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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 7:16:06 AM   
dreamlady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

I think shy dominant is an oxymoron.

I'm inclined to agree with that, with respect to literal shyness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Well, I don't think of being reserved as shy personally.


Me neither. Measuring dominance on a the bar of self-confidence, which one must possess or be able to exude in order to lead others, here are some low-key traits to consider which could be mistaken for shyness, but which are not incongruent with dominance Imao:

Not Mutually Exclusive of Being Dominant
Detached or Non-Engaging = Mental and emotional processing orientation on objective/subjective axis, not a D/s characteristic
Intense = Can be a quiet intensity, having focused attention and concentration
Introversion = Personality modality counterpart to Extroversion, tied to inward/outward energy flow (self-generating or seeking outside of oneself), not a D/s characteristic
Modesty = Has more to do with cultural upbringing which mirrors one's value system in personal expression or sense of propriety
Quiet = Contemplative, Meditative
Reserved = Self-Contained, Introspective
Showing Restraint of Action = Has more to do with self-control, self-discipline, and/or respectfulness of others and their protocols
Soft-Spoken = A man or woman of few words; exhibiting calmness in demeanor

Not Dominant Trait (if left unchecked, unmanaged, and cannot be overcome by self)
Avoidance, often associated with passive-aggressive behavior patterns
Being Overly Self-Conscious (shows lack of confidence, insecurity)
Brooding, Sulking, Sullenness
Hesitance, Indecisiveness, Procrastination
Moody = Neutral, but could be sign of inconsistent nature, which is not conducive to being an effective Dominant authority
Shyness as Bashfulness (sign of timid nature)
Social Anxiety (shows lack of confidence, although stage fright is normal for any person to experience)

DreamLady

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 11:10:23 AM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
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Status: offline 		The traits listed last under "non-dominant" are traits I see on display all over the profile side, especially when I say "no thank you" :D

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 11:33:33 AM   
ARIES83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
I think being socially adept is merely a matter of practice. My view of dominance doesn't so much depend on that, though I still feel that genuine shyness and dominance are mutually exclusive.


I'm curious about this. I have my own feelings on the topic, but why do you feel they are incompatible traits?

The things I associate with shyness don't mix with the things I associate with dominance.
Everyway I try and imagine how shyly dominating someone would work I end up with a ridiculous mental image. But as always, I'm open to the idea. I just need someone to tell me how it would work.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 11:38:16 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		That's an interesting list dreamlady. Did you just think of it, or is there some kind of dominant/not dominant checklist somewhere on the interwebs?
Well, there is now in any case.

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 4/15/2015 11:42:47 AM >

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 12:18:24 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
I think being socially adept is merely a matter of practice. My view of dominance doesn't so much depend on that, though I still feel that genuine shyness and dominance are mutually exclusive.


I'm curious about this. I have my own feelings on the topic, but why do you feel they are incompatible traits?

The things I associate with shyness don't mix with the things I associate with dominance.
Everyway I try and imagine how shyly dominating someone would work I end up with a ridiculous mental image. But as always, I'm open to the idea. I just need someone to tell me how it would work.

Here's how that would work: put a gag on the sub to muffle her laughter

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 12:25:05 PM   
dreamlady


Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

That's an interesting list dreamlady. Did you just think of it, or is there some kind of dominant/not dominant checklist somewhere on the interwebs?
Well, there is now in any case.

Actually, so kind of you to ask. I started out thinking about what I had been differentiating in my mind earlier, and then Icarus' response of what he'd had in mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IcarusBurning
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Can you define what you mean by "shy"?

There's a big difference between bashful-shy and quiet-shy; self-conscious shy, and strong, silent Clint Eastwood-type.

Some introverts are wallflowers and lack self-confidence. Others unobtrusively observe, or blend into their surroundings, or operate in more of a stealth-like mode.

aha i knew i would get asked that! should have put it right up..

i dont mean prudish. i mean the sort who are not the first to go up and approach a woman. those that feel a little awkward before people they dont know. who are not the best social butterflies around.

not (necessarily) the bashful shy type, i guess more of the reserved-and-a-little-socially-awkward kind.

Like you ARIES, I don't see prudishness as having much ado about anything along these lines and neither does acting reserved, which comes from a separate place than self-conscious awkwardness as OP was saying.

