quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So than they should have hired a lawyer and fought the five year probation they were placed on.What they should never had done was place their children in position to be plucked by the damm state.
Which is exactly what they did...and their kids payed for their stance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Wow....that sucks Marini,
I hope trouble never finds your door ;-)

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Okay so if we can agree that in some cases there are some parents who have no business at all raising children then it follows that we would also agree that communities need to set standards in order to protect those children at risk,no ?

People can have no business raising children and STILL not be doing anything illegal. Just as parents doing a good job of raising children can bring down the ire of the state. It all depends on the current narrative.

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Now if ,as I assume ,we are still in agreement than the issue is the heavy handeness of those same standards,right ?

Heavy-handedness? Not so much. Intrusiveness? Hell's yeah.

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In this case the law is a little bit fuzzy,it states IIRC that no child under the age of thirteen(or was it twelve)should be left alone to fend for themselves.The law was intended to,and I believe written,more to deal with cases of leaving children unattended in the home...so the walk home from the local park is a bit fuzzy on that.

CPS officials have said they are guided in part by a state law that says children younger than 8 must be left with a reliable person who is at least 13. But the law refers only to enclosed spaces such as buildings or cars, and makes no mention of children outside, in a park or on a walk.

No, the law they are using does not apply here.

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My objection here,in this particular case ,is that these parents were warned,and than decided to use their children to make a political libertarian leaning point.
One) that is awful narcissistic of them .Two) any parents who would subject their children to such an event in order to make a political point....need state supervision in the raising of said children

They forced the parents to sign a "safety plan" under duress. Documents signed under duress are null and void. They parents were NOT breaking the law or community standards by letting their children play in a park and walk home by themselves.

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Basically,from where I sit....it was more important for these assholes to make their own political point than it was to ensure that the state did not take their children away,

The parents were already appealing the December CPS decision. They also continued to parent the way they saw fit. That is not making a statement. remaining consistent.

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In that light I think it is imperative that these children be removed from the custody of these two assholes.

What the police and CPS did would be called kidnapping by anyone else. I think they should be tarred and feathered. Since that will not happen, then fired.

It would not surprise me that CPS is just pissed because these parents are not cowering in fear of their state power and instead were appealing.

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ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Wow....that sucks Marini,
I hope trouble never finds your door ;-)

Trouble has a way of finding everyone's door, but most people hope that their children are spared from many forms of trouble.

Which is what this thread is about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So than they should have hired a lawyer and fought the five year probation they were placed on.What they should never had done was place their children in position to be plucked by the damm state.
Which is exactly what they did...and their kids payed for their stance.

They should have never been placed on probation in the first place.

Fac it, Mike...anyone can dig up story after story of CPS fucking up and leaving kids in real danger to fend for themselves. Hell...in some cases, being the agency GUILTY of placing them in danger. I already offered up two cases just from my own state, one in which they were overzealous and too quick to act...when there was no need...And one that makes you say WTF are they concerning themselves with people like the Meltievs when they've got real child abuse to deal with?

When you say that these folks should have their kids taken away...because they dared defy the state?...what do you think should happen to the folks at CPS when they place a child into foster care like the case I cited and then don't follow up UNTIL the child is dead from being kept in a closet and given "mean showers"?

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Marini I hope you didn't take my post in any other way than the way it was intended....all intentions were friendly.
I'm a parent too

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So than they should have hired a lawyer and fought the five year probation they were placed on.What they should never had done was place their children in position to be plucked by the damm state.
Which is exactly what they did...and their kids payed for their stance.

They should have never been placed on probation in the first place.

Fac it, Mike...anyone can dig up story after story of CPS fucking up and leaving kids in real danger to fend for themselves. Hell...in some cases, being the agency GUILTY of placing them in danger. I already offered up two cases just from my own state, one in which they were overzealous and too quick to act...when there was no need...And one that makes you say WTF are they concerning themselves with people like the Meltievs when they've got real child abuse to deal with?

When you say that these folks should have their kids taken away...because they dared defy the state?...what do you think should happen to the folks at CPS when they place a child into foster care like the case I cited and then don't follow up UNTIL the child is dead from being kept in a closet and given "mean showers"?

So that somehow eliminates the need of these agencies or the mission that they are charged with ?
Face it CD,as many horror stories you can find concerning the failure of CPS I can match with stories of horror houses administered by blood parents.
Is perfect the enemy of good in all things where government is concerned.
Not in my book,in my book one tries to improve these agencies not eliminate them.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Or,conversely,of how they left a child in the home of an asshole parent who winds up scalding said child with boiling water as a form of discipline .
Of course in order to improve their performance they just might need more funding and lighter case loads....something that will never happen should conservatives and libertarians be allowed to shrink gov.down a such a small size that it can be drowned in a bathtub,right ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Or,conversely,of how they left a child in the home of an asshole parent who winds up scalding said child with boiling water as a form of discipline .
Of course in order to improve their performance they just might need more funding and lighter case loads....something that will never happen should conservatives and libertarians be allowed to shrink gov.down a such a small size that it can be drowned in a bathtub,right ?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

there are a thousand and one stories of kids dying in terrible conditions that the parents hid from case workers, until it was too late
but no, you cant throw money at it cos its just their problem to deal with. except when it comes to tragedy and then they get the blame.
BY law(at least in the UK and in Canada,) they are Forced to investigate EVERY docs call, every ER report, every school report.
People get caught up, innocent and otherwise.
much like the justice system, it fucking sucks.

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ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Marini I hope you didn't take my post in any other way than the way it was intended....all intentions were friendly.
I'm a parent too

I thought you meant it in a positive way.
To live in this world we all have to deal with "trouble".
I also grew up during a time, when I could walk to the neighborhood store, library, etc. at the age of 10.
In the case of the free range parents, I think it's sad that we live in a world that people NEED to be so apprehensive of children walking home from a neighborhood park.
What's next? Children not being allowed to go out in their front yards?

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

now that you mention that...I vaguely remember that also.

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Or,conversely,of how they left a child in the home of an asshole parent who winds up scalding said child with boiling water as a form of discipline .
Of course in order to improve their performance they just might need more funding and lighter case loads....something that will never happen should conservatives and libertarians be allowed to shrink gov.down a such a small size that it can be drowned in a bathtub,right ?

They could get lighter case loads by leaving more parents alone. Parents that are raising their children just fine and healthy. Even if the child points a chicken nugget at a teacher or says a "naughty word."

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Or,conversely,of how they left a child in the home of an asshole parent who winds up scalding said child with boiling water as a form of discipline .
Of course in order to improve their performance they just might need more funding and lighter case loads....something that will never happen should conservatives and libertarians be allowed to shrink gov.down a such a small size that it can be drowned in a bathtub,right ?

They could get lighter case loads by leaving more parents alone. Parents that are raising their children just fine and healthy. Even if the child points a chicken nugget at a teacher or says a "naughty word."

I could get behind that except for this pesky little habit I have of reading the newspapers......doing so daily disabuses one of the idea that child abuse is a rare thing.
Unfortunately it is nowhere near as rare as you,or I ,would like,hence these agencies....are they perfect,no.Do then occasionally attach themselves to situations where maybe they don't belong....probably as often as when they don't get wind of a situation till it is too late.
Bottom line ,for me,is that the need is far to great,the damage done far too substantial for any of the libertarian,conservative models to be utilized.
Sorry Aylee,but I see a need ,and that need supersedes ,IMO, the harm done by the few overzealous bureaucrats.
Basically,I'm of a mind that you don't throw out the baby with the bath water(pun intended) the benefits of diligent CPS far outweighs any harm that you think might be being done.