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RE: Setting up for Failure - 2/28/2015 12:15:39 PM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
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Thank you Michael, I can see how that could be frustrating and a set up to fail..

Des: For myself, I couldn't be with someone that routinely set me up to fail.. It would be too damaging.. but

As an example: As I stated earlier, I have communication issues that I am upfront about..

Now all can be fine and dandy as long as the "talking" is quiet, rhythmic and patient. To use this analogy, that kind of conversation has my ak47 on single fire. All is good, but if I get into a conversation that is more of a faster pace, it is like my ak47 gets switched to automatic and I am just spraying bullets in their general direction hoping one of them hits the mark. That leaves way too much room for hurt and misunderstanding on both parties and a failure to ensue. I then blame myself for the shortcoming on my communication abilities and just create a big ole mess that may or may not end the dance.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 21

RE: Setting up for Failure - 2/28/2015 12:25:01 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

Thank you Michael, I can see how that could be frustrating and a set up to fail..

Des: For myself, I couldn't be with someone that routinely set me up to fail.. It would be too damaging.. but

As an example: As I stated earlier, I have communication issues that I am upfront about..

Now all can be fine and dandy as long as the "talking" is quiet, rhythmic and patient. To use this analogy, that kind of conversation has my ak47 on single fire. All is good, but if I get into a conversation that is more of a faster pace, it is like my ak47 gets switched to automatic and I am just spraying bullets in their general direction hoping one of them hits the mark. That leaves way too much room for hurt and misunderstanding on both parties and a failure to ensue. I then blame myself for the shortcoming on my communication abilities and just create a big ole mess that may or may not end the dance.

Honestly, it sounds more like an anger/control issue than communication. or, to go further with your analogy:

You're fine on the practice range but you lose it, in combat. Who flipped the switch from "semi" to "rock 'n' roll"?

Admittedly, in the "heat of battle", many people let their training go out the window. Working on that "staying cool under pressure" is where the sweet spot is.

My ladies know that if I'm raising my voice (usually, when having a good time. I come from Irish and Italian households), all is well. If I my voice gets softer and more even-rhythmed, I'm calculating my thoughts and words because I'm livid and I know, if I let that take over, I'm gonna say some shit I don't mean.

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/28/2015 12:33:44 PM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 22

RE: Setting up for Failure - 2/28/2015 12:41:07 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespot

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

Has a failure ever lead to an "ending of the dance" for you?

Yup. I made a very bad mistake. It was most definitely not done on purpose.
I was in love with him and he was my world.
He couldn't forgive me or focus on the million good things I did for him.
He couldn't get over my mistake and it changed how he viewed me.
So he left me.

This is a hard read because I can identify with this sentiment. When you meet someone who cares on this profound level, even when unrequited it is indeed precious. I think fundamentally it boils down to trust. I trust myself, like Exiled I can speak in absolutes regarding myself because I hold true to mywords always unless I am forced in a position to recant.
I do not know if the eating disorder issue was doomed from the get go but his manner of approach set it up for just that. All he did was put additional stress, agitation and anxiety on someone who was already sick.
If he made doctor appointments, went to her therapy sessions with her, used encouraging words daily then I'd be more convinced that he was ready to pour himself into her wellness.
I didn't want to respond to that thread at the time because I joined a group on fet for "Depression and Chronic Illness" primarily to address a girl who had an eating disorder. She has a slew of medical complications but a very supportive partner. I saw recently she posted a pic of her looking healthier and I "loved" it. I always hope when I post on fitness and athletic forums she reads my words like "food is fuel". I think this Dom on that thread saw her illness more as an inconvenience to himself rather than understanding how deeply supportive he needed to be other than barking an order. That I cannot respect, however I understand alternatively, a part of him couldn't understand it and probably thought he could save her since she was the one causing hurt to herself.
The fact is he gave her the impression he could save her and he couldn't. Was it abuse? Possibly I'm sure it devastated her, but I'm not sure he understood that.
To answer the original post, yes I have tried to make things work by breaking personal rules because that person seemed like a dream in a hand basket, in those cases I learned the hard way not to do so.
I also learned to always trust my judgement rather than the judgement of others in regards to my decision making. It is precisely why I can speak in absolutes and understand all what they entail, including "sickness and health". My "love" is not conditional.
ETA; Someone told me recently "I do xyz because my ex went through xyz, you don't know me."
Sometime later I expressed to him I too face difficulty on occasion and that not only he and his ex have a cross to carry, it's called "life".

