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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 9:03:52 AM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

There are no "rules" of engagement when protecting yourself.

Being a human being obviously means different things to us.

K.




I can live with that.


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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 9:05:49 AM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Pause to aim for an attacker's arms or legs? Ah, no, ain't no fool here.

Fuck the "pause" shit, aiming is aiming. Where depends on circumstances, range, and how much you're enjoying the chance to kill somebody.

K.






I will tell my attacker after I kill him that I will do better next time.

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"We master Our world."

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 10:09:01 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No but it has to be the their fault anyway. After all we all know killers... I mean cops...are the cause of all black men's deaths in this country...Damn pigs!!!!

That is what I thought but I wanted you to spell it out for the dense among us.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 10:10:10 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I'm still trying to convince Bama that people fucking is the #1 cause of pregnancy. Careful with that "we all know" stuff.

But it is not the cause of the destruction of the black family.
Or do you think that blacks discovered sex when the war on poverty began?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/5/2015 10:12:38 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 10:11:37 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

It might be a surprise that we finally find some common ground on a gun-related issue, but I have to say that I agree with all the sentiments expressed above. It seems pretty clear that more training of police in the areas you've identified can only lead to positive outcomes. Chapeau!


I agree as well... now if we could only train some of the people they serve to be civilized... we would have an even better outcome. Just maybe we could reduce the 55 black on black murders in St. Louis so far this year...at least up to and including April.

I guess because police pull over blacks more than whites that they decided to go out and kill each other... see i knew it was the police departments fault.

Butch

Look at the bright side, you don't live in Baltimore.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 10:15:16 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

Look at the bright side, you don't live in Baltimore.


Why... that's the police fault as well... they allowed 27 pharmacies to be looted during the rioting and now there is a gang war over all the new drugs on the street.

Butch

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 10:19:51 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Look at the bright side, you don't live in Baltimore.


Why... that's the police fault as well... they allowed 27 pharmacies to be looted during the rioting and now there is a gang war over all the new drugs on the street.

Butch

But to be more serious, it is the mayors fault for throwing the cops under the bus.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 10:23:48 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Pause to aim for an attacker's arms or legs? Ah, no, ain't no fool here.

Fuck the "pause" shit, aiming is aiming. Where depends on circumstances, range, and how much you're enjoying the chance to kill somebody.

K.





I am surprised at you taking this tack. You know what happens if you hit a femoral artery. You also know that arms and legs are moving more than the body and a hit there, unless it kills, (see second sentence) is less likely to stop an attacker. Brown was shot repeatedly in the arm and it didn't even slow him down.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 11:31:40 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I am surprised at you taking this tack. You know what happens if you hit a femoral artery. You also know that arms and legs are moving more than the body and a hit there, unless it kills, (see second sentence) is less likely to stop an attacker. Brown was shot repeatedly in the arm and it didn't even slow him down.

I never said anything to suggest that I thought an arm shot would take someone down. But a leg shot is more likely to take a guy off his feet than a center of mass hit, and a tourniquet isn't an option if you hit the heart or an artery in the chest or abdomen. Also, we're not talking about movement across your line of fire. If he's coming straight at you, the movement is in the line of fire, and if the guy doesn't have a gun, you just want him down, not dead. At the ranges we're talking about, it's not a hard shot. Anyone who can't hit a fucking grapefruit less than ten feet in front of them without taking three deep breaths and saying a prayer is incompetent with their firearm.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/5/2015 11:54:45 AM >

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 11:41:28 AM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I am surprised at you taking this tack. You know what happens if you hit a femoral artery. You also know that arms and legs are moving more than the body and a hit there, unless it kills, (see second sentence) is less likely to stop an attacker. Brown was shot repeatedly in the arm and it didn't even slow him down.

I never said anything to suggest that I thought an arm shot would take someone down. But a leg shot is more likely to take a guy off his feet than a center of mass hit, and a tourniquet isn't an option if you hit the heart or an artery in the chest or abdomen. Also, we're not talking about movement across your line of fire. If he's coming straight at you, the movement is in the line of fire. And at the ranges we're talking about, it's not a hard shot. If you can't hit a fucking grapefruit less than ten feet in front of you without taking a deep breath and saying a hopeful prayer, you are incompetent with your firearm.

K.




