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Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 12:55:02 AM   
Greta75


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Status: offline 		I am learning alot of interesting things in this election.

Thanks to Jeb and his fluent Spanish. You got these debates about IF he should be posting ads in Spanish, since US is an English speaking country. And then you got the Libs saying that English is neither the National Language nor Official language nor First Language in US.

I was like, "What????" It's not??? Why not?"

And then some how race issue gets into the mix again, due to English being a white man's language.

What do people here think of this?

And for me, this is quite confusing.

In our country, I guess it was easier. I mean, we have all the races that are non-English speakers. So to make sure all the different races have one unified language for effective communication with each other. English was made the official first language that everyone has to be able to speak.

It just make sense for communication purposes.

Why would Libs oppose to English being officially set as the official default language of US?

I also have mix thoughts about if Politicians should speak in any other language on top of their own main language in political speeches.

In my country, it's normal for let's say, a chinese person running for office will learn Malay, Tamil and even the dialects of the different indigenous Chinese folks and perform political speeches in them. Over here, it endears them to the different race of people that they were humble enough to master all the languages. It was also essential as there are literally a portion of the population of these races, which they feel is significant enough, even the Chinese, that don't understand English.

But I guess in the US, I assume everyone who grows up in the US must understand English. Only immigrants may have issues. So why bother speaking in any other languages? I feel it becomes favourtism. I think Jeb speeches in Spanish is badly received is because it's favourtism to Hispanic people. It's really not a situation where there is genuine language diversity in the US. I can't even think of, besides Spanish, which would be the third most spoken language over there? French?




< Message edited by Greta75 -- 9/23/2015 1:06:22 AM >
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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 12:59:38 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Why would Libs oppose to English being officially set as the official default language of US?

Because that would be raaacisssst. Actually though, while not the "Official Language," English is the "National Language," whatever that may be presumed to mean, and even that is attacked as "racist".

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/23/2015 1:15:13 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 1:24:06 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Because that would be raaacisssst. Actually though, while not the "Official Language," English is the "National Language," whatever that may be presumed to mean, and even that is attacked as "racist".

K.

Come to think of it, our national language is Malay, but only Malays speak that, who only makes up of 20% but they are the indigenous people of my country, so gotta give it to them.

US National Language should have been whatever the Native Americans speak.

But Official Language, I cannot believe it's not English! And there would actually be an outbreak of objections if it was ever the official language.

This also links to the whole multiculturalism debate. I am sure English can be the official first language, and other cultures can still practice their cultures and speak whatever other languages they speak within their own community. I was reading like one of the objections of officiating English is because it's anti-multiculturalism.

Some of these issues are amazing! That it's actually not black and white and easy.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 1:32:07 AM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Name one place in this country "English" is spoken! What we speak is a mixed up language of regional dialects under one blanket name, and even the Brits dont call what we speak English!

Of course brits drive on the wrong side of the road, drink warm beer, and gave us the Spice Girls and cricket.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 1:45:58 AM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		I sailed on Brit ships in the Merchant Marine there and we had blokes on board from every part of the British Isles, from the islands in the north, to St Michaels Mount in the South Western tip...........If there was a crew of 48, you could bet there were about 40 different dialects and every one of them speaking 'English'. you haven't lived until you have got into a conversation with a Shetlander, a Glaswegian, A Geordie, A Scouse, A Brummie, A Londoner and a Cornishman.............It would have had a translator weeping in his beer.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 1:58:34 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		Some years ago, when I was an exchange student in Japan, I applied for a job as an English teacher. The ad stated only native English speakers would be considered, so naturally I felt that I qualified on that score.

To my astonishment I was rejected as they wanted a native speaker of 'American English', as I, as a native speaker of 'English English' wasn't qualified. I had never encountered this distinction before. I found the distinction even more surprising as I have never come across an American whose English I couldn't understand, while I had (and still have) great difficulty in understanding some British people with strong regional accents such as Geordies or Scots.

But to Japanese ears, it was explained to me, they sound so different that they are considered different languages.