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 2/28/2015 12:44:48 PM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to petitespot)

Post #: 23

RE: Setting up for Failure - 2/28/2015 3:17:56 PM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
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Hmmm, I see where you are coming from with that. I will just say.

When I get to the automatic fire level, it is from a place where I am utterly frustrated with myself. That I am failing to communicate what I am trying to say so what I end up doing is "firing" as much information about what I am trying to communicate in the hopes that one of those things creates like an ah ha moment. The problem for me is that if I reach that level I become very hard on myself, which I fear comes across bad, and I struggle to not shut down from what I can only describe as an "overload"...

Some of my problem is when I "engage" in a rapid fire style conversation, I am not only absorbing what the other person is trying to convey but all the information I have on the subject, so that unless I have a chance to stop, process everything and then proceed, I start to get frustrated because I just fire the thing that ends up at the forefront which may not always be the most prudent or accurate portrayal of what I want to communicate.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 24

RE: Setting up for Failure - 2/28/2015 3:29:53 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

I am starting to feel like that about the "inherently" discussion.
Its making me want to rip all my hair out. I completely do not have the capability to communicate how I see it in my head.

Its happened before with my guy too. Once resulting in me storming off to see a movie alone and him locking himself in our room (he can be a drama llama sometimes). We've basically just decided that when one of us gets in that mood its best to drop it, and wait until we can communicate about it clearer later.

I have real issues with handling both my own anger, and seeing others- so if we give each other a bit of space and time we usually forgive one another, even if we said terrible things to one another. That isn't often though- we just don't necessarily agree on certain things because I'm a hippy and he is not. I don't beat myself up about it anymore because we've worked out a way to handle that frustration.

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 25

RE: Setting up for Failure - 2/28/2015 4:03:26 PM

SinFix

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Joined: 4/1/2011
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I completely feel for you on that thread, my issues are what keep me off of threads as well..

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 26

RE: Setting up for Failure - 2/28/2015 4:15:25 PM

RockaRolla

Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline

I tend to focus more on the other person's intent when a misstep occurs more than what actually happens. If there's a miscommunication, I can own that and forgive/apologize if needed. If there was ill intent, I'll likely walk away. But I need to know what really happened before I make a decision like that, and that means communication.

I like to think I know myself fairly well, and can communicate what I do and don't want. If a situation arises where I'm not comfortable, I feel no shame in speaking up. This is not restricted to a scene or bedroom activities.

_____________________________

~Roxie

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 27

RE: Setting up for Failure - 2/28/2015 7:03:39 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

Hmmm, I see where you are coming from with that. I will just say.

When I get to the automatic fire level, it is from a place where I am utterly frustrated with myself. That I am failing to communicate what I am trying to say so what I end up doing is "firing" as much information about what I am trying to communicate in the hopes that one of those things creates like an ah ha moment. The problem for me is that if I reach that level I become very hard on myself, which I fear comes across bad, and I struggle to not shut down from what I can only describe as an "overload"...

Some of my problem is when I "engage" in a rapid fire style conversation, I am not only absorbing what the other person is trying to convey but all the information I have on the subject, so that unless I have a chance to stop, process everything and then proceed, I start to get frustrated because I just fire the thing that ends up at the forefront which may not always be the most prudent or accurate portrayal of what I want to communicate.

