Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Where is America Headed?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Where is America Headed? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 2:53:39 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
When I was in Africa in the 1960's I was asked why American’s, especially black American’s, would burn down their own homes and businesses. I had no answer. To them, it wasn’t an attempt to correct a wrong, it was an attempt to correct a wrong with a bigger wrong and made them ashamed of the American black community.

They had no problem with attempting to create a better life and protesting the ills put upon the American blacks. They also had an issue with how it made all blacks look throughout the world.

Now we see, as we have in the past, that Black America hasn’t changed its tactics much. I see these tactics as:
• Burn down and loot the local community.
• Attack anyone, including blacks, that do not support what you are doing.
• Demand immediate change through mob violence.
• Create a larger divide within the community.
• Rush to judgement without waiting for a proper investigation to occur.

What I see as the outcome of these tactics
• Mom & Pop shops go out of business because insurance won’t cover their losses.
• Big business losses result in either gains from insurance or closure because of the losses.
• The local community loses jobs and must travel further to obtain goods and services increasing the cost of those goods and services.
• Blacks losing prestige in the world’s eye where they are seen as lawless and terrorists.
• And something new to the mix is the POTUS sending representatives, standing with the lawlessness over the rule of law by rushing to judgement. (i.e. Brown funeral)

I believe the following
• My family are multi ethnic. My children are African American, my grand children are Hispanic. My father was listed on the roles of the nations in Oklahoma. In America, we are considered to all be White. We cannot be an American because that doesn’t fit into the racial mix. When we fill out the forms, the employer/government demands we choose from some other box than what we truly are. I believe that this creates a divide.
• I believe that the ballot box is the place to start change. If we elect idiots, we get idiotic laws and rules and nothing changes. Elect this person because he is black or female or whatever, without looking at the qualifications, background, etc of the individual. There have been idiots elected from all sides of the aisle. Why, because we don’t investigate, debate and educate ourselves.
• I believe that acts of violence and lawlessness creates a greater divide than it helps. I prefer the tenants of Ghandi and King.
• I believe that political correctness has gone to far. Hell, even American Citizens are prohibited from wearing a shirt with a picture of the US Flag on Mexican holidays because someone might be offended.
• I believe that the power of the States and of the people are being eroded and I don’t like it.

What do I see coming?
• I see the potential for armed conflict increasing. People from all walks of life are getting tired of what has been happening.
• I see the potential for things getting worse before they get better exists.
• I see big brother getting bigger.

What do you think?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 3:13:37 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
on top of all that you said there ken, id add:

in the long view, America is heading in the direction of ancient rome.

in the short view, its heading towards European social democracy.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 3:25:33 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
I have to agree there too Bounty Thanks for the thoughts

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 3:53:47 PM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline
I think the majority of all US black communities agree with you. The marches against violence in Baltimore strongly suggest this. Stereotyping the whole black community for the actions of a largely adolescent male group is as bad from inside the minority community as from outside. That the political power structure of Baltimore has been black for a long time has been conveniently ignored by the infotainment industry and those willing to loot and burn their own communities. A number of observers in Baltimore have commented that a sizable portion of violent protesters were from outside the areas of the protests, and regular participants. How this indicts the greater black community nationwide is unclear.
Current social media do not lend to measured consideration of causes and consequences, this is new and provocateurs exploit it. The Infotainment industry that has emerged from the ethics vacuum of corporate ownership is as problematic and another destabilizing influence in current public life. Yet more bread and circuses to keep the masses preoccupied by issues other than their exploitation?? Or just seeking profit at any cost?
Seeking redress for world wide issues of racial and economic oppression, and dysfunctional responses to those, in largely corrupt and short sighted local politics (States Rights) seems as ill-informed by history as an approach could be. Our current embarrassing national legislative dog and pony show is not the answer, I fear a complete rework of US politics may be required. Dr. King and others created a national consensus for freedom with social responsibility. The momentum was lost, the ball dropped. How to re-establish this is not obvious.
Believing armed conflict is inevitable, or an effective answer to anything, are both self-fulfilling prophesies of social disintegration. A larger faith in people is required for any solution towards reintegration, each of America's successful responses to challenges has included this. Such faith was the core of the non-violent successes of Gandhi and King.

Flags mean many things. Wearing 7th Calvary uniforms to a First Nations event isn't a bit provocative? Or a Imperial French flag to Cinco de Mayo events? A Confederate Battle Flag shirt might be misunderstood at a rally against racism, Or correctly interpreted? A shirt with all the Western Hemisphere flags that resulted from revolutions against foreign powers might be an wider gesture? Might not parts of the military history of the US vs Mexico be included in these events by those who have histories and ancestral identifications outside the US? As a First Nations individual, surely simply that America did (or does) something doesn't justify it as right?
It's a very insecure individual or group who take offense against anyone else celebrating their separate culture and history. We all learn from each other or we suffer from not knowing our neighbors or Humanity.
I'm absolutely certain current urban culture has forgotten and needs many lessons all the First Nations knew. Their failure to respond successfully to the economic, military and other challenges during the expansion of Western domination of the Hemisphere says their wisdom was not sufficient to the times. The times are new and unprecedented, we all learn and grow together or history may actually end in our times. Looking backwards isn't a luxury we can afford anymore. Grow or die?

