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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/3/2015 2:05:33 PM   
Sanity


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First you wrote, "if corps can negotiate with the IRS to change/halve their tax rate then that's not fair to voters or to small business that dont have the deep pockets to hire the tax lawyers the big corps hire."

Now its "lobbied govt for that loophole"

Once you pin down what it is that you want to discuss, feel free to get back with us

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/3/2015 2:29:50 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Only an imbecile would think a lawyer cannot be a lobbyist, or a lobbyist a lawyer.

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/3/2015 2:45:21 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

there is mindless propaganda on both sides, both from the Ds & the Rs.. the lobbyists and big corps win no matter which party wins, corps and lobbyists try to manipulate both parties (& frequently donate to both)..

I am not screaming tax me, I believe in fairness and if corps can negotiate with the IRS to change/halve their tax rate then that's not fair to voters or to small business that dont have the deep pockets to hire the tax lawyers the big corps hire.. big corps have unfair advantages that small business doesnt have.. and when Oracle halved its taxes, it wasnt a benefit to consumers or taxpayers, it was a benefit to shareholders (whose dividend doubled)..

https://fortune.com/2013/07/22/the-tax-break-that-corporate-america-wants-kept-secret/


Though the IRS is a political tool under the Obama regime, I think your IRS issues are another completely separate topic




The IRS is and has always been a political tool of the 'republican' goons and thugs whether in or out of regime.

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/3/2015 4:07:23 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am sure that the power of effective advertising had its effect, but again it didn't buy the vote. And if votes were directly bought more than one person needs to go to jail.


You are wrong plain and simple. You dont need to buy votes to win an election, all you need to do is buy the advertising space.

The link explains how this works across the political divide.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/06/money-bought-elections-us-donation-rules

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/3/2015 5:37:54 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am sure that the power of effective advertising had its effect, but again it didn't buy the vote. And if votes were directly bought more than one person needs to go to jail.


You are wrong plain and simple. You dont need to buy votes to win an election, all you need to do is buy the advertising space.

The link explains how this works across the political divide.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/06/money-bought-elections-us-donation-rules


The article "explains" no such thing

Its pure stupidity

Just more of the usual leftist hand-wringing over conservatives enjoying free speech. The idiots who wrote the garbage claim that money "buys" elections, but alas that is impossible. Money can get messages out and try to persuade people to vote a certain way (just as speech may), but the idea that money "buys" elections is more hysterical propaganda from the usual suspects

Why the Left Hates "Citizens United"

Why are Democrats still obsessed with Citizens United?




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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 8:08:35 AM   
Lucylastic


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According to a new poll, Democrats are gaining an advantage over Republicans—47% of Americans surveyed by Gallup over the past year identified themselves as Democrats or leaning Democratic. Meanwhile, 42 percent called themselves Republicans or say they lean towards the GOP.

In 2010 and 2011 the parties were neck and neck.

The survey showed that Americans indentifying themselves as strictly Democratic (31%) and Republican (28%) have changed little. The movement has come largely from independents. The number of Democratic-leaning independents is getting bigger while the pool of Republican-leaning independents is getting smaller.

Gallup has been tracking party identification since 1991. During that time, the Dems have usually had an advantage. That includes 2008 when President Barack Obama had a record-high margin of 12 points, with 52% saying identifying as Democrat or leaning Democrat and 40% saying they were Republican or leaning Republican.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/159740/democrats-establish-lead-party-affiliation.aspx




http://www.gallup.com/poll/183491/republican-conservative-base-shrinks.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 8:19:34 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		If I were king;

Political contributions would be limited to individuals with a $2,000 limit.

Lobbing would be permitted but financial contributions and gifts would also be limited to $2,000 for each entity or completely eliminated.

Do this and the power will be immediately shifted from special interests and business back where it belongs… to the people.

Ps… I am now accepting $2,000 contributions for my 2047 presidential run.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/4/2015 8:20:28 AM >

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 8:22:42 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


According to a new poll, Democrats are gaining an advantage over Republicans—47% of Americans surveyed by Gallup over the past year identified themselves as Democrats or leaning Democratic. Meanwhile, 42 percent called themselves Republicans or say they lean towards the GOP.

In 2010 and 2011 the parties were neck and neck.

The survey showed that Americans indentifying themselves as strictly Democratic (31%) and Republican (28%) have changed little. The movement has come largely from independents. The number of Democratic-leaning independents is getting bigger while the pool of Republican-leaning independents is getting smaller.

Gallup has been tracking party identification since 1991. During that time, the Dems have usually had an advantage. That includes 2008 when President Barack Obama had a record-high margin of 12 points, with 52% saying identifying as Democrat or leaning Democrat and 40% saying they were Republican or leaning Republican.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/159740/democrats-establish-lead-party-affiliation.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183491/republican-conservative-base-shrinks.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles


Well THAT would explain the Republican landslide last year then, wouldnt it!

No, wait...

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 11:48:18 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		There was no republican landslide last year.

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 12:27:52 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


First you wrote, "if corps can negotiate with the IRS to change/halve their tax rate then that's not fair to voters or to small business that dont have the deep pockets to hire the tax lawyers the big corps hire."