I sort of understand the dilemma now and I too deal with these moments to be honest. Usually it is due to knowing on some level that there is lack of understanding and my frustration from it and honestly, most times when I know I'm about to lose my temper I shut down completely, like I will pretend the person is not there. I know once when I did "love/care for" someone it happened in ways it typically wouldn't with most people. I like when things make sense, if they don't then I need them rationalized and if they're not I'm gonna prod you til it hurts until it is. This approach does not work with someone who has an impeccable ability to internalize, use bait and switch and there's no closure. I like to decisively know what something is so I can move forward without hesitation.
With me, here's the thing. I always say what I mean and mean what I say. I tend to be candid and matter-of-factedly as a result. Why? Not because I "don't give a damn" about the impression I create although that is true to some degree. I figure if someone can't accept me in truth then I'll keep on living in truth in spite of that. But it is also that I have an honor code I uphold always and I do not ever take that for granted. I know myself and I am honest with myself always. And I try to make those I bring close to me understand me very early on by presenting things about "ME" that they might not want to hear although it is true. I could oversell but there's no point in that. The things that sound like bragging like "It is almost impossible to lie to me" are true. It's me preparing you for what's to come. And it annoys me when despite all that and all someone knows of me they will believe I have motives or that I pander. Neither of those things are applicable to me.
The breakdown I feel occurs when there is a premise of misunderstanding. When an impression is created based on superficial things like looks, disposition, delivery of thoughts or current circumstance. It is difficult to replace the tangible with the intangible unless there is a constant reminder of the merit behind the intangible if it holds greater bearing.
Also I find it grossly vain and self centered when people will think I will lie about fundamental truths for personal gain/to misrepresent myself. That would mean I am going against everything I stand for just for your sake and that is beyond my capability.
ETA, maybe some of what I said you can relate to. I hate over talking a situation but it's when there are "holes" in a story or half truths are given or the obvious is ignored is when I can either try to reconcile or give up on some measure of understanding.
Example; a sub told me he and his ex broke up because she was a powerhouse executive, independent and strongwilled but she never asked for help and three times she felt like he abandoned her.
I can relate to this. I feel like if I am ever telling you I'm in distress, it's like "call 911" because it never happens. I never really think anyone would lend me their help anyway and that I can manage it on my own by becoming stronger. You burn out sometimes living that way. In his case, amazingly he thought leaving her on her own to solve it was the best thing.. That is the worst idea I have ever heard of, she does that with EVERYONE, you had to be the one to reach in and FORCE HER to allow you to help.
Anyway, I could so relate and told him, yes, exactly, she was right for breaking up with you. However I would never make him my sub because as I was talking he interjected and said "I'm not done". Fair to say a conversation like that will never happen again.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 2/28/2015 7:15:24 PM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to SinFix)

Post #: 28

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 12:08:44 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

The more I think about it, the more I am starting to think that the subject I hinted at, earlier today might belong here; especially since a minor example of it came up, this evening. So, with apologies to SinFix for denying the request earlier ...

First, I can't believe I should feel like I have to do this, but I do feel like I have to so:

*****DISCLAIMER*****

I am a heterosexual male dominant. As such, my only experience with D/s relationships is from that perspective. I am not generalizing. I have only ever dealt with female submissive ladies.

***END DISCLAIMER***

So ... something I have experienced more than once is how a lack of communication can cause a major issue that will, at times, end a relationship. I'm speaking about the (apparent) tendency of ladies to set me up to be their abuser.

A very minor example reared its ugly head, this evening, but I do need to give some background:

After a little while of being with Beth, she was staring at me, playing my guitar, one evening; so much so, it made me feel a bit uncomfortable. I asked her what was up and she said that she was amazed.

I told her it was no big deal. "In fact", I said "I can teach you how to play."

She didn't believe me and I demonstrated a really simple, well-known, song; the opening riff to "Smoke On the Water" by Deep Purple, which, when played as they do, can be done with one finger at a time.

That was about a year ago and it has been a bit of a slow go, but understand: there are many things that are much easier for humans to learn, when they're younger. I only mentioned this last for you guys to get some perspective. I have been nothing but supportive and encouraging of her progress because it is laudable. She can already play "Home Bound" by Ted Nugent (obviously, I play the harmony part with her).

For about the last week or so, she's been working on the opening riff to "Walk This Way" by Aerosmith. While the notes/fingering is not that tough, there are some techniques (hammer-ons/pull-offs and string scrapes) that are subtler nuances of playing which she hasn't had reason to work with, yet.

Tonight, I was giving her lesson and she just got this look on her face like she was flustered ... actually, almost sickened.

I said: "What's going on?"

"I get so frustrated, when I can't get it right .."

"Why are you frustrated?", I said "You're doing fine"

"No I'm not. You play it so much easier and better"

"Sweetheart, you've been playing for a year. I've been playing for thirty-seven of them"

"Yes, but this must bother you"

"Why would you say that? I think you're doing wonderfully!"

"Yes, but I just imagine your disappointment"

"Have I ever given you any reason to believe that you're disappointing me?"

"No, but still ..."

Look, this isn't going to damage our relationship any because I nipped it in the bud but had I not pressed, this might have continued and festered and ...

I have had this happen, a few times before with bigger issues that go on to cause bigger problems. I've had things turn into an issue which a lady will bitch to her friends about while she lets it stew, never saying anything to me, and after weeks or months, I'm this ugly blue meanie and things finally come to a head. You see, I'm just going along, minding my own business but they get this idea in their head that I "must " feel some way or another (whether I do or not).

They convince themselves that what they're imagining must be true and therefore I'm "being mean" to them.

I'm probably not explaining this correctly so I'm hoping that someone can relate. I'm sure it probably happens to those on the other side of the kneel, also, but that is not my perspective.