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 5/17/2015 3:57:55 PM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 4:04:31 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

Unfortunately, I agree with the assessment that the violence will increase; so much so that I have eschewed invoking my 2nd amendment rights for a long time (over a decade) but, I have recently, re-armed.

I used to think that I was no longer willing to take a human life but recent events has shown me, differently. I will take a life that threatens mine.

I also think that it's pathetically ironic that it has taken this country less than fifty years to turn the likes of Charles Manson into a fucking prophet!



Michael


< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/17/2015 4:06:30 PM >


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to epiphiny43)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 4:15:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Unfortunately, I agree with the assessment that the violence will increase; so much so that I have eschewed invoking my 2nd amendment rights for a long time (over a decade) but, I have recently, re-armed.

I used to think that I was no longer willing to take a human life but recent events has shown me, differently. I will take a life that threatens mine.

I also think that it's pathetically ironic that it has taken this country less than fifty years to turn the likes of Charles Manson into a fucking prophet!



Michael


This feels (in relation to civil unrest and cop hatred
[which is key part of this] ) a lot like the 60's which was by no means all peace love and hippy beads. And I find this unfortunate as well.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 5/17/2015 4:17:32 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 4:31:07 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
Dude...pagination.


quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

I think the majority of all US black communities agree with you. The marches against violence in Baltimore strongly suggest this. Stereotyping the whole black community for the actions of a largely adolescent male group is as bad from inside the minority community as from outside. That the political power structure of Baltimore has been black for a long time has been conveniently ignored by the infotainment industry and those willing to loot and burn their own communities. A number of observers in Baltimore have commented that a sizable portion of violent protesters were from outside the areas of the protests, and regular participants. How this indicts the greater black community nationwide is unclear.


See, you always start off reasonable before you go into screed.

quote:


Current social media do not lend to measured consideration of causes and consequences, this is new and provocateurs exploit it. The Infotainment industry that has emerged from the ethics vacuum of corporate ownership is as problematic and another destabilizing influence in current public life.


So I'm sensing you'd prefer a state controlled media like Pravda, or what's happening in Argintinia now.


quote:


Yet more bread and circuses to keep the masses preoccupied by issues other than their exploitation??


For instance the exploitation of the illigals coming here who are being allowed in for their votes, the ones who drive wages down for jobs that The 52,000,000 out of work American workers would probably prefer to welfare if the market was allowed to set wages.

quote:


Or just seeking profit at any cost?
Seeking redress for world wide issues of racial and economic oppression, and dysfunctional responses to those, in largely corrupt and short sighted local politics (States Rights) seems as ill-informed by history as an approach could be.


Yes, let's not decentralize government. Let's make it big and powerful so those short sighted people in the Govenors mansions can't have a voice. Let's keep access to government for the people as difficult as possible. Sounding more Castro - Lenin - Mao all the time. Why don't you just say you're an ol timey communist, probably pre-70's era.


quote:


Our current embarrassing national legislative dog and pony show is not the answer, I fear a complete rework of US politics may be required.


There you go. You really do resent Roosevelt, as every communist does, because you wish that the masses would have risen in revolution and you really belive the only reason they didn't is because of the New Deal. Personally, I'm minded of Churchill who said, paraphrased, democracy is the ugliest and worst form of government, except all of the others. But, I love how you cast your dispersions without offering what you believe would fix things.


quote:


Dr. King and others created a national consensus for freedom with social responsibility. The momentum was lost, the ball dropped. How to re-establish this is not obvious.
Believing armed conflict is inevitable, or an effective answer to anything,



Excepting, of course, the People's revolutions of course.


quote:


are both self-fulfilling prophesies of social disintegration. A larger faith in people is required for any solution towards reintegration, each of America's successful responses to challenges has included this. Such faith was the core of the non-violent successes of Gandhi and King.



Yea that seems to be working out real well for Jesse Jackson but few others. Including India and Pakistan. See, others can just be nay sayers as well.

quote:


Flags mean many things. Wearing 7th Calvary uniforms to a First Nations event isn't a bit provocative? Or a Imperial French flag to Cinco de Mayo events? A Confederate Battle Flag shirt might be misunderstood at a rally against racism, Or correctly interpreted? A shirt with all the Western Hemisphere flags that resulted from revolutions against foreign powers might be an wider gesture? Might not parts of the military history of the US vs Mexico be included in these events by those who have histories and ancestral identifications outside the US? As a First Nations individual, surely simply that America did (or does) something doesn't justify it as right?
It's a very insecure individual or group who take offense against anyone else celebrating their separate culture and history. We all learn from each other or we suffer from not knowing our neighbors or Humanity.


