ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (Full Version)

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Zonie63 -> ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 7:06:31 AM)

Islamic State appears to be fraying from within

quote:

BEIRUT — The Islamic State ­appears to be starting to fray from within, as dissent, defections and setbacks on the battlefield sap the group’s strength and erode its aura of invincibility among those living under its despotic rule.

Reports of rising tensions between foreign and local fighters, aggressive and increasingly unsuccessful attempts to recruit local citizens for the front lines, and a growing incidence of guerrilla attacks against Islamic State targets suggest the militants are struggling to sustain their carefully cultivated image as a fearsome fighting force drawing Muslims together under the umbrella of a utopian Islamic state.


Not that this was unexpected, although it puts the notion that "the sky is falling" in better perspective.

quote:

“The key challenge facing ISIS right now is more internal than external,” she said, using another term for the group. “We’re seeing basically a failure of the central tenet of ISIS ideology, which is to unify people of different origins under the caliphate. This is not working on the ground. It is making them less effective in governing and less effective in military operations.”

Most striking are the growing signs of friction between the foreigners lured by its state-building experiment and local recruits, who have grown resentful of the preferential treatment meted out to the expatriates, including higher salaries and better living conditions.

...

Many of the foreigners show little inclination to travel to the front lines, he said. “They just want to live in the Islamic State,” he said. “They didn’t come to fight.”

How useful they would be to the Islamic State’s military efforts is also in question, said the Carnegie Middle East Center’s Khatib.

“Ultimately, they are only attracting people on the margins of society, without much education or useful skills,” she said. “It’s not exactly bolstering their military capability.”


Is this the beginning of the end for the Islamic State?




Sanity -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 9:19:04 AM)


"Is this the beginning of the end for the Islamic State?"

Only if it comes from within, apparently. But even that may be wishful thinking, a "journalist" smoothing over an aloof response to all of the reported horror stories

Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau pledges allegiance to ISIS

ISIS goes global

quote:

ISIS destroys more ancient artifacts in Iraq

[img]http://www.jaunted.com/files/16133/Hatra_Iraq_385.jpg[/img]

ISIS thugs have now destroyed three ancient cities in Iraq including Hatra, a UNESCO Heritage Site that is 200 miles north of Baghdad.


Or, could be just growing pains




mnottertail -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 9:32:26 AM)

I dont think they have destroyed as many cities or allowed looting as much as the rightwing Nazi shiteater regime of goons and thugs under Ws kingly dictatorship.




BamaD -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 9:34:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Islamic State appears to be fraying from within

quote:

BEIRUT — The Islamic State ­appears to be starting to fray from within, as dissent, defections and setbacks on the battlefield sap the group’s strength and erode its aura of invincibility among those living under its despotic rule.

Reports of rising tensions between foreign and local fighters, aggressive and increasingly unsuccessful attempts to recruit local citizens for the front lines, and a growing incidence of guerrilla attacks against Islamic State targets suggest the militants are struggling to sustain their carefully cultivated image as a fearsome fighting force drawing Muslims together under the umbrella of a utopian Islamic state.


Not that this was unexpected, although it puts the notion that "the sky is falling" in better perspective.

quote:

“The key challenge facing ISIS right now is more internal than external,” she said, using another term for the group. “We’re seeing basically a failure of the central tenet of ISIS ideology, which is to unify people of different origins under the caliphate. This is not working on the ground. It is making them less effective in governing and less effective in military operations.”

Most striking are the growing signs of friction between the foreigners lured by its state-building experiment and local recruits, who have grown resentful of the preferential treatment meted out to the expatriates, including higher salaries and better living conditions.

...

Many of the foreigners show little inclination to travel to the front lines, he said. “They just want to live in the Islamic State,” he said. “They didn’t come to fight.”

How useful they would be to the Islamic State’s military efforts is also in question, said the Carnegie Middle East Center’s Khatib.

“Ultimately, they are only attracting people on the margins of society, without much education or useful skills,” she said. “It’s not exactly bolstering their military capability.”


Is this the beginning of the end for the Islamic State?

Ignore them and they will go away, you did see that Boko Haram has joined with them?




kdsub -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 10:59:46 AM)

Maybe on a Biblical scale… this generation of Islam must die in order to mold future generations of believers to follow the true path… Otherwise they are worshiping the sword instead of mercy, forgiveness, love and tolerance and God is punishing them…and us.

There will be no peace among or between various sects of Islam let alone the rest of the non-Muslim world. As one group tries to dictate its version of Islam and fails another will appear and there will not be peace until this violent generation is destroyed…. If ISIS goes another will rise so this is far from over.

They hate each other but the rest of the world even more… they are a bane on mankind and their own religion. Only when they are dead and gone can peace rise from the ashes and the region and religion regain respect and posterity.

There can not be or will be a negotiated peace… only death by the sword will appease them.


Now pardon me while I part the water.

Butch




Lucylastic -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 11:22:00 AM)

Butch ,what a well thats either the funniest post Ive read for a long time or the most idiotic.




Zonie63 -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 11:40:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Ignore them and they will go away, you did see that Boko Haram has joined with them?


