7/29/2015 9:25:27 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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Sorry, Niklas, you don't appear to understand that masochists exist.

A masochist likes pain, and will often feel pain as pleasure. There are many masochists out there who are not sub in the least and could care less about taking pain to please someone. They take it to please themselves.

There is also a point (this point is different for everyone) where a person becomes so inundated with sensory input that ALL input is viewed as pleasurable, even though it may be highly painful. I know, I've been there.

A dom can seriously damage someone in that state. Reasons to know and trust your dominant.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 7/29/2015 10:02:00 AM   
daniel1973


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I've thought about it - not how it feels, I know that - but how to describe it. The best word I can come up with is 'ambiguous'. The other instances having been described here are quite clear, they signal that something is wrong. I also have migraine attacks, I always describe that kind of pain (ever vomited because it hurt so much? I have that several times a year) as the kind I would not wish my worst enemy to have.

When my master inflicts it it's quite different. It still hurts, of course, but at the same time I enjoy getting attention, the fact that he has it under control - he can make it worse, much worse, or make it go away, just as he pleases. I'm supposed to feel that way, and it's a part of my existence as a slave, and it's OK.

Master likes the face that I make when I suffer but don't want to show it. He doesn't want it to hurt too much though. The other day we left those nipple clamps the way they should not. Said Master: Danny when I take them off the pain is going to be excruciating. Please don't think that was ever my intention. But rub'em, boy, rub'em!

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 7/29/2015 10:18:59 AM   
daniel1973


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

There is also a point (this point is different for everyone) where a person becomes so inundated with sensory input that ALL input is viewed as pleasurable, even though it may be highly painful. I know, I've been there.


I've never had that. The nearest I can relate was that I took what I thought was a cold shower, if it's really icy cold it kind of hurts, so I was lucky to realize that somebody had messed around with the controls and the water was actually boiling!

That said, when my master wants to drive me into a frenzy he tickles me.
Not (necessarily) kid stuff I can tell you - if I'm not mistaken they used it as an actual form of torture in the middle ages - but my reactions are easy to interpret.
When I go "Aaah, please stop Sir! Nooo!" It's just right. When I'm silently trying to take the bed apart it's probably time to give me a break.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 7/29/2015 10:30:43 AM   
daniel1973


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So we can still remain with Cicero's saying that nobody likes pain for it's own sake?

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 2/12/2016 9:52:24 AM   
newatdis


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"Some unfortunate women find orgasm painful. If one can accept and understand that, then it becomes easier to imagine how pain can be found orgasmic"

What if a woman has NEVER had an orgasm with a man, could they be using pain for orgasmic pleasure, makes me wonder. This entire thread has been very interesting to read.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 10/14/2016 7:48:34 AM   
willeatcum69


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No we enjoy different types of pain. Sometimes i need to be beaten all to the point of welts. sometimes i need to, as a switch inflict those welts. As a masochist i have limits to types of pain. Open communication between the top and bottom, Dom or sub, are essential. Whether I am the top or bottom I always find in what areas pain is needed and apply accordingly or have it applied to me. Its all open and everyones pain=pleasure is different.

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RE: Do masochists feel pain in the traditional sense? - 10/15/2016 6:10:08 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: suhlut

I highly doubt the orgasm feels different in a man versus a woman.. I think its the same. I used to spend too much time wondering what it might feel like to be a man.. but I have since learned various things that convinces me that orgasms in humans is the same sensation.. the only real difference would be the sensation of what penetration would feel like.. rather then the sensation of what BEING penetrated feels like.. There lies the final smidge I have left of penis envy....and its really not envy any longer... its more "penis curiosity"


I don't know if it does or not. I have had guys tell me it physically hurts when they cum and I have never thought of an orgasm as painful, nor have I ever heard another women say it was. So maybe they are. What I do know is until they come up with a procedure to create a fully functional penis or vagina in someone of the opposite sex, we never will. Despite the ops claim.

as to the pain part of this conversation, I have smacked a few masochists in my day and from the way they yelped, I would have to say they felt it. And I know for myself, yup those nerve endings work just fine.

No clue why the idea of one person putting a needle in me makes me smile and the idea of a shot from the doctor makes me cringe. It just does.

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