You do sermonize purty.



quote:



I'm absolutely certain current urban culture has forgotten and needs many lessons all the First Nations knew.


Let me guess, these first unnamed nations were pre-western imperial hegemony, right?

quote:


Their failure to respond successfully to the economic, military and other challenges during the expansion of Western domination of the Hemisphere says their wisdom was not sufficient to the times. The times are new and unprecedented, we all learn and grow together or history may actually end in our times. Looking backwards isn't a luxury we can afford anymore. Grow or die?



Oh goodie...I guessed right. Yay for me.

Let's see. Yesterday I linked to an article where scholars now believed Mao in China killed off something like 80,000,000 of his people and in the western imperial hegemony poor people eat at least three decent meals a day, own a car, have air conditioning and more than one color TV. Ummm? Which one? Shall I pick the communists or the imperialists? Oh, it's just so hard to choose. Let's see, we build a wall to keep people out. They build walls, place land minds and machine gun towers around the walls to keep people in. I just can't choose. Why don't you help with advise.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 5/17/2015 4:35:06 PM >

(in reply to epiphiny43)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 6:26:52 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43
Our current embarrassing national legislative dog and pony show is not the answer, I fear a complete rework of US politics may be required. Dr. King and others created a national consensus for freedom with social responsibility. The momentum was lost, the ball dropped. How to re-establish this is not obvious.
Believing armed conflict is inevitable, or an effective answer to anything, are both self-fulfilling prophesies of social disintegration. A larger faith in people is required for any solution towards reintegration, each of America's successful responses to challenges has included this. Such faith was the core of the non-violent successes of Gandhi and King.


The problem with having "a larger faith in people," is that people constantly demonstrate why that faith will not likely ever be met with reality. There are fucking idiots from every group in the US. Every time some fucking idiot from one group does something stupid that involves another group (whether it's directed at that group or not), fucking idiots from that other group demonstrate their fucking idiocy. That fosters more fucking idiocy from the first group, and other groups. It's pretty fucked up, really.

The majority in any given group (who aren't the fucking idiots) need to increase their activity in preventing the fucking idiots in their own group from demonstrating their fucking idiocy. We saw in Baltimore that adults started to come together to help quell the riots. That's a fantastic start.

The US Constitution includes the right to peaceably assemble. Rioting is not protected under the Constitution, as it is not peaceable assembly.

We, as a people, have a lot more to do to heal the racial divide in the country. We've truly come a long way, but the journey isn't over yet.

quote:

Flags mean many things. Wearing 7th Calvary uniforms to a First Nations event isn't a bit provocative? Or a Imperial French flag to Cinco de Mayo events? A Confederate Battle Flag shirt might be misunderstood at a rally against racism, Or correctly interpreted? A shirt with all the Western Hemisphere flags that resulted from revolutions against foreign powers might be an wider gesture? Might not parts of the military history of the US vs Mexico be included in these events by those who have histories and ancestral identifications outside the US? As a First Nations individual, surely simply that America did (or does) something doesn't justify it as right?
It's a very insecure individual or group who take offense against anyone else celebrating their separate culture and history. We all learn from each other or we suffer from not knowing our neighbors or Humanity.
I'm absolutely certain current urban culture has forgotten and needs many lessons all the First Nations knew. Their failure to respond successfully to the economic, military and other challenges during the expansion of Western domination of the Hemisphere says their wisdom was not sufficient to the times. The times are new and unprecedented, we all learn and grow together or history may actually end in our times. Looking backwards isn't a luxury we can afford anymore. Grow or die?


Sure, flags absolutely do stand for something. The example of students in an American school not being allowed to wear a t-shirt with an American flag on it on Cinco de Mayo, is an amazing abuse of power by the school. Some Latino students may have gotten irritated by the US flag being worn, but how many non-Latinos get irritated by the US flag not being allowed to be worn? The school was probably hypocritical, too. I can't state for a fact, but what are the odds that the school didn't have the American flag on display?

Damn near everything has a risk to pissing someone off. Do we really want to prevent everyone from doing things that might irritate someone else? Some people in "the lifestyle" like dealing with brats. Some get irritated by that. Should that be allowed? I'm of the opinion that just because it's not my thing doesn't mean it can't be anyone else's thing.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to epiphiny43)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Where is America Headed? - 5/17/2015 6:27:36 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
I do think that socialization plays a great part in the feelings of the majority of Americans. It has created an era of have's (the working classes) and have not's (the non working classes). Something that has held true since the beginning of recorded time. Kings, land barons, etc being my example. However, the current model of socialization is to take from those that earn a wage (regardless of how they got it or how much they got) and give it to those who don't work whatever the reason (Unemployment, disability, doesn't want to work, etc). We pay out of our paycheck a fee for some social services but not all that are provided. I think the social "entitlements" do need to be looked at with an eye toward finding a better way.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 9
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Where is America Headed? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078