Then DesFIP described her man, and I could see where introvertedness in personality typology might get confused for shyness, social awkwardness, or not being gregarious or sociable enough (the latter having nothing to do with D/s characteristics because if it did, then all Dominants would be expected to act like social butterflies and be the life of the party).
Furthermore, if an extroverted personality shows aggressive, domineering tendencies, that doesn't *prove* his dominance -- it just shows he can act like an insecure bully.

So, I felt clearcut distinctions were in order. Plus, I underwent brain hurt from this recent thread on Dom/sub trait comparisons. http://www.collarchat.com/m_4796034/mpage_1/tm.htm

DreamLady

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 12:32:06 PM   
ExiledTyrant


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Anything that makes me appear less than Uber Domly Dom Master Chest Thumper Sir is all lies and propaganda.

Jus sayin

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 12:58:34 PM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
I think being socially adept is merely a matter of practice. My view of dominance doesn't so much depend on that, though I still feel that genuine shyness and dominance are mutually exclusive.


I'm curious about this. I have my own feelings on the topic, but why do you feel they are incompatible traits?

The things I associate with shyness don't mix with the things I associate with dominance.
Everyway I try and imagine how shyly dominating someone would work I end up with a ridiculous mental image. But as always, I'm open to the idea. I just need someone to tell me how it would work.


I agree.

Actual shyness, to me, is a result of being self-conscious and insecure about the effect we have on others. In other words, being too self-centered, rather than focused on other people and their needs.

Not at all what a dominant would be, since they need to lead, and people need to follow.


quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Plus, I underwent brain hurt from this recent thread on Dom/sub trait comparisons. http://www.collarchat.com/m_4796034/mpage_1/tm.htm


*gigglesnorts*

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/15/2015 1:46:33 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Plus Icarus specifically defined shyness re meeting new people. Not inside of an existing, ongoing interpersonal relationship. So I don't get where you came up with 'shyly dominating' their partner.

Social anxiety is a mood disorder and disease is no respecter of personality. Anyone can have a problem with brain chemistry. Doesn't matter if they prefer to be the leader in their relationship or not.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/16/2015 4:21:17 AM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Plus Icarus specifically defined shyness re meeting new people. Not inside of an existing, ongoing interpersonal relationship. So I don't get where you came up with 'shyly dominating' their partner.

Social anxiety is a mood disorder and disease is no respecter of personality. Anyone can have a problem with brain chemistry. Doesn't matter if they prefer to be the leader in their relationship or not.


Not all shyness is clinical social anxiety. There are many people with social anxiety disorder who are not shy and are extroverted.

I find it fascinating how many people jump so quickly to defend mental disorders when discussing personality traits.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/16/2015 8:15:14 AM   
preytolife


Posts: 138
Joined: 11/29/2010
From: LaLa Land
Status: offline 		I know several Doms who would and have called themselves shy. They don't always come off that way, in many cases I see them more as quiet but it's how they self identify. In the public it's also pretty common for some people not to be comfortable with in your face displays.

One of the most intense and intimidating (and fucking yummy) Doms that I'm privileged to know is pretty shy.

Shyness doesn't really interfere with how I perceive dominance. Extreme insecurity and a recurring theme of social awkwardness does. "Shy" comes in a lot of flavors.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/16/2015 9:32:46 AM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		NookieNotes: I got to social anxiety because that's what the op was describing.
I don't think I've ever defended any illness. It's just that mood disorders are so common that they frequently aren't properly diagnosed or treated.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/16/2015 10:04:28 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
NookieNotes: I got to social anxiety because that's what the op was describing.


Hmmm. I still don't get social anxiety from this, at all:

quote:

ORIGINAL: IcarusBurning

aha i knew i would get asked that! should have put it right up..

i dont mean prudish. i mean the sort who are not the first to go up and approach a woman. those that feel a little awkward before people they dont know. who are not the best social butterflies around.

not (necessarily) the bashful shy type, i guess more of the reserved-and-a-little-socially-awkward kind.


The OP, explaining the question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I don't think I've ever defended any illness. It's just that mood disorders are so common that they frequently aren't properly diagnosed or treated.