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/23/2015 2:00:00 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 3:50:35 AM   
Greta75


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Status: offline 		All the examples above, is simply English, but different forms of English.

It's like our Mandarin is different from China Mandarin in accent and the way we phrase things, but the basics are there and we still understand each other.

I am sure most of you understand each other and can speak in a manner where you can communicate sufficiently with each other in the English that you know, that common English that is sufficiently understandable. Communication is extremely important to bring people together! I really roll my eyes when I see some Libs even defend Hispanic rights to refuse to learn English while wanting to permanently live in America. That's just ridiculous! If I want to live in Japan, I'm gonna learn Japanese. If I live in Germany, I'm gonna learn German. It doesn't take away from my language or my culture, it just makes me multi-lingual.

While I have difficulty understanding some British accents, like for example Welsh People, really hard to understand, and they speak like English is their second language, I mean I always mistake them as Dutch people who's first language is Dutch and speaking English with a heavy dutch accent, but that's just my impression of their accent. But I've never heard an American accent that was difficult to understand, even the thickest southern kind.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 9/23/2015 3:51:26 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 3:54:45 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Some years ago, when I was an exchange student in Japan, I applied for a job as an English teacher. The ad stated only native English speakers would be considered, so naturally I felt that I qualified on that score.

I think it's also due to, places like Japan, China learns American English.

Whereas Hong Kong, Singapore, and Malaysia, learns British English. So I don't think it's the accent.

But I mean seriously, if I spell everything American, I would have failed all my English exams. But thanks to American spell checks on everything, all my Brit spelling keeps getting corrected to American.

Pronunciation is different too, so speak American and fail oral English. Japan must be the opposite way.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 9/23/2015 3:56:33 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 4:02:44 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
But to Japanese ears, it was explained to me, they sound so different that they are considered different languages.

Well, technically, they are different languages; very different indeed.

Americans don't speak English - they speak American.
The spellings are different and their turn of phrase is also sometimes different too.
They have different words for the same things than we do.
Even their pronunciation of common words and letters of the alphabet are frequently different.
Even their phonetic alphabet is different to the standard English and international ones.
And that's not counting any regional accents and differences.

Wiki states: As of October 2014, out of 50 states, 31 had established English as the official language, and Hawaii had established both English and Hawaiian as official.

In 2014, three more states, Pennsylvania, New York, and New Jersey, considered enacting English as their official state language.

us-english.org states: In 1996, U.S.ENGLISH was instrumental in passing H.R. 123, "The Bill Emerson English Language Empowerment Act of 1996." That bill, making English the official language of the U.S. government, passed in the House of Representatives with a bipartisan vote of 259-169. Unfortunately, the Senate did not act on the bill before the end of the session. Currently, U.S.ENGLISH is working with Rep. Steve King of Iowa and Sen. Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma to help pass Official English in the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate. H.R. 997 and S. 678, respectively, are pending in committee.

Personally, I think it's sufficiently different to be classified as a different language and I think it should be called "American" rather than English.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 4:13:47 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		Part of the explanation for all this is that English does have dialects and is in denial about it. No one ever calls them that but for all practical purposes (say) Geordie American or Scots English are not standard English but regional dialects of English.

Other major languages recognise that they have dialects. For example, French German Chinese and Italian all recognise (even celebrate) their regional dialects but for some reason English speakers decline to acknowledge that English has dialects. If we as English speakers acknowledged that English had dialects, this discussion would be superfluous.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/23/2015 4:15:23 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 4:15:43 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
...But I've never heard an American accent that was difficult to understand, even the thickest southern kind.

I found it very difficult to understand an awful lot of Americans when I lived there.

The way they pronounced words often had me confused.
For instance, I couldn't distinguish between 'cup' and 'cop' unless I heard the context.
And the thick southern drawl just made me cringe because I barely understood a word that was being said.

But there again, trying to understand a Scot or Geordie in full flow is just as bad


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 4:18:53 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Part of the explanation for all this is that English does have dialects and is in denial about it. No one ever calls them that but for all practical purposes (say) Geordie American or Scots English are not standard English but regional dialects of English.

