RE: Nobody wants to take your guns.

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Nobody wants to take your guns.

Page: << < prev 16 17 [18] 19 20 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/29/2015 5:12:27 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes... I have posted them before with an example in my town.

Butch

Sorry, posted what before?

His sources claim 43 children killed in firearms acciidents in his state alone, about 2/4 of the national total claimed by the CDC. Somebody is playing with the numbers. I don't think it is Butch.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ifmaz)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/29/2015 5:36:48 PM

ifmaz

Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Yes... I have posted them before with an example in my town.

Butch

Sorry, posted what before?

His sources claim 43 children killed in firearms acciidents in his state alone, about 2/4 of the national total claimed by the CDC. Somebody is playing with the numbers. I don't think it is Butch.

While tragic, not quite the pandemic I had expected.

The CDC says 591 accidental firearm-related deaths in 2011, of which 102 were under the age of 18, and roughly half under the age of 13 (PDF).

Firearm locks are around $3/ea (and usually distributed with new handguns) while a lockable container is around $20. The National Shooting Sports Foundation distributes free firearm locks. I see no mention of any free locks or cases on EveryTown and MomsDemandAction. If Mr. Bloomberg really cared about protecting lives, wouldn't some of his $50M be better spent purchasing freely distributable firearm locks and/or lockable cases?

< Message edited by ifmaz -- 10/29/2015 5:37:16 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/29/2015 6:15:24 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

No bama that is not what he asked...but he can search... I have posted info time and time again... not doing it anymore... waste of time

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/29/2015 8:38:30 PM

ifmaz

Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No bama that is not what he asked...but he can search... I have posted info time and time again... not doing it anymore... waste of time

Butch

I'm familiar with the frustration involved when posting facts only to have them ignored by those who believe differently.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/29/2015 8:50:36 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Yes... I have posted them before with an example in my town.

Butch

Sorry, posted what before?

His sources claim 43 children killed in firearms acciidents in his state alone, about 2/4 of the national total claimed by the CDC. Somebody is playing with the numbers. I don't think it is Butch.

While tragic, not quite the pandemic I had expected.

The CDC says 591 accidental firearm-related deaths in 2011, of which 102 were under the age of 18, and roughly half under the age of 13 (PDF).

Firearm locks are around $3/ea (and usually distributed with new handguns) while a lockable container is around $20. The National Shooting Sports Foundation distributes free firearm locks. I see no mention of any free locks or cases on EveryTown and MomsDemandAction. If Mr. Bloomberg really cared about protecting lives, wouldn't some of his $50M be better spent purchasing freely distributable firearm locks and/or lockable cases?

That would take the risk of fixing the problem without forcing the social change he wants. Change is important, not lives.
Your figures show even less child firearm related accidental deaths than I had thought.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ifmaz)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/29/2015 8:55:43 PM

ifmaz

Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
That would take the risk of fixing the problem without forcing the social change he wants. Change is important, not lives.
Your figures show even less child firearm related accidental deaths than I had thought.

I used the 'Contact Us' link on EveryTown.org to request a handgun lock. I'm genuinely interested in their response.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/29/2015 9:46:40 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
That would take the risk of fixing the problem without forcing the social change he wants. Change is important, not lives.
Your figures show even less child firearm related accidental deaths than I had thought.

I used the 'Contact Us' link on EveryTown.org to request a handgun lock. I'm genuinely interested in their response.

Let us know what happens.
Bass Pro Shop includes a trigger lock with every firearm purchase, even with my Taurus which has one built into it.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/29/2015 9:49:05 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ifmaz)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 12:20:54 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Here my friend is the crap I am talking about... now remember my town is only 30,000 now if you like extrapolate this nation wide... It will give you an idea of the number of stolen guns now killing and robbing people... Can you, like Bama, tell me you think these idiots in my town do not bare some responsibility for leaving their guns unsecured in unlocked vehicles... What would you say to the careless person whose gun was used to kill your child?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ifmaz)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 12:30:22 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Here my friend is the crap I am talking about... now remember my town is only 30,000 now if you like extrapolate this nation wide... It will give you an idea of the number of stolen guns now killing and robbing people... Can you, like Bama, tell me you think these idiots in my town do not bare some responsibility for leaving their guns unsecured in unlocked vehicles... What would you say to the careless person whose gun was used to kill your child?

Butch

I don't know about Bama but I know what I'd tell him:

You are a frigging, irresponsible, careless piece of stupidity. I hope you can sleep with yourself for being such a dumbass...but you're NOT the one who shot my kid. That all falls on the shoulders of the murdering bastardized who did.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 10/30/2015 12:34:16 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 12:43:20 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

once upon a time, there was a program for police. they got trigger locks, the bicycle type from an (I think it was ATF program) you could check with the local popo to see if they have any left, I got like 50 when I went there.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 12:43:45 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

That is true... but I sure as hell would like a law that saw to it that the ass never touched another gun the rest of his or her life...at the least. But if I had my way there would also be one hell of a fine... and have the money collected go towards firearm education.... money talks and is a great deterrent of future carelessness.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/30/2015 12:52:14 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 1:59:42 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That is true... but I sure as hell would like a law that saw to it that the ass never touched another gun the rest of his or her life...at the least. But if I had my way there would also be one hell of a fine... and have the money collected go towards firearm education.... money talks and is a great deterrent of future carelessness.

