Zero Tollerance in School (Full Version)

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KenDckey -> Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 5:22:38 AM)

We've all, I am sure, seen the posts on zero tollerance policies in our schools

The kid that was eating a sandwich and some other kid screamed it looked like a gun and off he goes into educational hell.

How about the kid in Warren County TN that was suspended for having a military hair cut to honor his brother at a school named afer a medal of honor reciepient and whose school gym is named after a soldier killed in afganistan?

Or the kids that were sent home for wearing the American Flag imprinted on their shirt on an American school on a Mexican Holiday?

Or the girl that showed her knees

To me this all distracts from the educational process.



MercTech -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 5:37:25 AM)

Don't get me started... kid suspended for a week for water balloons during recess that were colored to look like old pineapple hand grenades.



KenDckey -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 6:20:42 AM)

Yeah the list goes on and on. And it seems to change according to whichever politically correct flavor of the week is.



Tkman117 -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 7:09:58 AM)

Thank god we don't have this kind of crap in canadian schools [8|]



bossman777 -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 7:19:42 AM)

If one truly cares about their child, they would not place them under the management and 'care' of the incompetents and communists running the government's schools.



KenDckey -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 7:35:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Thank god we don't have this kind of crap in canadian schools [8|]


paranoia gone rampant



Tkman117 -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 8:01:36 AM)

I'll say



slvemike4u -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 8:26:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

If one truly cares about their child, they would not place them under the management and 'care' of the incompetents and communists running the government's schools.

Much better to indoctrinate them at home [8|]



Lucylastic -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 9:25:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

If one truly cares about their child, they would not place them under the management and 'care' of the incompetents and communists running the government's schools.

here we have the poster child for any anti home schoolers out there!!!!!



kdsub -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 10:08:56 AM)

Ken there are extremes everywhere. Here in St. Louis a young African American was caught stealing from a teachers desk and fighting so he was kicked out of school in a zero tolerance system and given classes to keep up while suspended online. He is suing the school district because he does not have a computer and claiming he was kicked out because he was black.

I guess what I am saying is zero tolerance is the way to go... but you will always have any rule taken to the extreme but this does not make the rule wrong.

Butch



dcnovice -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 10:10:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Don't get me started... kid suspended for a week for water balloons during recess that were colored to look like old pineapple hand grenades.

Back in my Catholic grammar school days, I'm pretty sure a water balloon of any description would have landed a kid in some trouble.



Lucylastic -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 10:49:43 AM)

yep, got suspended for 2 days for filling up condoms and having a "balloon" fight on the tennis courts, 40 years ago....



eulero83 -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 11:37:05 AM)

FR

the whole concept of "zero tollerance" is moronic, it's like a slogan for "today we decided we will go after those who don't deserve it", and this applies not only to schools.



PeonForHer -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 12:10:28 PM)

Here, I recall the phrase 'zero tolerance' being coined by - if memory serves - the John Major government to clamp down on teenage hooligans particularly. Our beloved Daily Mail ran a campaign to promote it, focusing particularly on graffiti. At the very same time, it ran a campaign against speed traps on the roads. Neither the Mail nor most of its readers saw any contradiction, bless them. ;-)



KenDckey -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/27/2015 2:06:56 PM)

Fighting back

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2015/03/24/students-ordered-to-remove-flag-shirts-ask-high-court-to-hear-their-case/?mod=WSJ_hp_EditorsPicks

Students go to SCOTUS to fight back against their suspension.



joether -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/28/2015 2:01:06 AM)

Sometimes there is much more going on below the surface than people realize.

That in school, there is a pecking order. And its determined in any number of ways. That physical abuse causes as much damage as mental and/or emotional damage. The same is true for the reverse. Boys tend to favor physical displays while girls subtle (sometimes the opposite for both). That when we hear this stuff, there is also an abundant amount of information that we are not told. This is to protect the student's privacy (be they the protagonist or the antagonist).

While we heard that little Johnny got suspended for drawing a gun (in elementary school for example). What we are not told is that little johnny knows little Aaron is Jewish and the picture was of a nazi (little johnny) shooting at someone hanging from a rope (little Aaron) with names. At that age, does little Johnny fully understand what he did? In most cases no. The offender and victim usually get different sorts of help in private.

