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RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/17/2015 5:31:37 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2416
Joined: 12/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/16/top-obama-official-admits-that-iran-will-likely-use-sanctions-money-to-fund-terror-video/

When we unfreeze the money to Iran (assuming it is done) then according to questions from CNN Wolf Blitzer the white house admits it could go to fund terrorists. Watch the video.


Of COURSE it will go to fund terrorists. Why on earth Iran stop doing that?

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/17/2015 5:32:51 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2416
Joined: 12/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I wonder, what is the rush?


I think the urgency - from the western side - was about getting inspectors in there. From what I'm hearing, this is the most rigorous and thoroughgoing inspection regime ever put in place.


The urgency is getting inspectors in there as the multi-lateral sanctions are falling apart.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/17/2015 5:48:12 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Anyone for a thread in 'polls and random' entitled 'Ask Zonie the stupidest question you can think of!'


I tend to be a very literal thinker.

Back when I was in college, my roommates and I had some friends over for some steaks. When the steaks were ready and we were dishing it up, one of the guys asked "How do you guys cut your steak?" What he was really asking for was utensils (we were a bit disorganized), but I took him literally and answered "Well, I just usually cut it into bite-sized pieces." There was this delayed laughter among the group which didn't quite register with me, until they explained it to me.

Edit: (Just so I don't drift too far from the topic, it was around the same time as the Iran-Contra scandal.)

< Message edited by Zonie63 -- 7/17/2015 5:50:57 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/17/2015 6:07:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Obama and Kerrys fantastic deal -

quote:

What we get:

- Iran reduces by about half the number of centrifuges actively enriching uranium

- Iran reduces its stockpile of enriched uranium from about five tons to 300 kilograms

- Iran repurposes its heavy water reactor in Arak so it does not produce plutonium

- An unspecified increase in inspections by the IAEA

What Iran gets:

Sanctions relief:

- Almost every type of U.S., EU, and UN sanctions lifted

- Repeal of six UN Security Council resolutions declaring the Iranian nuclear program illegal

- Top IRGC and Quds Force terrorists removed from the sanctions list, including Qassem Suleimani, leader of Iran’s campaign against U.S. soldiers in Iraq, and Ahmad Vahidi, mastermind of the 1994 Jewish community center bombing in Argentina that killed 85 people

- The removal from the sanctions list of approximately 800 people and legal entities, including 23 out of 24 Iranian banks

- $100 to $150 billion to be unfrozen and given to Iran with no restrictions on its use to purchase arms and fund terrorism, including funding for Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Assad regime in Syria

Nuclear program:

- Iran keeps every one of its nuclear centrifuges

- Iran keeps its entire physical nuclear infrastructure, including the enrichment facilities at Fordow and Natanz and the nuclear reactor at Bushehr

- Iran permitted to continue research and development on all of its advanced centrifuge designs, reducing nuclear breakout time at the end of the deal to weeks

- Iran permitted to transition its allowed enrichment of uranium from older centrifuge designs to advanced designs

- No “anywhere, anytime” inspections. Iran can delay inspection of any site for at least 24 days

- No requirement that Iran fully disclose past nuclear weapons research and development (known as the PMD issue)

- The P5+1 western powers pledge to collaborate with Iran on nuclear technology

- Restrictions on enrichment – part of the “sunset” of the deal – are lifted after eight years

- If Iran is thought to have violated the deal, in order to “snap back” sanctions a dispute resolution process must be undertaken that can last two and a half months, after which the matter can be referred to the UN Security Council. At the UNSC, the re-imposition of sanctions can be vetoed by Russia, which stands to earn billions of dollars from arms sales to a non-sanctioned Iran.

Concessions unrelated to nuclear program:

- Ballistic missile embargo lifted after eight years


- Conventional arms embargo lifted after five years

- Iran keeps U.S. hostages


With leaders like this who needs enemies


Sanity, without this deal, everything could have headed towards war. Do you want that? Would you put yourself forward to fight in it? I mean, I know you ultra-righties are all muscular types who are gung-ho for some gung-ho physical action and stuff, whereas us lefties are all bit namby-pamby and limp-wristed ... but would you *really* be up for some blood-and-guts fighting out in the ME? Or if not you, your kids, or the kids of your friends and relatives?

What is your alternative to this deal? Please do say - the rest of us are dying to hear. Spell out how, in your view, it *should have gone*. Mmmh?