Butch

Really? How many drunk drivers doing time were deferred by their first offense? How many murderers doing time have that murder as their only strike on their rap sheet?

You do like so many, butch...you ostensibly recognize that the fault lies on the murderer but since the gun owner himself wasn't responsible, you're going to find a way to make him responsible.

Yet...if a young, slightly intoxicated woman walking alone through a rough section of town while wearing a dress up to her as and showing 75% of her boob's gets raped, who are you going to hold responsible? The rapist? Or the young lady dressing provocatively (leaving the gun on the seat) while alone and slightly intoxicated (door left unlocked, leaving the gun unprotected)?

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 10/30/2015 2:06:26 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 3:33:09 PM

ifmaz

Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Here my friend is the crap I am talking about... now remember my town is only 30,000 now if you like extrapolate this nation wide... It will give you an idea of the number of stolen guns now killing and robbing people... Can you, like Bama, tell me you think these idiots in my town do not bare some responsibility for leaving their guns unsecured in unlocked vehicles... What would you say to the careless person whose gun was used to kill your child?

Butch

The news article says 10 firearms were stolen from cars in your town, it does not say those firearms were used in any crimes.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 6:17:49 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

They were stolen and not recovered... where do you reasonably think they are now? I believe all guns must be registered and their owners known. When a gun is recovered from a crime scene, which they often are, the police will know where it came from. Now some firearms will be secured properly and still stolen...if this is the case they have no liability... but... If they were lost or stolen unsecured, as these were, then culpability can be assigned.... Especially if a child is injured or killed.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ifmaz)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 6:31:31 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

They were stolen and not recovered... where do you reasonably think they are now? I believe all guns must be registered and their owners known. When a gun is recovered from a crime scene, which they often are, the police will know where it came from. Now some firearms will be secured properly and still stolen...if this is the case they have no liability... but... If they were lost or stolen unsecured, as these were, then culpability can be assigned.... Especially if a child is injured or killed.

Butch

Yes with the person who stole them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 6:57:21 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Of course... this has nothing to do with the punishment of the criminal... I hope they rot in hell.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/30/2015 6:58:19 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 7:05:27 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Most pro and anti gun sites I take with a grain of salt... but THIS one I believe is on the up and up... just check out some of the statistics... crime may be going down but the carnage is increasing.

Just read the section on suicides...for instance.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/30/2015 7:06:53 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 7:11:59 PM

ifmaz

Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

They were stolen and not recovered... where do you reasonably think they are now? I believe all guns must be registered and their owners known. When a gun is recovered from a crime scene, which they often are, the police will know where it came from. Now some firearms will be secured properly and still stolen...if this is the case they have no liability... but... If they were lost or stolen unsecured, as these were, then culpability can be assigned.... Especially if a child is injured or killed.

Butch

I don't know where they are now, nor do you, and apparently nor does law enforcement. You are guessing the stolen firearms were used in crimes and making an impossibly huge leap in assuming the stolen firearms were used to injure a child. Your suggestion of making firearm owners "known" could make them a target for theft which could potentially increase the number of stolen firearms that may or may not be used in crimes. Additionally, a firearm owner has simply expressed his 2nd Amendment right and performed no illegal act. Should everyone expressing their rights be similarly "known"?

When a firearm is recovered at the scene of a crime, law enforcement could (potentially) figure out who last "registered" it per ATF-4473 forms. There would be a huge disincentive for people to report stolen firearms if they know they'll be investigated and potentially fined. As per one of your other posts, some police departments refuse to enforce laws for political reasons. It stands to reason there are other police departments who, to advance a political agenda, will go out of their way to identify a firearm owner and victim of theft as negligent, which only increases the disincentive of reporting a firearm stolen.

I'm not advocating firearm owners store their weapons insecurely, I'm questioning your panacea of holding a victim responsible for theft because it sounds an awful lot like blaming rape victims because of their attire. You have clearly not thought out the implications of your suggestion.

Here's a simple solution that doesn't blame victims, requires no additional laws, requires no government intervention, and is proactive about safety: free lockable handgun containers.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 7:25:31 PM

ifmaz

Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Most pro and anti gun sites I take with a grain of salt... but THIS one I believe is on the up and up... just check out some of the statistics... crime may be going down but the carnage is increasing.

Just read the section on suicides...for instance.

Butch

Regarding suicides, are you also anti-abortion under all circumstances? Did you support Mr. Bloomberg when he banned high capacity soda containers? Are you a smoker? Drinker? Do you believe one cannot do whatever they want with their own body, assuming it does not physically injure others?

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/30/2015 7:27:44 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

But they do find stolen guns every day... and when they do they should know the circumstances and the owner... and when appropriate assign culpability to the owner whose reasonably unsecured weapon was stolen and used in a crime or accident to a child.

As far as the unsecured guns stolen I know this... whoever has them has committed at least ONE crime... and it is reasonable to assume they will commit more...and it is reasonable to assume sometime in the future one of these guns will be recovered in a crime.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/30/2015 7:28:37 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ifmaz)

Page: << < prev 16 17 [18] 19 20 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Nobody wants to take your guns.

Page: << < prev 16 17 [18] 19 20 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.227