The punishment's effect should be the first clue of the severity of the issue to the public.



MercTech -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/28/2015 2:32:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Sometimes there is much more going on below the surface than people realize.

That in school, there is a pecking order. And its determined in any number of ways. That physical abuse causes as much damage as mental and/or emotional damage. The same is true for the reverse. Boys tend to favor physical displays while girls subtle (sometimes the opposite for both). That when we hear this stuff, there is also an abundant amount of information that we are not told. This is to protect the student's privacy (be they the protagonist or the antagonist).

While we heard that little Johnny got suspended for drawing a gun (in elementary school for example). What we are not told is that little johnny knows little Aaron is Jewish and the picture was of a nazi (little johnny) shooting at someone hanging from a rope (little Aaron) with names. At that age, does little Johnny fully understand what he did? In most cases no. The offender and victim usually get different sorts of help in private.

The punishment's effect should be the first clue of the severity of the issue to the public.


Yes, we must implement draconian no tolerance penalties for even minor peccadilloes because we can imagine things might have more sinister motivations.



DerangedUnit -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/28/2015 2:53:16 AM)

I had a friend in high school who was reenacting a scene from a movie that had just come out and someone reported that they thought he was attacking his friend... he spent 3 months in a psych ward for that.

Also one of my female friends and I(same school) were playing in the quad(open area with trees and tables) after school
And she had started a tickle war and had me pinned on the ground laughing(hey I was 4 years younger everyone was a lot bigger than me)

a couple days later I get called in to the principals office and see the police holding two of my guy friends... none of us knew what was going on(we all assumed entirely different things and they hadn't said anything or been told anything it could have been any number of things we were kinda the school pranksters) I decided not talking wasn't getting us anywhere so I said I was leaving if he didn't tell me what was going on and he said something akin to:

"I know this may be a delicate subject you may not want to talk about but protecting our students is a priority and we take this matter seriously" at this point I thought someone died and I was being accused of the murder or something... I finally convinced him I had no clue what he was talking about and he told me some girl had reported me being raped in the school quad a couple days before. I burst out laughing... later finding out that to narrow it down to my two friends waiting with the cops they had gone around to kids at school and asked who my friends were and who was likely to assault me... brilliant, that was a fun year



Kirata -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/28/2015 3:28:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The punishment's effect should be the first clue of the severity of the issue to the public.

Well, no. Actually, the first clue to the severity of the issue in the public's mind is the outrage that ensues when it becomes widely known and the subsequent frantic back-peddling by the school.

K.






Kana -> RE: Zero Tollerance in School (3/28/2015 5:37:43 AM)

quote:

Yes, we must implement draconian no tolerance penalties for even minor peccadilloes because we can imagine things might have more sinister motivations.


"People always devise their own justifications. Fixed and immovable Law merely provides a convenient structure within which to hang your justifications and the prejudices behind them. The only universally acceptable law for mortals would be one which fitted every justification. What obvious nonsense. Law must expose prejudice and question justification. Thus, Law must be flexible, must change to fit new demands. Otherwise, it becomes merely the justification of the powerful."
Frank Herbert

We need less law and more fucking common sense.
(You know, like instead of making new stupid laws, how about we actually just enforce the ones on the books. Sheesh.)

Generally speaking, law is used when tradition/culture fails. False reliance on it is the fallback mode of a society that shirks its personal and ethical responsibility as citizens and co stakeholders in a culture.
Its so easy to be a Sadducee, to draw things/events in Manichean terms...X did Y so thus they get Z based on this sliding scale algorithm that is used that punishments/consequences are evenly applied without prejudice or impropriety.
But fuck man, that's why societies have judges. That's why they get elected. To Judge. J.U.D.G.E. That fucking word. To weigh and consider and then make balanced informed decisions. This also holds true for people placed in position of administrative authority.

Zero tolerance in any field is a nightmare 100% guaranteed to create blowback and major errors. Its law/rules created by cowards seeking the easiest way out that keeps their hands clean.






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