Michael

ETA:

Further Disclaimer: "set me up to be their abuser" is a term my couples counselor used, before-after my divorce, years ago.

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/1/2015 12:31:36 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to GoddessManko)

Post #: 29

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 12:26:42 AM

vivaciousgrace

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/13/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

It is not only paramount that we know and understand all our finer tick-tock workings, but we know our needs and wants and how they operate within a relationship… any relationship.

I abhor sloth and do not allow sloths (three toed or not) to come into my home… it always ends badly and if I were to yield on that stance, I would be setting the relationship (of any kind) up for failure.

This I agree with wholeheartedly.

It was a lesson I learned, unfortunately, when my marriage failed. My ex-hubby pushed for a really serious relationship very fast. I went into that relationship not really understanding fully what I needed out of a relationship at all, so i just went with what he was happy with and then ended up making compromises I shouldn't have. I spent a long time trying to deal with how disappointed I was that he wasn't behaving in ways that I liked... and then eventually had to try to explain that after all that time of him thinking it was ok because I had never made it clear to him otherwise... it was not ok...
The sad thing is that he is a good man and if we had taken our time and been clearer with each other from the outset we would probably still be married.

I now try to make the effort to get to know any new person entering my life and to be clear about who i am and what makes me tick as far as i understand it. And my friendships and relationships are far better for it.

I do think that the OP was making a promise she could not keep and her partner was asking far too much without either of them fully understanding the implications of the set of rules they had laid out for themselves. It was unlikely to end well.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 30

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 12:46:20 AM

vivaciousgrace

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/13/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I have had this happen, a few times before with bigger issues that go on to cause bigger problems. I've had things turn into an issue which a lady will bitch to her friends about while she lets it stew, never saying anything to me, and after weeks or months, I'm this ugly blue meanie and things finally come to a head. You see, I'm just going along, minding my own business but they get this idea in their head that I "must " feel some way or another (whether I do or not).

They convince themselves that what they're imagining must be true and therefore I'm "being mean" to them.

I'm probably not explaining this correctly so I'm hoping that someone can relate. I'm sure it probably happens to those on the other side of the kneel, also, but that is not my perspective.

Michael

ETA:

Further Disclaimer: "set me up to be their abuser" is a term my couples counselor used, before-after my divorce, years ago.

Ok, the above part (letting it fester and bitching to other people) I am not guilty of. I see ladies do that frequently and getting together in little "support groups" fueling each others fire and it frustrates the hell out of me.

However...

I won't let my best friend teach me guitar because I am terrified of being really rubbish at it and him being disappointed with my progress.
And I can understand the feelings of not being good enough, and the fear of failure that completely screws with someones head and makes them imagine that everyone is looking down on them or that everyone else is better than they are.
I suffer from that quite a lot.
I like learning things WITH him that are new to both of us so that we start from the same point, even though he invariably gets it faster than I do.
That doesn't bother me at all. (He is a high functioning autistic, I am never going to be able to keep up with that brain, I just enjoy watching it in action. He is wonderful.)
I actually suffer from PTSD due to the joys of growing up with a mentally ill violent alcoholic. I wasn't allowed to excel at anything because she would get jealous and nasty but i wasn't allowed to fail at anything because she would be humiliated and nasty. Some situations still make me terrified to even try.
It comes across as though I am angry or snapping at people, but really its just panic.

We all want to be good enough for the people in our lives. And feeling that you are not quite making the grade can be intensely stressful, because you start to worry that the person will decide they would be better off with someone else... never underestimate how frightening that is, when you feel like you are not good enough to bother with, however irrationally.
ETA:

Personally I tend to take it out on myself, rather than other people, which I is what I think you have been on the receiving end of, but I think the source of the problem is the same fears and the same insecurities.
So I thought I would share the other side :)

No disrespect intended.

< Message edited by vivaciousgrace -- 3/1/2015 12:50:17 AM >

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 31

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 1:18:04 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vivaciousgrace

ETA:

Personally I tend to take it out on myself, rather than other people, which I is what I think you have been on the receiving end of, but I think the source of the problem is the same fears and the same insecurities.
So I thought I would share the other side :)

No disrespect intended.

Either I mis-read this or you missed my point.

I'm not saying that the ladies "take it out on me". I was saying that they internalize the fear but they project how they think I must be thinking/feeling on to me, making me the "bad guy". I have broad shoulders. If she got upset with me, I could deal with it.