And helping Iran get nukes promotes peace, how?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/17/2015 7:13:13 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2416
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Obama and Kerrys fantastic deal -

quote:

What we get:

- Iran reduces by about half the number of centrifuges actively enriching uranium

- Iran reduces its stockpile of enriched uranium from about five tons to 300 kilograms

- Iran repurposes its heavy water reactor in Arak so it does not produce plutonium

- An unspecified increase in inspections by the IAEA

What Iran gets:

Sanctions relief:

- Almost every type of U.S., EU, and UN sanctions lifted

- Repeal of six UN Security Council resolutions declaring the Iranian nuclear program illegal

- Top IRGC and Quds Force terrorists removed from the sanctions list, including Qassem Suleimani, leader of Iran’s campaign against U.S. soldiers in Iraq, and Ahmad Vahidi, mastermind of the 1994 Jewish community center bombing in Argentina that killed 85 people

- The removal from the sanctions list of approximately 800 people and legal entities, including 23 out of 24 Iranian banks

- $100 to $150 billion to be unfrozen and given to Iran with no restrictions on its use to purchase arms and fund terrorism, including funding for Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Assad regime in Syria

Nuclear program:

- Iran keeps every one of its nuclear centrifuges

- Iran keeps its entire physical nuclear infrastructure, including the enrichment facilities at Fordow and Natanz and the nuclear reactor at Bushehr

- Iran permitted to continue research and development on all of its advanced centrifuge designs, reducing nuclear breakout time at the end of the deal to weeks

- Iran permitted to transition its allowed enrichment of uranium from older centrifuge designs to advanced designs

- No “anywhere, anytime” inspections. Iran can delay inspection of any site for at least 24 days

- No requirement that Iran fully disclose past nuclear weapons research and development (known as the PMD issue)

- The P5+1 western powers pledge to collaborate with Iran on nuclear technology

- Restrictions on enrichment – part of the “sunset” of the deal – are lifted after eight years

- If Iran is thought to have violated the deal, in order to “snap back” sanctions a dispute resolution process must be undertaken that can last two and a half months, after which the matter can be referred to the UN Security Council. At the UNSC, the re-imposition of sanctions can be vetoed by Russia, which stands to earn billions of dollars from arms sales to a non-sanctioned Iran.

Concessions unrelated to nuclear program:

- Ballistic missile embargo lifted after eight years


- Conventional arms embargo lifted after five years

- Iran keeps U.S. hostages


With leaders like this who needs enemies


Sanity, without this deal, everything could have headed towards war. Do you want that? Would you put yourself forward to fight in it? I mean, I know you ultra-righties are all muscular types who are gung-ho for some gung-ho physical action and stuff, whereas us lefties are all bit namby-pamby and limp-wristed ... but would you *really* be up for some blood-and-guts fighting out in the ME? Or if not you, your kids, or the kids of your friends and relatives?

What is your alternative to this deal? Please do say - the rest of us are dying to hear. Spell out how, in your view, it *should have gone*. Mmmh?

And helping Iran get nukes promotes peace, how?



It doesn't. That's why we need this deal.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 1:21:58 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/16/top-obama-official-admits-that-iran-will-likely-use-sanctions-money-to-fund-terror-video/

When we unfreeze the money to Iran (assuming it is done) then according to questions from CNN Wolf Blitzer the white house admits it could go to fund terrorists. Watch the video.


Of COURSE it will go to fund terrorists. Why on earth Iran stop doing that?

It seems to me that you may be a tad rash in this assumption. I presume you are referring to Iran's relationship with Hezbollah and the like. IF this is the case, then we might note that:
* Iran currently contributes funds and resources to Hezbollah under the sanctions regime. One may deduce from this that the availability of Iran's frozen assets and funds does not have any direct bearing on Iran's funding of Hezbollah;
* Whether Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation is questionable and is disputed by many. If Hezbollah is in fact a 'terrorist' group, then most of the governments in the region would also qualify as 'terrorist' entities. I note that the US is talking about upping its funding of its major proxy in the region Israel a country widely regarded in the region, and internationally as a terrorist State, as a sweetener to defuse Israeli opposition to the nuclear agreement;
* Iranian forces have proved to be the most effective and successful forces fighting IS in Iraq. IOW Iran makes substantial and effective contributions to the fight against IS terrorism; and
* Iran has pressing needs for its funds elsewhere, especially for its oil industry which needs extensive upgrading and construction of an oil refinery (currently Iran has no refinery and has to import refined petroleum products such as petrol), and for importing essential goods currently under embargo. Energy self-sufficiency is a long standing Iranian goal. It will take several years to bring its oil facilities and production up to optimal levels and require huge amounts of funds.