Other major languages recognise that they have dialects. For example, French German Chinese and Italian all recognise (even celebrate) their regional dialects but for some reason English speakers decline to acknowledge that English has dialects. If we as English speakers acknowledged that English had dialects, this discussion would be superfluous.

We English certainly acknowledge that there are dialects and some of them are diabolical.
The problem is that other English-speaking people don't.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 4:55:13 AM   
DaddySatyr


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As someone who speaks several languages, I feel eminently qualified to weigh in, here.

Since I am American, my direct information about American (English) will be far more in depth. However, I've known my fair share of Brits, Aussies, and even Kiwis where I have a pretty good handle on the rest.

Technically speaking, if people would use English as it is supposed to be used, there would not be enough difference to separate English and "American". Even with all the factors figured in, we share far too much for the basic language(s) to be separate.

Where we get into issues is with things that have come about since our political separation. Americans say "elevator" and Brits say "lift". Why? When was the elevator invented? After 1176. Automobiles (which Americans generally refer to as "cars")? Yep. Post colony status.

Also, forgetting the original political rift. We're in different parts of the world. The cultures have - to some degree - grown apart.

Now, let's get into the "dialects" in America. Did you notice I put quotation marks around "dialects", there? If we separate English and "American", there is not enough difference in America to qualify the different accents as dialects. If we continue to umbrella everything under "English", there may be.

The Southern accent (or drawl) is a direct result of the remnants of English which collided with the French settlers (with a bit of Mexican Spanish thrown in). When counted under the "English" umbrella, it is enough of a departure to qualify as a dialect, but because it is a conglomerate of the different languages there probably isn't enough "difference" to be a subset.

Because the Southern drawl has had such an influence over a good portion of the American communication phenomenon, it is ensconced in that "language" and is, therefore, not a separate subset.

Fun fact: In 199(4?), Val Kilmer played Doc Holliday in the movie "Tombstone". There's a scene where Johnny Ringo asks if any of the Earp "gang" wants to play for blood. Holliday stands up and delivers a line that a lot of people still mis-hear;

Common mistake: DOC HOLLIDAY - "I'm your huckleberry"

The actual line is: "I'm your huckle bearer". In American, especially down south (Doc was from Georgia), "huckle" is a colloquialism for a cheap coffin. Doc is saying: "I'll carry your coffin"



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 9/23/2015 4:56:47 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 5:31:15 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

English is neither the National Language nor Official language nor First Language in US.

I was like, "What????" It's not??? Why not?"

Well, first, it is the National Language.

But as for first--it's a land that was populated by Native Americans with their own languages colonized by the Dutch, Spanish, and French. English never had a chance at being "first."

As some in the UK have observed, we don't speak English in America now either . . .

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 5:35:53 AM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		Except if you read the script, the line actually is "I'm your huckleberry". http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Tombstone.html

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 5:41:22 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Try listening to it and stop reading "scripts" transcribed by some 40-year-old sitting in front of a TV with a DVD player in his mom's basement. Just reading the very first voice-over and actually watching the movie will disabuse you of the thought that that script is accurate.



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 9/23/2015 5:43:09 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 6:46:23 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 6:55:53 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Canadian english has quite a few dialects. Plus we have french as bilingual language. that has different dialects too.
English english has about 50 dialects...I can recognize about 40 of them.
I can even tell some US dialects.

My home dialect is bastardized cockney with a strong hint of cheltenham schooled old gal!




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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 7:26:40 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		I grew up in the Phoenix area. We spoke cowboy which was a mix of English and Spanglish (english and mexican - a direvative of spanish and native tounges). And no I can't spell today. In school they tried to teach us "official" spanish (castillian). It was crazy. I know of at least 3 dialectts in Italy and I can only understand one. The other 2 are crazy. In Germany I had issues with the various dialects. The Army tried to teach us High German which no one spoke lol When I was in what is ertreia they spoke a mix of 5 languages. That was just the town I lived in. lol

I don't believe there is an official anything when it comes to language.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 9/23/2015 8:21:10 AM   
kdsub


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