What happens though is a lady thinks: "Geez. He must hate having to do this with me" to the point where they've convinced themselves that that is exactly how I feel, even (at times) if I'm continually stating the opposite (Let's not get started on this, making me out to be a liar, from where they're sitting LOL).

I was raised, partially, by a drunken mother and step-father. Thankfully, I was part of a package deal that my step-father really wanted no part of so, I was shipped off to live with other (better) relatives, quite often. That doesn't change that I dealt with the same attacks upon my self-esteem, when I was exposed to them so, I appreciate the need for positive reinforcement and praise (I often say that my mom and step-father were perfect negative barometers for how NOT to raise a child and I let that guide me in my own child-rearing).

Last year, during the celebration of my 50th birthday (some would say a pretty special day where one is allowed to be selfish), she had done so well at learning the Ted Nugent song that I insisted that she play it for her family and our other guests. She had only been playing for about four months and she NAILED IT. Some of her family didn't even know that she had started playing so they were really shocked.

I did everything I could to make her feel special and I praised her work because she deserved it. That's why the juxtaposition of my being "disappointed" with her came as such a shock to me.

Again, in the grand scheme of things, it's a very small thing but the emotions and non-communication that contributed to it were the basis of our discussion. I didn't chastise. I didn't brow-beat. I sat her down and explained/re-enforced that I am not one to hide how I'm feeling or thinking and if I were disappointed, I would let her know.

The thing is: she knows all of this already. She's well aware. Now, of course, she's beating herself up for this behavior and I haven't figured out how to fix that, yet LOL!

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to vivaciousgrace)

Post #: 32

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 1:49:17 AM

vivaciousgrace

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/13/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: vivaciousgrace

ETA:

Personally I tend to take it out on myself, rather than other people, which I is what I think you have been on the receiving end of, but I think the source of the problem is the same fears and the same insecurities.
So I thought I would share the other side :)

No disrespect intended.

Either I mis-read this or you missed my point.

I'm not saying that the ladies "take it out on me". I was saying that they internalize the fear but they project how they think I must be thinking/feeling on to me, making me the "bad guy". I have broad shoulders. If she got upset with me, I could deal with it.

What happens though is a lady thinks: "Geez. He must hate having to do this with me" to the point where they've convinced themselves that that is exactly how I feel, even (at times) if I'm continually stating the opposite (Let's not get started on this, making me out to be a liar, from where they're sitting LOL).

I was raised, partially, by a drunken mother and step-father. Thankfully, I was part of a package deal that my step-father really wanted no part of so, I was shipped off to live with other (better) relatives, quite often. That doesn't change that I dealt with the same attacks upon my self-esteem, when I was exposed to them so, I appreciate the need for positive reinforcement and praise (I often say that my mom and step-father were perfect negative barometers for how NOT to raise a child and I let that guide me in my own child-rearing).

Last year, during the celebration of my 50th birthday (some would say a pretty special day where one is allowed to be selfish), she had done so well at learning the Ted Nugent song that I insisted that she play it for her family and our other guests. She had only been playing for about four months and she NAILED IT. Some of her family didn't even know that she had started playing so they were really shocked.

I did everything I could to make her feel special and I praised her work because she deserved it. That's why the juxtaposition of my being "disappointed" with her came as such a shock to me.

Again, in the grand scheme of things, it's a very small thing but the emotions and non-communication that contributed to it were the basis of our discussion. I didn't chastise. I didn't brow-beat. I sat her down and explained/re-enforced that I am not one to hide how I'm feeling or thinking and if I were disappointed, I would let her know.

The thing is: she knows all of this already. She's well aware. Now, of course, she's beating herself up for this behavior and I haven't figured out how to fix that, yet LOL!

Michael

I am rubbish at explaining myself before breakfast, I should only post in the afternoon lol

I think that I can be fully aware that it is MY OWN fear of what he thinks that is upsetting me. And still be upset by it. I don't get upset and then think "Its his fault because he feels I am not good enough" I would not take it out on the other person by being angry at them for an imagined feeling that they have. I would still get panicky about my fear of their disappointment coming true.

I am fully aware that I have some fucking stupid insecurities, but I still panic about disappointing people. If someone is important to me I want them to care about me, and to like me. I am terrified of messing that up.

And yep, I know exactly how she feels ;) I beat myself up over similar after such an issue has been resolved.
Some of us are just plagued by an inability to believe we are good enough and a huge fear of disappointing people and let those toxic feelings get too big to cope with. Its a really hard habit to break!

