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RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 3:29:14 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
It looks like there are some other controlling documents that speak to fines and prison time.
quote:

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)
"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

This seems to have some stiffer penalties.


Now, I'm wondering if "Sanctuary Cities" are running afoul of the Federal law you cited. Can you imagine the shit mess they'd be in?!?


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(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 3:37:36 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
It is the case that immigration is an issue that raises temperatures on the Right in many countries - Australia the UK the US France Germany and Italy to name just a few.

You are right to describe it as a fascist leaning.

I don't know about 'fascist', but it really does stink of racism. Here in the UK our Tory government can't seem to get through another day without finding some new and exciting reason to blame all the nation's problems on immigrants. What never ceases to fascinate me is the assumption that the people who are trying to get into Britain are *so fundamentally different from "oneself"*.
Thus, whereas you or I would be horrified at the thought of dumping our friends and our families, the places and things that we know and make us feel safe - our language, even - and sodding off to a country where everything is strange and alien and where, furthermore, we know we're going to get cold treatment for the rest of our lives, even if we make it past immigration controls ... these immigrants are somehow presumed to be wired *fundamentally differently*. *They're* just the sorts who'll drop all their taken-for-granted roots on a whim, just to make themselves that bit richer - the greedy, selfish bastards.
It beggars belief, really. Would anybody here just fuck off abroad to some other country where everything is so fundamentally different? Myself, I'd only do that if I really, *really* felt that there was no other choice. I wouldn't expect anyone, in any country in the world, to be different. I cannot help but suspect that racism is indeed what makes some of us think other people in other countries would be different.


Regardless of how Cloudboy frames it, it's not about legal immigration by any means. The to do is about illegal immigrants. I'm not sure Cloudboy recognizes the difference, or if he's just being a jackwagon.

Most people on this board, and most politicians, support the idea of improving the legal immigration process. Conservatives also want to clamp down on illegal immigration. Every country has a right to determine, for themselves, the method by which borders are policed, and immigration is to take place. People who choose to not play by the rules that are set, should not get to jump in front of those who are doing it correctly. It's a slap in the face of those that follow the rules.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 4:27:20 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
I support Legal Immigration The more the merrier. Illegals tho should be mine field finders fighting ISIS

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 4:37:51 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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You are a lunatic.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 5:33:18 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
I support Legal Immigration The more the merrier. Illegals tho should be mine field finders fighting ISIS


I don't know that I agree with Cloudboy's analysis, but I certainly don't agree that illegals should be mine field finders. There are plenty of illegals whose only crime was illegal entry. While I don't think they should be granted legal status in the US, I don't think they should be abused, either.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 5:37:33 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
that about this guys...plan???
Iowa host talks up slavery for undocumented immigrants

As the race for the Republican presidential nomination continues, the right’s anti-immigration rhetoric is growing louder and more ferocious. It’s hard not to wonder, is there some kind of ceiling? Will we soon reach the limit on conservative extremism?

I can’t answer that with confidence, but I certainly hope that pro-slavery arguments represent the right-wing cliff.
[J]ust this week, Media Matters reported that well-known conservative radio host Jan Mickelson said that any undocumented immigrant that does not self-deport by a certain time-frame should become “an asset of the state.”

“Well, I think everybody would believe it sounds like slavery?” said one listener who called in to challenge Mickelson.

“Well, what’s wrong with slavery?” he responded.
This is, alas, quite real. Earlier this week, Mickelson, an influential conservative in Iowa, told his radio audience that he has a bold, new plan to deal with undocumented immigrants. Under the host’s vision, those who don’t deport themselves voluntarily after 60 days’ notice would automatically become “property of the state” and forced into “compelled labor.”

That labor would include – you guessed it – building a wall along the U.S./Mexican border.

“We will compel your labor,” Mickelson said. “You would belong to these United States. You show up without an invitation, you get to be an asset. You get to be a construction worker.”

When a listener raised the question of slavery, the radio host not only asked “Well, what’s wrong with slavery?” he soon after added, “You think I’m just pulling your leg. I am not.”

Yesterday, Mickelson talked to Media Matters and described his plan as “constitutionally defensible, legally defensible, morally defensible, biblically defensible and historically defensible.”

Despite the fact that Mickelson said on the air that he wasn’t kidding, when Media Matters asked if he expected GOP candidates to agree with his plan, the host replied, “[M]ost of them would understand my point isn’t serious, the point is philosophical.”

I’m not altogether sure what that means. Mickelson supports the philosophy of enslaving undocumented immigrants?

To be sure, there are all kinds of radio hosts who make all kinds of radical comments every day. Most are worth ignoring. But let’s not overlook this key detail from the Media Matters report:
Mickelson has a history of making racially-charged, anti-immigrant remarks but he also has a strong pull with conservative caucus voters in Iowa. His influence is so big that he recently hosted several 2016 GOP candidates on his show, including Carly Fiorina, Rick Santorum, and Ben Carson during their visits to the Iowa State Fair. After Mickelson defended his immigrant-slave plan, Gov. Scott Walker (R-WI) appeared on his show.
The host boasted on Twitter yesterday that he’s spoken to “everyone” in the Republican presidential field except Jeb Bush.

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 6:17:29 PM   
cloudboy


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You are not a lunatic. But you have to have a more realistic plan, even if you don't like it personally.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 6:56:12 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
I support Legal Immigration The more the merrier. Illegals tho should be mine field finders fighting ISIS


I don't know that I agree with Cloudboy's analysis, but I certainly don't agree that illegals should be mine field finders. There are plenty of illegals whose only crime was illegal entry. While I don't think they should be granted legal status in the US, I don't think they should be abused, either.


