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joether -> RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. (10/15/2015 11:27:11 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
No, you made an asinine remark to a situation where private gun ownership saved lives and property. A typical remark from someone who would clearly remove the rights of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their property in a crisis situation.
No, she made very intelligent remarks that you apparently are just not mature enough to handle.
When you behave like an asshat, more people are less trusting of you and your ability with a firearm. So go ahead, and attack people. You just undermine things that much more. You want firearms? Behave like an actual adult!
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
The simple fact is that you and your ilk would prefer that the criminal element have guns while the law abiding citizens are restricted from purchasing them.
This coming from someone whom shoots down gun law bills so that the actual lawbreakers do not have to jump through more hoops to get a gun. The idea behind better gun control laws is to make it MUCH harder on the criminal element to obtain and traffic firearms. At the same time, restoring trust in good, honest, Americans with firearms.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
This is clear from the fact that no matter how many fucking times the question "how are you gonna take the guns from criminals?" comes up, you people have not answered, presented a possible scenario or anything to accomplish this task.
Taking guns from criminals is a time process event. First, how does a legal firearm fall into a criminal's possession in the first place?
1 ) By legal purchase.
2 ) By shady purchase
3 ) Steals the gun
4 ) Trades for the gun
5 ) Buys the gun on the black market
6 ) Borrows from other family
7 ) Inherits (doesn't happen to often these days)
While we can place a tight level if restrictions on how firearms move from one person to another; there will always be the element of profit. That which turns good people into corrupted people. A gun store whom recently got shut down because 500 guns originated from them is an example of corrupted store owners.
There is not any one law that is the silver bullet solution either. It will take a number of laws working together. For instance, tying a tax that artificially raises a firearm's price does two things: Makes that firearm more valuable to be kept locked up, and raises the black market value for that gun. If a a firearm sold for $800, now its $4,000. Before you scuff at the number, think about how often people buy $800 dollar TV's verse $2,500 TVs. For most people, it will take a few months to collect that firearm. Leave an option open that a person could purchase the firearm without the tax increase due to potential threat(s).
Forcing background searches on every firearm purchase. Not just from stores but between individuals. This will help cut down on giving firearms to 'less than trustworthy people'. Also, if databases show individuals that have been committed due to mental/emotional illness; might cut down on mass shootings.
Require gun owners to carry insurance on their firearms. Just like with a car that can do considerable damage; insurance is required on a firearm. If its lost/stolen, your rates go up! There are guns that were once owned by someone and 'magically' they show up at a crime scene. The previous documented owner has an alibi; So how did that gun 'jump' from the gun safe to a crime scene?
The problem the criminals will find is attrition. At first these and other controls will not seemingly do anything. Over time, those guns become harder and hard to acquire. Meanwhile there are many gun owners with firearms. So long as we keep an eye on potential 'honest and law abiding people' whom might do something criminal or 'break' due to mental/emotional illness, we should experience less shootings. If people take precautions with non-users (i.e. kids), hopefully we cut down on the accidental shootings. Finally, if you think you have a mental/emotional problem; go get help. If you need to give those arms to the police to keep yourself safe from suicide....do it!
Realize, the question you prose is difficult on many levels. But it is answerable. Better that we (yes, all of us good Americans) figure this stuff out quickly. Since the population of 'ban 'em all' grows after each mass shoot every few weeks.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
It proves both ignorance of the situation, and it seems to imply that if you take the guns from law abiding citizens the criminals will politely give up theirs.
You assume 'gun control = remove guns from citizens'. Yeah, that method doesn't work. The above suggestions have a better chance of working. As I stated, we will not notice things immediately. Over time, will see a reduction in criminals with guns while the 'good guys' still have access to firearms.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
So, instead of answering direct questions about that aspect, you continue to attack the people who are responsible gun owners.
Funny, that when I ask questions, they do not get answered. Direct answers. No, I get childish answers. The sort that says to me "This person should not have a firearm because they can not behave like an adult". Right now, there is a considerable lack of trust in this nation. It grows every day. Not just on firearms, but on many other issues as well. Yet, I believe if we can tackle the issue with firearms, we might start restoring trust. If a person doesn't trust you with a firearm; they'll do what ever they can to remove that firearm from you. So what do you gain by giving them reason to distrust you in the first place?
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
And we are accused about being stubborn on the issue.
Belligerent, 'anger management issues', aggressive, paranoid, maybe even suffering schizophrenia. Even behaving like a child in the middle of a temper tantrum. Why do you think that's come about? Look at how you attacked, tweak. How does someone look at your post and say "This counter post came from a sane, intelligent, and reasonable person"? There are posts, like yours and worst on this and other threads. There are people that behave like you in the nation.
That you are being inconsiderate while demanding everyone be considerate of your views. You demand unconditional trust while distrusting everyone else. Trust, jlf1961, is a two way street. I would think someone on a BDSM site would understand how valuable mutual trust is with a partner. Particularly over SM! If you do not trust your fellow Americans, why should they trust you? That you have a right under the US Constitution? Look up the 18th and 21st Amendments. Think carefully.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
In closing, if you do not have a solution to the entire problem based in reality, might I suggest you go find rock to climb back under.
I think the majority of Americans have plenty of good ideas that could form into solutions. Unfortunately we have to many weak-willed conservatives in Congress that will obey the NRA's whims. I'm perfectly 'OK' in inviting you to help me and other Americans find better solutions. The current firearm laws are simply not handling the level and complexity of problems currently experienced. We all agree on preventing the criminal element from acquiring firearms. But distrust is also hurting those with firearms that would never use their arms to create more crime. So we have to rebuild trust. That is not easy!
How would you rebuild trust?
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