Boko Haram is on the run and cornered by Nigerian forces from the south, and now Chad and Niger (a Muslim-majority country) have joined in the fighting against Boko Haram. So, maybe they think if they join up with them, ISIS will send them aid, although they may not be in a position where they can do much of anything at this point. ISIS is pretty well tied down and surrounded; Boko Haram is tied down and surrounded. And they're both far away from each other and can't really link up or do much of anything to help each other. It's like a sinking ship sending a distress call to another sinking ship.





Sanity -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 12:12:55 PM)


The problem isnt so much ISIS itself, or al-Qaeda itself, or Boko Horam itself, or Iran itself, etc etc etc, as it is the Koran itself (and other Islamic teachings) instructing Islamists to act the way that they do

Until that problem is somehow corrected we are just going to play whack-a-mole with these groups




mnottertail -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 12:16:57 PM)

Burn the Old Testament?





kdsub -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 2:11:19 PM)

Lucy...can we not be sarcastic anymore? I was trying to give you a taste of out-state Missouri and what they believe. I must admit i was hoping to get a rise out of tweak or politesub....[:D]

Butch




Lucylastic -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 2:13:42 PM)

thats why I asked if it was sposed to be funny(in a sarcastic way)....




tj444 -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 2:55:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Islamic State appears to be fraying from within

quote:

BEIRUT — The Islamic State ­appears to be starting to fray from within, as dissent, defections and setbacks on the battlefield sap the group’s strength and erode its aura of invincibility among those living under its despotic rule.

Reports of rising tensions between foreign and local fighters, aggressive and increasingly unsuccessful attempts to recruit local citizens for the front lines, and a growing incidence of guerrilla attacks against Islamic State targets suggest the militants are struggling to sustain their carefully cultivated image as a fearsome fighting force drawing Muslims together under the umbrella of a utopian Islamic state.


Not that this was unexpected, although it puts the notion that "the sky is falling" in better perspective.


Assuming that it is "breaking up", these people arent gonna just all of a sudden become law abiding and turn away from terrorism.. they still want to destroy just as before, but they will do it in smaller groups or as lone wolf terrorists.. how is that any better? That makes it harder to fight & to intercept future attacks, doesnt it?




kdsub -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 3:36:04 PM)

tj I honestly believe that after the radicals are dispatched the only way a lasting peace will come about is if a truly representative democratic government can gain the trust of the various sects of Islam. Most people just want to be treated fairly...allowed to practice their religion, feel safe and secure for themselves and their families... It can be done...but I doubt they can do it on their own. I wish there were easy answers.

Butch




BamaD -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 4:28:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Ignore them and they will go away, you did see that Boko Haram has joined with them?


Boko Haram is on the run and cornered by Nigerian forces from the south, and now Chad and Niger (a Muslim-majority country) have joined in the fighting against Boko Haram. So, maybe they think if they join up with them, ISIS will send them aid, although they may not be in a position where they can do much of anything at this point. ISIS is pretty well tied down and surrounded; Boko Haram is tied down and surrounded. And they're both far away from each other and can't really link up or do much of anything to help each other. It's like a sinking ship sending a distress call to another sinking ship.



Right, ignore them and they will go away. Nothing to worry about.




Politesub53 -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 5:20:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Lucy...can we not be sarcastic anymore? I was trying to give you a taste of out-state Missouri and what they believe. I must admit i was hoping to get a rise out of tweak or politesub....[:D]

Butch


Calling you on your stupidity is hardly you getting a rise out of me Butch. Even if you did break the new TOS by naming me in a thread I havent posted in until now. [;)]


As for all this Boko Haram joins ISIS.......... Like fuck will they.

The fact ISIS appear to be falling apart isnt a surprise. Not only is there dissatisfaction from within the group, just as there is with most revolutions, but ISIS will have lost the support from some of the Sunni tribes in Iraq. Without that support ISIS wouldnt have won control of the norther part of iraq so easily. No doubt the Shia militias will fuck up the chance of reunification by carrying out revenge attacks.

Mission accomplished George.




Politesub53 -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 5:21:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Right, ignore them and they will go away. Nothing to worry about.


Indeed boss. No doubt Boko Haram will muster the fleets and invade the US. [8|]




kdsub -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 5:32:42 PM)

Perhaps Politesub, in all seriousness, the only possible solution will be partitioning to accommodate the various sects. Granted a terrible idea but I do not believe there is an alternative that will work. There is just too much hate and distrust for a unified government to rule fairly and to the satisfaction of the ethnic and religious groups.

I understand this was considered and rejected in the past but maybe the time has come to reconsider.

Butch




Politesub53 -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 5:36:39 PM)

Are you going to go out and do it yourself Butch, because I aint voting for putting our troops or yours, in the way.





PeonForHer -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 5:36:46 PM)

FR

This is worth a look: long, but detailed and readable article about ISIS's raison d'etre. Buried in it is the observation that, to add to its already prolific list of noble and lovable qualities, ISIS is racist. Boko Haram is made up of people of the wrong colour, basically.





Politesub53 -> RE: ISIS appears to be "fraying from within" (3/9/2015 5:40:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

This is worth a look: long, but detailed and readable article about ISIS's raison d'etre. Buried in it is the observation that, to add to it's already prolific list of noble and lovable qualities, ISIS is racist. Boko Haram is made up of people of the wrong colour, basically.




I said as much about the Janjaweed Peon. Boko Harams claim came not from a position of strength but from the localised forces now ranged against them.




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