Of course the Iranians could decide to increase their funding of Hezbollah and similar groups throughout the region anyway. But I would suggest that this is not an urgent priority from Iran's perspective and Iran has far more pressing domestic projects to undertake with the now unfrozen funds and assets. Therefore it would be rash to automatically assume that Iran will use these funds to increase its funding of Hezbollah, Assad and the like.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/18/2015 1:34:14 AM >


_____________________________



(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 5:32:46 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And helping Iran get nukes promotes peace, how?

It doesn't. That's why we need this deal.

You might want to rephrase that for clarity.

K.


(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 6:50:02 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
If Iran wants nukes wouldn't it be easier to deliver them one at a time LOL

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 9:04:33 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Obama and Kerrys fantastic deal -

quote:

What we get:

- Iran reduces by about half the number of centrifuges actively enriching uranium

- Iran reduces its stockpile of enriched uranium from about five tons to 300 kilograms

- Iran repurposes its heavy water reactor in Arak so it does not produce plutonium

- An unspecified increase in inspections by the IAEA

What Iran gets:

Sanctions relief:

- Almost every type of U.S., EU, and UN sanctions lifted

- Repeal of six UN Security Council resolutions declaring the Iranian nuclear program illegal

- Top IRGC and Quds Force terrorists removed from the sanctions list, including Qassem Suleimani, leader of Iran’s campaign against U.S. soldiers in Iraq, and Ahmad Vahidi, mastermind of the 1994 Jewish community center bombing in Argentina that killed 85 people

- The removal from the sanctions list of approximately 800 people and legal entities, including 23 out of 24 Iranian banks

- $100 to $150 billion to be unfrozen and given to Iran with no restrictions on its use to purchase arms and fund terrorism, including funding for Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Assad regime in Syria

Nuclear program:

- Iran keeps every one of its nuclear centrifuges

- Iran keeps its entire physical nuclear infrastructure, including the enrichment facilities at Fordow and Natanz and the nuclear reactor at Bushehr

- Iran permitted to continue research and development on all of its advanced centrifuge designs, reducing nuclear breakout time at the end of the deal to weeks

- Iran permitted to transition its allowed enrichment of uranium from older centrifuge designs to advanced designs

- No “anywhere, anytime” inspections. Iran can delay inspection of any site for at least 24 days

- No requirement that Iran fully disclose past nuclear weapons research and development (known as the PMD issue)

- The P5+1 western powers pledge to collaborate with Iran on nuclear technology

- Restrictions on enrichment – part of the “sunset” of the deal – are lifted after eight years

- If Iran is thought to have violated the deal, in order to “snap back” sanctions a dispute resolution process must be undertaken that can last two and a half months, after which the matter can be referred to the UN Security Council. At the UNSC, the re-imposition of sanctions can be vetoed by Russia, which stands to earn billions of dollars from arms sales to a non-sanctioned Iran.

Concessions unrelated to nuclear program:

- Ballistic missile embargo lifted after eight years


- Conventional arms embargo lifted after five years

- Iran keeps U.S. hostages


With leaders like this who needs enemies


Sanity, without this deal, everything could have headed towards war. Do you want that? Would you put yourself forward to fight in it? I mean, I know you ultra-righties are all muscular types who are gung-ho for some gung-ho physical action and stuff, whereas us lefties are all bit namby-pamby and limp-wristed ... but would you *really* be up for some blood-and-guts fighting out in the ME? Or if not you, your kids, or the kids of your friends and relatives?

What is your alternative to this deal? Please do say - the rest of us are dying to hear. Spell out how, in your view, it *should have gone*. Mmmh?

And helping Iran get nukes promotes peace, how?



It doesn't. That's why we need this deal.