Perhaps. Or perhaps they are over-diagnosed and over-treated. There are different thoughts on this.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/16/2015 11:24:01 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
quote:

So, I felt clearcut distinctions were in order. Plus, I underwent brain hurt from this recent thread on Dom/sub trait comparisons. http://www.collarchat.com/m_4796034/mpage_1/tm.htm

DreamLady

Well I'm glad you did. I saw that thread but don't remember participating, I'll take your list to be the result and save myself the brain hurt lol. My problem is there are too many interesting things to discuss and I have to ration my time on here.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/16/2015 10:11:14 PM   
IcarusBurning


Posts: 107
Joined: 2/1/2015
Status: offline 		i am generally unwilling to agree social ineptitude is a disease. sure, it may not be a shining skill. but thats how some people are. they dont feel energized in the presence of a crowd of people. if they were to start screaming and throwing things around - hey you've got a problem. but if they quietly decide to avoid such a situation and stick to the environs that feel comfortable in, i dont see why it should be a disease.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/16/2015 11:27:14 PM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		I don't see how a dominant could be shy(defined as being reserved or having or showing nervousness or timidity in the company of other people.) Timid and nervous doesn't really sound dominant on the other hand introverted I could see as such. A personal choice not to like being around people vs. Letting your mood be controlled by others.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 4/17/2015 12:30:47 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
quote:

i am generally unwilling to agree social ineptitude is a disease. sure, it may not be a shining skill. but thats how some people are. they dont feel energized in the presence of a crowd of people. if they were to start screaming and throwing things around - hey you've got a problem. but if they quietly decide to avoid such a situation and stick to the environs that feel comfortable in, i dont see why it should be a disease.


I’m a pretty solitary person myself. I have a very low tolerance for being crowded or pestered. When I was younger I experienced what I suppose you could describe as social anxiety, I’m sure everyone has at some time or another. I noticed that when I got my drivers licence and started driving in to school instead of taking the bus. I quickly became less comfortable in social interactions, I decided that getting public transport every day had been a desensitising influence that helped me feel more comfortable in groups of people I didn’t know. Not liking feeling uncomfortable, I resumed catching the bus to and from school despite having a cool-ass car that cost me a cool G.

I still experience social discomfort sometimes but it goes away pretty soon. If I don’t handle something as well as I’d like to, I throw myself into whatever it is and force myself to become better. My current job is an excellent example. I used to handle confrontations and the like easily, but being in a job which was like a nursery for adults for 6 years, I found those skills had gone ass up. Not finding that acceptable I’m now a security guard and love/hating every minute of it lol.

People are how they are, sure. But self-mastery also allows you to be how you wish to be. I’m not necessarily advocating will power as the only path to that either. I tried to give up smoking for a decade. All my will power was ground into the dust in the path of that addiction. I eventually decided if I couldn’t win with will power, I’d fight fire with fire and wage chemical warfare. I went to the doctor and got some anti-smoking medication and now smoking is another demon left broken in my wake.
Not sure what I’m trying to say here but I think it applies to the thread.


< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 4/17/2015 12:34:08 AM >

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RE: Shy dominants? - 5/1/2015 8:17:21 PM   
LipstickLeuger


Posts: 101
Joined: 4/29/2015
Status: offline 		My Dom is reserved with others and generally more laid back. However, when people try to push or say things that need to be challenged, she is very assertive about it. I will always remember how when she moved in, my German Shepard that took commands from me, started to take commands only from her., ignoring mine in favor of hers LOL. When I complained she said "it's because he knows I'm the Alpha'.

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RE: Shy dominants? - 5/1/2015 9:02:12 PM   
zerogirl


Posts: 28
Joined: 9/15/2013
Status: offline 		Hmm... Well I don't know if I would call my Master "shy" but in public He is not an aggressive or I guess stereotypical "alpha male" type. But I don't see that as a bad thing at all and again I don't think I'd qualify it as shy, I mean I'm shy, He's just quiet

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RE: Shy dominants? - 5/1/2015 9:06:04 PM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IcarusBurning
I'll keep this one real short. Have you ever come across a shy dominant? If so, what was your reaction?

I have a lot of dominant personality traits, but I'm fairly introverted (which isn't the same as being shy). I don't put on an act to appear to be a certain way. Some people disregard your dominant personality traits if you're not outgoing - their loss. I don't feel a need to 'sell myself' with extroverted behaviours.

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