Now its "lobbied govt for that loophole"

Once you pin down what it is that you want to discuss, feel free to get back with us

it all comes down to money big corps/the 1% have to spend to get what they want.. money for lobbyists.. money for tax lawyers.. money for political party donations.. money for veiled or outright bribes.. And all of it is spent to generate considerably more back than what was spent.. This is America, they don't care who they screw or how dirty they have to get..

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 12:35:39 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


First you wrote, "if corps can negotiate with the IRS to change/halve their tax rate then that's not fair to voters or to small business that dont have the deep pockets to hire the tax lawyers the big corps hire."

Now its "lobbied govt for that loophole"

Once you pin down what it is that you want to discuss, feel free to get back with us

it all comes down to money big corps/the 1% have to spend to get what they want.. money for lobbyists.. money for tax lawyers.. money for political party donations.. money for veiled or outright bribes.. And all of it is spent to generate considerably more back than what was spent.. This is America, they don't care who they screw or how dirty they have to get..



Your solution is?
What other civilization ever didn't have the same sort of thing?
Where, outside America, do they care who they screw?

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 12:39:02 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Most of Scandinavia for instance.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 12:42:53 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://samuel-warde.com/2015/06/alec-responds-to-11alive-investigation/

More republican goons and thugs masquerading as non-political organisations.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 1:11:36 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


First you wrote, "if corps can negotiate with the IRS to change/halve their tax rate then that's not fair to voters or to small business that dont have the deep pockets to hire the tax lawyers the big corps hire."

Now its "lobbied govt for that loophole"

Once you pin down what it is that you want to discuss, feel free to get back with us

it all comes down to money big corps/the 1% have to spend to get what they want.. money for lobbyists.. money for tax lawyers.. money for political party donations.. money for veiled or outright bribes.. And all of it is spent to generate considerably more back than what was spent.. This is America, they don't care who they screw or how dirty they have to get..



Your solution is?
What other civilization ever didn't have the same sort of thing?
Where, outside America, do they care who they screw?

For a civilized country, the US is the worst and US big corps/multinationals and the US govt spread their policies and slimy tactics into other countries.. that makes it harder to find a country worth living in.. and it is a big beef of mine with Canada, that our proximity to the US means the US continually pushes their way on us especially.. Pot would have been legalized in Canada decades ago if it were not for the pressure from the US govt... Politicans in other countries have to look at what the US does and then do the opposite!

As far as money in elections goes, in Canada you can donate only a very small amount and campaigns are mostly funded by taxpayers, with the amount they get based on the votes they got in the last election & by tax credits.. only 20% are from private donations.. so its fairer and politicians have to actually listen to what Canadian voters want.. So imo, the solution to big money in US elections is take the money out of them..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 6/4/2015 1:12:27 PM >

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 1:21:35 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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So in Canada now, all politicians are completely honest. All corporations are completely honest

And I suppose that in socialist utopias such as Venezuela its even more so

And in communist heaven, Cuba... Such things are immaculate

We just need more government regulation (from the government) to keep government honest

?







< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/4/2015 1:22:55 PM >

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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 1:30:54 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


So in Canada now, all politicians are completely honest. All corporations are completely honest

And I suppose that in socialist utopias such as Venezuela its even more so

And in communist heaven, Cuba... Such things are immaculate

We just need more government regulation (from the government) to keep government honest

?

I said it was fairer and that the parties have to listen more to the voters.. I never said it was a perfect system.. I never commented on Cuba or Venezuela and dont consider those countries to be comparable to Canada or the US.. As far as govt regulation goes, you have govt regulations now, they just totally suck.. they need to be changed imo.. but your corrupt political system makes that pretty hard to do cuz voters really have no say in anything (regardless of the kool aid the politicians feed ya'll)...

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 1:36:56 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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No say... We vote, we choose the politicians who write the laws, and thats "no say"

But campaigns getting their message out, people buying advertising, somehow thats all the "say"

If we could only limit free speech, that would fix everything...





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RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 1:50:43 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


No say... We vote, we choose the politicians who write the laws, and thats "no say"

But campaigns getting their message out, people buying advertising, somehow thats all the "say"

If we could only limit free speech, that would fix everything...

There are countries that dont allow paid-for political advertising and it works for them..

Keep drinking the kool-aid.. If you like your corrupt political system then keep it the way it is.. like i said before, why the fuck should i care?

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 2:12:30 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

There are countries that dont allow paid-for political advertising and it works for them..

Keep drinking the kool-aid.. If you like your corrupt political system then keep it the way it is.. like i said before, why the fuck should i care?


That you refer to my favoring free speech over government regulation of speech so, only makes me laugh

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Big Money in Elections - 6/4/2015 3:35:43 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am sure that the power of effective advertising had its effect, but again it didn't buy the vote. And if votes were directly bought more than one person needs to go to jail.


You are wrong plain and simple. You dont need to buy votes to win an election, all you need to do is buy the advertising space.

The link explains how this works across the political divide.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/06/money-bought-elections-us-donation-rules


The article "explains" no such thing

Its pure stupidity

Just more of the usual leftist hand-wringing over conservatives enjoying free speech. The idiots who wrote the garbage claim that money "buys" elections, but alas that is impossible. Money can get messages out and try to persuade people to vote a certain way (just as speech may), but the idea that money "buys" elections is more hysterical propaganda from the usual suspects

Why the Left Hates "Citizens United"

Why are Democrats still obsessed with Citizens United?






Of course its more stupidity, you couldnt follow anything that wasnt stupid.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 80
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