And that is what this deal does.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 9:13:45 AM   
markyugen


Posts: 129
Joined: 4/13/2013
Status: offline
Saudi Arabia funds terrorists, including the stinkers who plane-bombed NY on 9-11. You gonna stop buying gas?
http://www.iags.org/fuelingterror.html


< Message edited by markyugen -- 7/18/2015 9:14:11 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 9:42:25 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Saudi Arabia funds terrorists, including the stinkers who plane-bombed NY on 9-11. You gonna stop buying gas?
http://www.iags.org/fuelingterror.html


If you favor Iran with nukes it is a good deal, if you don't it isn't.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to markyugen)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 9:59:34 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
If we could see the actual text of the deal, it might make something clearer, rather than the hyperbolic 5th or 6th hand spin.

I seriously doubt we are telling them, here is a nuke.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 10:13:56 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Sanity, without this deal, everything could have headed towards war. Do you want that? Would you put yourself forward to fight in it? I mean, I know you ultra-righties are all muscular types who are gung-ho for some gung-ho physical action and stuff, whereas us lefties are all bit namby-pamby and limp-wristed ... but would you *really* be up for some blood-and-guts fighting out in the ME? Or if not you, your kids, or the kids of your friends and relatives?

What is your alternative to this deal? Please do say - the rest of us are dying to hear. Spell out how, in your view, it *should have gone*. Mmmh?

And helping Iran get nukes promotes peace, how?


There are larger considerations here. It may not just be about peace with Iran. If we attack or invade Iran to prevent them from getting nukes (which is the only way we could really do it), it could trigger a response from Russia or China that we may not be prepared to handle. By going to the bargaining table and making a deal, it shows them and the rest of the world that we're willing to reach a peaceful deal in good faith. So now, if Iran fucks up, then the court of world opinion would go against them and not us.

The fact is, the nuclear genie is out of the bottle already. For Pete's sake, there are high school kids who know how to build atomic bombs. The secret is out. Trying to keep other countries from getting nuclear technology won't be possible in the long run. We don't have to "help" Iran get nukes; they're figuring out how to do it by themselves. All we can really do is just delay that process, either through diplomatic means or through war - but I think everyone is hoping that it doesn't have to come to that.

But if they're hellbent on getting nukes, then they're gonna get nukes. So, we can either try to work with them and coexist with them in peace - or we can declare nuclear war on them - where the only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 12:17:49 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
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http://news.yahoo.com/iran-leader-vows-opposition-u-despite-nuclear-deal-051938755.html

Iran says US negotiators were dishonest.

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/18/2015 1:41:56 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Saudi Arabia funds terrorists, including the stinkers who plane-bombed NY on 9-11. You gonna stop buying gas?
http://www.iags.org/fuelingterror.html


If you favor Iran with nukes it is a good deal, if you don't it isn't.


Why do you keep saying that, Bama? It's utterly senseless, as far as I can see.

Reportedly, this deal involves the most rigorous inspection regime ever agreed to by any nation. It's not possible to build a nuclear weapon factory in someone's shed. The Iranians will have inspectors all over their country as a result of this deal. If they fuck up, they'll pay for it to the tune of billions that they can't afford.

On the other hand, without the deal, they could be building whatever they want. True, with the deal and all the money it involves, they could be financing Hezbollah. They could be doing all sorts of undesirable things. But they will *not* be building nukes, so far as I can see. I mean - seriously - how can this be a possibility to you? How could that possibly work, in your view of things? How do you reach the conclusion that you seem to have reached, assuming I've read it correctly?

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/20/2015 2:56:11 PM   
KenDckey


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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/un-iran-nuclear-deal_55acf590e4b065dfe89eab5d?

How is the US endorsement (I presume by direction of Obama) prior to endorsement by Congress (I presume Congress might revolt over this in a bilateral fashion) is unknown to me. I have looked and can't find out who delivered it.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/20/2015 3:55:47 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
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http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2568504

A good article on the deal options. He can recind previous executive orders, but he can't make a treaty alone.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/21/2015 8:16:14 AM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Kerry says Iran vow to defy U.S. is 'very disturbing'

Once again, conservatives were right all along

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/21/2015 8:23:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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There are no conservatives, and they who falsely claim to be have not been right about anything. Rhetoric and reality are two different things, ans you show us out here continuously.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program - 7/21/2015 9:18:30 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There are no conservatives, and they who falsely claim to be have not been right about anything. Rhetoric and reality are two different things, ans you show us out here continuously.

Strange how there are no conservatives and then you claim all kinds of things about conservatives. Make up our minds so we understand please

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 80
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