Also, I too use my delightful parents as a measure of what not to do! (I have an 11 year old son) That made me smile. :)
If people ask me about my parenting decisions I reply that "I think about what my mother would do, and do the exact opposite"
Its true.
And my son is WAY more well adjusted and happy than I was at 11. :)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 33

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 3:22:10 AM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
What happens though is a lady thinks: "Geez. He must hate having to do this with me" to the point where they've convinced themselves that that is exactly how I feel, even (at times) if I'm continually stating the opposite (Let's not get started on this, making me out to be a liar, from where they're sitting LOL).

This is an issue I have had over and over.

I generally prefer to hold people responsible for what they say, and to believe them when they tell me something directly. If it turns out they're lying, I'll have the opportunity to leave them soon enough, of call them on their bullshit.

However, I find that I'd rather believe them when they tell me something and be wrong, then disbelieve someone I profess to love and respect.

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Post #: 34

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 5:23:59 AM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
What happens though is a lady thinks: "Geez. He must hate having to do this with me" to the point where they've convinced themselves that that is exactly how I feel, even (at times) if I'm continually stating the opposite (Let's not get started on this, making me out to be a liar, from where they're sitting LOL).

This is an issue I have had over and over.

I generally prefer to hold people responsible for what they say, and to believe them when they tell me something directly. If it turns out they're lying, I'll have the opportunity to leave them soon enough, of call them on their bullshit.

However, I find that I'd rather believe them when they tell me something and be wrong, then disbelieve someone I profess to love and respect.

Yes, this. Especially early on while cultivating the relationship I feel like there should be a sense of "all cards are on the table". In my mind the willingness of a partner to help you (without request) shows just fundamental care and concern, period.
Failure is something I refuse to accept, I'll nip it in the bud early before anyone has to lose an eye, LOL.
I have been dealing with "complications" as far as bureaucracy in a foreign country and for the first time I realize the world of difference of how things work in the US vs overseas when it comes to accountability. I had to have a member of Parliament intervene, and so imagine that as my priority while people are trying to convince me they wish to serve me. Even having time and consideration to talk to them for 5 minutes is a big deal.
My issue is when there is obvious lack of reconciliation between words and actions. It's very easy to say words but this is where honesty comes into play. My words and my actions will always align if I can help it because I believe in transparency. When words and actions/physical proof do not then that gives me reasons to pause and honestly most attempts at deception for me are thinly veiled.
I can identify with DaddySatyr's sub's feelings (LOL at disclaimer). For myself in a sense, as a sub, I think I would be a lot harder on myself (disappointment at failing Dom/feeling inadequate) more than any Dom could ever be. I know I have my flaws and I think as a sub I would be more of a feeler and less of a thinker.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 3/1/2015 5:26:13 AM >

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(in reply to NookieNotes)

Post #: 35

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 6:01:26 AM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline

Thanks everyone, such great insight into how we react or think on issues.

I will say, for me I don't get angry at other people, I stay frustrated with myself for failing. I hold myself to ridiculously high standards in most everything I do from personal responsibility to how I communicate, to my interactions with others. So if there is a break down, I become frustrated with myself, blame myself, feel I am failing myself.

(in reply to GoddessManko)

Post #: 36

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/1/2015 12:28:10 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Michael, what I think you're missing with the guitar analogy is why she assumes what she did.
Next time, ask her who in her past did this to her. Then when she starts, remind her that you're not her ex or her mother or whomever.

It would be kinder if you didn't choose to approach this as them setting you up to be an abuser but them suffering from past trauma.
Because somebody in her past taught her that her not doing everything perfectly on the first try meant that she was incompetent and unworthy of love. Find out whom and separate yourself from them.

You can't logically reason this out because emotions aren't logical or reasonable. She's hit an emotional trigger and you folks need to discuss it.

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Post #: 37

RE: Setting up for Failure - 3/2/2015 9:52:57 AM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Michael, what I think you're missing with the guitar analogy is why she assumes what she did.
Next time, ask her who in her past did this to her. Then when she starts, remind her that you're not her ex or her mother or whomever.

It would be kinder if you didn't choose to approach this as them setting you up to be an abuser but them suffering from past trauma.
Because somebody in her past taught her that her not doing everything perfectly on the first try meant that she was incompetent and unworthy of love. Find out whom and separate yourself from them.

You can't logically reason this out because emotions aren't logical or reasonable. She's hit an emotional trigger and you folks need to discuss it.

Hmm...I disagree about assuming this is something negative or that it has to do with anyone from her past. Some people just wish to excel in all things they pursue including submission.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 38

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