quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

igor I believe you and I agree here somewhat that if a radical Christian group based in the US were throwing acid in little girls faces or shooting them in the head....and or....invading a school and murdering helpless little boys and girls... and or...setting bombs in subways killing hundreds...and or...cutting off the heads of journalists....and or... placing bombs on airplanes.... and or... sending suicide bombers into family restaurants...and or... setting off road side bombs... and or...blowing up buildings with thousands of people....There would be a tremendous uproar of not only Christian leaders but Christians themselves. This radical group would receive no aid or indifference from fellow Christians and within days would be pointed out and destroyed or captured.

This is not happening in the Muslim world in my opinion... We are always talking of the tiny minority of Muslims that are radical... but what is also reality is there is but a tiny minority of Muslims willing to aggressively speak out and take action against the radicals among them.

Butch

Where was the outrage of Christians in the mid nineties when Westboro Baptist was openly advocating violence towards the GLBT? As a queer activist in the nineties I regular got hate mail from right wing Christians saying things along the lines that they prayed that I got raped. What made it even more obscene was that I was 15 at the time, and that was an easy to know fact. I was still on Westboro's list of website and queer advocates to attack.

When Matthew Sheppard was killed radical Christians advocated that kind of violence

The Westboro Baptist Church: Openly denounced by, and not affiliated with. The two largest Baptist denominations, the Baptist World Alliance and the Southern Baptist convention. Also denounced by the United Methodists ( go us! ), the Evangelical Alliance, etc..

Spoken out against by such Christian, conservative folk as Bill O'Reilly.

Defended by such liberal advocates as the ACLU and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. oh...and the U. S. Supreme Court.

As for Matthew Shepard, what...specific...radical Christian groups advocated violence against gays? I have heard preaching against the "sin of homosexuality" but I've not heard "ye must go out and kill the gays in the most dramatic ways possible".

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

As I said, they have done cases on both sides of the spectrum. Your take...and their own...on whether they are liberal or not is your take. I see an organization that does support the occasional conservative but whose focus seems to be on liberal positions.

And nowhere did I say that they do not defend the Constitution. I did say that they defend things that are abhorrent to most Americans. For example...they oppose the distribution of child pornography...yay...but not possession of child pornography. They also defended the Neo-Nazis' right to march and make hateful speeches as long as they did not call for violence. I believe that both of these are abhorrent to most Americans...but I do think they're right in one of the above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds

Fallwell whether you like him or not was a "leader". Robertson was only a hair less full of vitriol and to many was considered a leader.

There is a difference between not supporting a group, and actually doing something to stop them. So what you wouldn't open into a business agreement with them. Plenty of mosques actively refuse to do business with their more radical counterparts. Especially muslims in the western world.

Active campaigns to shut down radical Christian hitlist websites would have been totally awesome in the nineties. I would have been so much safer, and so thankful.

Yet, that didn't happen. Hate crime bills didn't get passed.

And my point in all this is not that Christians are bad. I think Christianity is at heart a beautiful religion full of good intentions. I actively support individuals who seek fellowship in Christian communities, and use their faith as a core tool and part of their recovery.

I also feel the same about Islam.

There are bad ideologues in both religions, and at times complacency in both. Social change always has been and always will be slow.

Hate crime is thought crime, it is crime based on what a person is thinking.
If they have committed a real crime get them for it.
People didn't opposed hate crime laws because they supported hate crimes but they opposed the concept of thought crimes. Which to get back to the subject is exactly what happened yesterday, they were punishing the French journalists not for what they did but for what they thought.

Hate crime laws weren't for thought crimes, they were for physical crimes. Just as different factors nationwide impact the sentence for a murder, if hate was a factor that was to be considered also. AND many states had hate crime laws already on the books, they just wouldn't add LBGT to the current law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Such bullshit Bama,hate crime laws look at whether hate was a factor in the motivation for the violence committed during the criminal act.
It's not prosecuting hateful thoughts...you can have as many of those as your little rightist brain wants .
Proof of the puddings right on tje page,Sanity has never been prosecuted(that we know of) [8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Let me call my police contacts in France and I'll get right back to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am sorry peon but you are wrong...

Dang it… I wish you all would quit being so racist… These poor men are just insane… not terrorists… I mean come on… in Australia a tortured mentally ill Muslim, not responsible for his actions, murdered two innocents… Surely you can see how killing 12 must mean they are REALLY not responsible for their actions… come lets hold hands and sing…Kumbaya.

We all know these noble men were driven insane by the Zionists and their lackeys …American oil hungry Imperialists. No wonder they lashed out… come lets sing the second verse.

I hope the American red necked Christians out for Muslim blood see how the French and German citizens react to the poor tortured men’s actions of reaching out for help against the imperialistic infidels of this world. They would never react with anger… they will all take to the streets and hug every Muslim they can find… you will see… Now come the refrain… harmonize… all together now…….

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Let me call my police contacts in France and I'll get right back to you.

Well?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

It has been reported that the 18 year old who surrendered had already been convicted of terrorism in France, why was he out walking around?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds

And to summarize my point, I can't think of any mainstream religion that is innocent of violence.

Which to me means that religion isn't the problem.

It is hatred and/or indifference to those who are different than ourselves. Which by the way is coded in our genes.

The Crusades were centuries ago, this was yesterday. Moral equivalence is another form of appeasement.
It is often forgotten that the Crusades were a response to Islamic conquests, they didn't just come up with it out of the blue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

5 pages so far, of basically the same crap.
I am still "waiting" on a plan of action.
Oh! that will never happen, carry on.
WTF

In the aftermath of 9/11, we were told that Al Quada was evil personified. Now after much loss of life and treasure, AQ seems to be defeated as a credible fighting force except in a few local pockets such as Yemen or Somalia. In the void left by AQ's demise, a far more vicious outfit, IS has emerged and now we are told that IS is evil personified.

We were told that we were engaged in a 'War against Terrorism' when really we were engaged in a 'War on an Idea/Islamist Ideology'. Military strategies such as that conducted against AQ may generate local successes but it is clear that the demise of one terrorist outfit simply leads to the emergence of a newer even worse group of thugs (eg IS). The long term utility of a purely military strategy must be questionable.

Few of us have any real idea what success in the 'War on Terrorism/Islamist ideologies' might look like. The sheer impossibility of preventing all terrorist attacks against soft targets such as Charlie Hedbo, or deranged individuals or 'lone wolf' attackers is self evident. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be trying - I am saying that we ought to have a clear idea of what it is we are seeking to achieve, a clear set of goals.

quote:

Butch, your Islamophobia is showing again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Butch, your Islamophobia is showing again.

No just pointing out hypocrisy.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I see you were quick on the edit where you had stated you were just having fun. I am glad you finally cottoned on.