I'm not going to argue with you K but I think the idea is silly. Silly because when you're in a life or death situation you just want it to stop with you the victor. Silly also because when that guy sues you for shooting him the jury is not going to believe you did it to save his life. I've known two guys who lost everything in such suits. Well, one deserved it. He told me he blew the arm and leg off a guy with a shotgun. When he was tried in court for the crime the victim was standing there on one leg and one arm and the jury was very sympathetic. The guy got 10 years in prison. He told me, "if I have fucking killed him I'd have only gotten five years for murder." So there you go. When you shoot someone, there should be only one story told in court.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 6/5/2015 11:42:19 AM >

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 11:42:23 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I never said anything to suggest that I thought an arm shot would take someone down. But a leg shot is more likely to take a guy off his feet than a center of mass hit, and a tourniquet isn't an option if you hit the heart or an artery in the chest or abdomen. Also, we're not talking about movement across your line of fire. If he's coming straight at you, the movement is in the line of fire. And at the ranges we're talking about, it's not a hard shot. Anyone who can't hit a fucking grapefruit less than ten feet in front of them is incompetent with their firearm. If the guy doesn't have a gun, you just want him down. Not dead.

K.

[/font][/size]


How fast is this theoretical knife-wielding grapefruit moving toward you, and with how much side-to-side motion

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 11:44:43 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

How fast is this theoretical knife-wielding grapefruit moving toward you, and with how much side-to-side motion

Well you can't take a shot you don't have, but that isn't argument against taking it if you have it.

K.


(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 11:46:13 AM   
HunterCA


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Status: offline 		Actually, studies on police who were killed or injured show that if a person with a knife is within 23 feet of you, he'll get you before you can draw and shoot him. If seen pictures of people slashed with knives bled out. It's a race K. You are racing to the finish line. You're not racing to a grapefruit size spot on the finish line ribbon.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 11:50:25 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Actually, studies on police who were killed or injured show that if a person with a knife is within 23 feet of you, he'll get you before you can draw and shoot him. If seen pictures of people slashed with knives bled out. It's a race K. You are racing to the finish line. You're not racing to a grapefruit size spot on the finish line ribbon.

Well if the shot isn't on the table, then it isn't on the table. That still isn't an argument against taking it if you have it. Are you saying that you don't think firing at his legs was an option in the video I posted?

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/5/2015 11:53:28 AM >

(in reply to HunterCA)
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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 11:51:21 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I am surprised at you taking this tack. You know what happens if you hit a femoral artery. You also know that arms and legs are moving more than the body and a hit there, unless it kills, (see second sentence) is less likely to stop an attacker. Brown was shot repeatedly in the arm and it didn't even slow him down.

I never said anything to suggest that I thought an arm shot would take someone down. But a leg shot is more likely to take a guy off his feet than a center of mass hit, and a tourniquet isn't an option if you hit the heart or an artery in the chest or abdomen. Also, we're not talking about movement across your line of fire. If he's coming straight at you, the movement is in the line of fire, and if the guy doesn't have a gun, you just want him down, not dead. And at the ranges we're talking about, it's not a hard shot. Anyone who can't hit a fucking grapefruit less than ten feet in front of them without take three deep breaths and saying a prayer is incompetent with their firearm.

K.



Sorry but the AF, the Army National Guard and two Pds taught me otherwise.
With the femoral artery by the time he quits fighting you it will be too late to apply a tourniquet. Not only that but if he lives he can sue, and win with the right jury. The way to stay alive is not to attack. He chose violence. He who lives by the knife dies by the gun.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 11:56:03 AM   
HunterCA


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Status: offline 		K...only one story should be told in court.

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 12:00:46 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Not only that but if he lives he can sue, and win with the right jury.

Well I'll admit to being behind the curve on the legal aspects, but I'm not very comfortable with the argument that it's better to kill someone even if you don't have to.

K.


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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 12:09:41 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Not only that but if he lives he can sue, and win with the right jury.

Well I'll admit to being behind the curve on the legal aspects, but I'm not very comfortable with the argument that it's better to kill someone even if you don't have to.

K.



Henry Fonda Firecreek A man worth shooting is a man worth killing.
I am not going to shoot unless there is cause to kill.
And yes you are less likely to go to jail for killing them than for wounding them.
If alive they are going to claim to have done nothing even threatening and that you just started shooting for no apparent reason.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/5/2015 12:12:36 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 12:15:54 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAogPMTCkKE

Ya figure firing at his legs would have been asking the cops to make a Hollywood "trick shot"?

K.[/font][/size]




Looked to me like he was defying police orders, he had a hand in a jacket pocket, and was moving toward the cop while already in a dangerously close proximity

Maybe the cops could have shot a leg, but maybe that would have turned out badly for the cop he was moving toward.

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RE: Police Shoot to Death One Unarmed Person Every 3 Da... - 6/5/2015 8:57:57 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Actually, studies on police who were killed or injured show that if a person with a knife is within 23 feet of you, he'll get you before you can draw and shoot him. If seen pictures of people slashed with knives bled out. It's a race K. You are racing to the finish line. You're not racing to a grapefruit size spot on the finish line ribbon.



I'd take those odds, being attacked with a knife with 99.9% chance of survival versus a gun with 99.9% chance of death.

Because something is possible does not make it likely to happen which appears to be the grounds for your premise.

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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