Is it abuse or a preventative step.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 7:41:15 PM   
Thegunnysez


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Joined: 8/17/2015
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quote:


Which do you support: literal translation of the law (the words used are what matter), or the spirit of the law (the intent of those that wrote the law)?


Don't you feel that both are necessary? We know that the slaves were illegal aliens. We know the framers of these three amendments were not unaware of the issues involved. Notice how native Americans are dealt with in these three amendments. The framers wanted to tailor the law to the need. That need being the enfranchisement of the offspring of illegal aliens while at the same time preventing the enfranchisement of native Americans.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 7:47:12 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
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quote:

Now, I'm wondering if "Sanctuary Cities" are running afoul of the Federal law you cited. Can you imagine the shit mess they'd be in?!?


Do you feel that would be more productive than the feds going after employers?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 7:49:37 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
Status: offline
quote:

People who choose to not play by the rules that are set, should not get to jump in front of those who are doing it correctly. It's a slap in the face of those that follow the rules.


How many Mexicans followed the rules last year?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 7:52:28 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
It is the case that immigration is an issue that raises temperatures on the Right in many countries - Australia the UK the US France Germany and Italy to name just a few.

You are right to describe it as a fascist leaning.

I don't know about 'fascist', but it really does stink of racism. Here in the UK our Tory government can't seem to get through another day without finding some new and exciting reason to blame all the nation's problems on immigrants. What never ceases to fascinate me is the assumption that the people who are trying to get into Britain are *so fundamentally different from "oneself"*.
Thus, whereas you or I would be horrified at the thought of dumping our friends and our families, the places and things that we know and make us feel safe - our language, even - and sodding off to a country where everything is strange and alien and where, furthermore, we know we're going to get cold treatment for the rest of our lives, even if we make it past immigration controls ... these immigrants are somehow presumed to be wired *fundamentally differently*. *They're* just the sorts who'll drop all their taken-for-granted roots on a whim, just to make themselves that bit richer - the greedy, selfish bastards.
It beggars belief, really. Would anybody here just fuck off abroad to some other country where everything is so fundamentally different? Myself, I'd only do that if I really, *really* felt that there was no other choice. I wouldn't expect anyone, in any country in the world, to be different. I cannot help but suspect that racism is indeed what makes some of us think other people in other countries would be different.


Regardless of how Cloudboy frames it, it's not about legal immigration by any means. The to do is about illegal immigrants. I'm not sure Cloudboy recognizes the difference, or if he's just being a jackwagon.

Most people on this board, and most politicians, support the idea of improving the legal immigration process. Conservatives also want to clamp down on illegal immigration. Every country has a right to determine, for themselves, the method by which borders are policed, and immigration is to take place. People who choose to not play by the rules that are set, should not get to jump in front of those who are doing it correctly. It's a slap in the face of those that follow the rules.



He makes his living from helping illegals stay in the country, pretending there is no difference between legals and illegals is part and parcel of his song and dance.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 8:06:19 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

He makes his living from helping illegals stay in the country, pretending there is no difference between legals and illegals is part and parcel of his song and dance.


Feathers his nest by helping the Democrats flood the job market with cheap, unskilled labor

Must really hate poor Americans

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 8:09:34 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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Regardless how you feel about the Donald, or immigration, I loveeeee to see the issue front and center, and being discussed from a variety of angles.

I don't want to see our country's immgration "issues" on the back burner again, any time soon.

Keep the discussions going, all over the country.

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/20/2015 8:11:00 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 8:27:02 PM   
Thegunnysez


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Joined: 8/17/2015
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Can you list all the misdemeanors that people commit that draw this much attention?

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 8:37:35 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

Can you list all the misdemeanors that people commit that draw this much attention?


I don't feel like playing the games they had us play at work today, and I sure am not playing them here.
You tell me.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/20/2015 8:49:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

He makes his living from helping illegals stay in the country, pretending there is no difference between legals and illegals is part and parcel of his song and dance.


Feathers his nest by helping the Democrats flood the job market with cheap, unskilled labor

Must really hate poor Americans

Only the white ones.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/21/2015 4:47:48 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

He makes his living from helping illegals stay in the country, pretending there is no difference between legals and illegals is part and parcel of his song and dance.


Feathers his nest by helping the Democrats flood the job market with cheap, unskilled labor

Must really hate poor Americans

Only the white ones.


Actually, no

He is like planned Parenthood, a regular wrecking ball against the black population

Black Unemployment Nearly Double National Rate, Twice As High As White Unemployment

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/21/2015 4:50:09 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

Can you list all the misdemeanors that people commit that draw this much attention?


I don't feel like playing the games they had us play at work today, and I sure am not playing them here.
You tell me.


Thats ThompsonX

Most people learn to ignore him, he is so stupid that its amazing that he remembers to breathe

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Trump's Immigration Plan - 8/21/2015 4:54:25 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline
All this coming from the backwater uninformed inbred. Man sanity you are sure funny to watch, you're like a child throwing a hissy fit every time I see a post. For a moron who loves to call others trolls and claim they're making ad Hominems against you, you seem to not grasp the concept of "practice what you preach". Oh well, on the bright side I love Neanderthals like yourself, you make the world so much more entertaining as you flounder around angry and confused, so thanks for that

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 120
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