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RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 12:04:43 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

Musicmystery
I haven't seen anything that suggests the "unreliability" is anything other than an NRA talking point.............It's clear why criminals would oppose smart guns. It's not clear--beyond the NRA's fund-raising-friendly-frenzy--why anyone else would.


I'm suggesting it. I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject. There are enough things on even the most reliable firearms that have been known to fail. Now add more componants and batteries to the mix and it's just more stuff that can fail. I'm not going to do the research for you. You can have your misguided biased opinion. While my opinion may be somewhat biased it's not misguided. If ya really want to know why anyone would appose smart guns, try googling *reliability of smart guns*.

The person who worked the smart technology for the gun they were going to put on sale in CA says they are not yet reliable.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 12:09:59 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

Musicmystery
I haven't seen anything that suggests the "unreliability" is anything other than an NRA talking point.............It's clear why criminals would oppose smart guns. It's not clear--beyond the NRA's fund-raising-friendly-frenzy--why anyone else would.


I'm suggesting it. I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject. There are enough things on even the most reliable firearms that have been known to fail. Now add more componants and batteries to the mix and it's just more stuff that can fail. I'm not going to do the research for you. You can have your misguided biased opinion. While my opinion may be somewhat biased it's not misguided. If ya really want to know why anyone would appose smart guns, try googling *reliability of smart guns*.

The person who worked the smart technology for the gun they were going to put on sale in CA says they are not yet reliable.


Ya got a link fer that by any chance ? You don't think Muse is going to look something up that doesn't support his misguided opinion ?

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 12:14:06 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Exactly. Your claim, your evidence.

I did actually for reliability, hence my point that I haven't seen any arguments beyond NRA talking points. But certainly others may be aware where this information exists, and can pull it up.

If they can't, then yes, its existence is dubious.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 12:56:30 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

Musicmystery
I haven't seen anything that suggests the "unreliability" is anything other than an NRA talking point.............It's clear why criminals would oppose smart guns. It's not clear--beyond the NRA's fund-raising-friendly-frenzy--why anyone else would.


I'm suggesting it. I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject. There are enough things on even the most reliable firearms that have been known to fail. Now add more componants and batteries to the mix and it's just more stuff that can fail. I'm not going to do the research for you. You can have your misguided biased opinion. While my opinion may be somewhat biased it's not misguided. If ya really want to know why anyone would appose smart guns, try googling *reliability of smart guns*.

The person who worked the smart technology for the gun they were going to put on sale in CA says they are not yet reliable.


Ya got a link fer that by any chance ? You don't think Muse is going to look something up that doesn't support his misguided opinion ?

Unfortunately I saw the story last summer so no, as with the NRA site even if he did he would pretend that it supports his position but I will see if I can find it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 12:58:11 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Shhh. The grown-ups are talking.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 1:06:22 PM   
BamaD


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Both Keane and Sugarman say that smart gun technology might even make owning a gun less safe, because owners might be less careful with their firearms.

And that is Josh Sugarman.

The article is titled

Why Both the Pro- and Anti-Gun Lobby Are Against 'Smart Guns'

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 1:16:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		For the whole article

www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/02/01/why-both-the-pro

or this from Forbes

www.forbes.com/sites/josephsteinberg/2014/05/04/smartguns


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 1:18:52 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, both are just speculation, beyond pointing out that if your gun needs a battery, a dead battery means a dead gun.

On their other point -- wouldn't the safety training you say is sufficient teach smart gun owners not to be careless?

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/28/2015 1:19:16 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 1:22:05 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

Musicmystery
I haven't seen anything that suggests the "unreliability" is anything other than an NRA talking point.............It's clear why criminals would oppose smart guns. It's not clear--beyond the NRA's fund-raising-friendly-frenzy--why anyone else would.


I'm suggesting it. I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject. There are enough things on even the most reliable firearms that have been known to fail. Now add more componants and batteries to the mix and it's just more stuff that can fail. I'm not going to do the research for you. You can have your misguided biased opinion. While my opinion may be somewhat biased it's not misguided. If ya really want to know why anyone would appose smart guns, try googling *reliability of smart guns*.

The person who worked the smart technology for the gun they were going to put on sale in CA says they are not yet reliable.


Ya got a link fer that by any chance ? You don't think Muse is going to consider something that doesn't support his opinion ?

Unfortunately I saw the story last summer so no, as with the NRA site even if he did he would pretend that it supports his position but I will see if I can find it.


Why bother, it's out there and there all lots of experts and police agencies saying the same thing. I doubt he'll be convinced even in the face of overwhelming evidence.


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 1:35:45 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Exactly. Your claim, your evidence.

I did actually for reliability, hence my point that I haven't seen any arguments beyond NRA talking points. But certainly others may be aware where this information exists, and can pull it up.

If they can't, then yes, its existence is dubious.


I've already done the critical thinking for you. If you were really interested in the subject you would educate yourself. There are literally hundreds of pages out there if, like I suggested in post #159, you google, * smart gun reliability*. Out there you'll even find that that NJ exempts police agencies from the smart gun law because........wait for it.......here it comes...........their dubious reliability.





_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 1:39:02 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		When someone says a car is unreliable, and I ask why, they tell me the problems.

You keep repeating unreliable, but you can't seem to come up with any unreliable features. In fact, the one unreliable factor brought up in this thread was mentioned by -- me (the potential battery problem).

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 1:45:25 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

.................you can't seem to come up with any unreliable features. In fact, the one unreliable factor brought up in this thread was mentioned by -- me (the potential battery problem).


Good for you. You're off to a good start

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 2:02:38 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		God help all those battery-impaired folk when they need their smoke detectors to work.

But no one is calling smoke detectors "unreliable."






< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/28/2015 2:03:34 PM >

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 2:06:09 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		NM

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RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 2:12:17 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

God help all those battery-impaired folk when they need their smoke detectors to work.

But no one is calling smoke detectors "unreliable."


So should we do away with them or keep them because they're better than nothing ?

Maybe the government could fund some research for smart smoke detectors




< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 1/28/2015 2:16:26 PM >

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 2:13:27 PM   
lovmuffin


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Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		OOPs

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 1/28/2015 2:15:30 PM >

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 2:16:34 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Don't be deliberately dense.

Smoke detectors depend on batteries, yet no one calls them unreliable -- they instead remind people to change the batteries once a year.

I'm pretty sure gun owners could be trained to do the same, and that failure to do so wouldn't be a fault of the gun.


(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 2:20:50 PM   
lovmuffin


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Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Don't be deliberately dense.

Smoke detectors depend on batteries, yet no one calls them unreliable -- they instead remind people to change the batteries once a year.






Yet even the ones that are hard wired in can fail let alone the ones with perfectly good batteries.


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 2:21:33 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

God help all those battery-impaired folk when they need their smoke detectors to work.

But no one is calling smoke detectors "unreliable."


So should we do away with them or keep them because they're better than nothing ?

Maybe the government could fund some research for smart smoke detectors




Of course no one wants us to go to something less reliable because they aren't perfect. Last time I had a battery run out in a fire detector it went off so I couldn't miss the fact that the battery was going. Maybe smart guns will do the same thing.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 2:27:10 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		When there's a design flaw. Like there are in firearms sometimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_malfunction



When there's a smoke alarm failure, it's pulled off the market.

Point is, much as you want to dance around it, the only "unreliable" feature anyone so far has named (and that was me!) is that is uses a battery.

Gun owners who can't master the art of the battery probably shouldn't have unsupervised access to firearms.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 180
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