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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/21/2015 11:12:28 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

yup, any training with swords, knives, anything, you have a good chance.

quote:

My skill level is fine, but my mobility is not. If you know anything about knife or sword fighting you would know that mobility is very important.

Only if facing a person with training, a bums rush must be sidesteped, if you can't do that you will get cut, even if you kill them.
No, it is not at all important. not for any fighting. The movements can be very very small, just like you make with a gun.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/21/2015 11:36:17 AM

mnottertail

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your quote pairs are fucked up, but I get you. Same diff if they have a knife or a bat, and you a gun in the bums rush.

At the point they are a threat, you are in it.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/21/2015 11:43:00 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

your quote pairs are fucked up, but I get you. Same diff if they have a knife or a bat, and you a gun in the bums rush.

At the point they are a threat, you are in it.

And the gun works better than the knife, swords aren't even in the conversation, you can't carry one and odds are you won't be able to call a time out to get one. PS the gun can keep them from rushing you, the knife can't.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 83

RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/21/2015 12:06:55 PM

mnottertail

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Yeah, no.....they can come up behind you, they dont have to rush you, (and usually dont) and so on, now we are in scared and hallucinatory old man area)

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/21/2015 8:25:25 PM

Termyn8or

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We hallucinate criminals ? What the fuck are the jails full of, just pot smokers ? It is worse than I ever thought. Beam me up Scotty.

T^T

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/21/2015 8:49:50 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, no.....they can come up behind you, they dont have to rush you, (and usually dont) and so on, now we are in scared and hallucinatory old man area)

The myth of criminal invincability.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/21/2015 9:39:49 PM

jlf1961

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quote:

What proportion of all your days, since you were old enough to hold and shoot a weapon, have been involved in your killing people?

Objectively, with that stated purpose, the years spent in the military.

Subjectively, with that as a possibility, the years I spent working in law enforcement, specialized security ( nuclear facility security, site security overseas, Defense Contractor site security, sensitive cargo transport) figure another 15 years.

So, basically most of my adult life.

The Army gave me a very specialize skill set, not easily transferred to civilian life except in the fields I stated.

As for my statement that weapons technology outpaces most every other field, contrary to what some might think, the point is valid.

Latest advance

Of course, Music may want to look at a few facts in the fields he listed. Half of the diagnostic systems that are common place today, the MRI, CT Scan etc had their beginnings in military research. Most bio tech research is still covertly funded through various DARPA programs and it aint for a cure for cancer.

Aerospace? Come on, the driving force behind 90% of commercial aviation has come from advances in military aircraft first.

The vaunted GPS system was originally developed for guiding missiles, and when it was finally released into the civilian market, there was a built in error of over a half mile (led to some interesting navigation errors with ships and yacht owners.)

Furthermore, on the GPS system, officially it is accurate to within a few meters. Realistically, it is still off by more than the radius of immediate destruction by a nominal warhead, i.e it puts your position well outside the area of total destruction.

Cosmetic surgery was a direct result of weapons, the medical profession had to figure out how to rebuild individuals after being hit with some of the more "humane" weapons.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 6:59:57 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, no.....they can come up behind you, they dont have to rush you, (and usually dont) and so on, now we are in scared and hallucinatory old man area)

The myth of criminal invincability.

The myth of old geezers with a gun invinciblity.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 8:27:58 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, no.....they can come up behind you, they dont have to rush you, (and usually dont) and so on, now we are in scared and hallucinatory old man area)

The myth of criminal invincability.

The myth of old geezers with a gun invinciblity.

Not invicibility, just a much better chance.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 8:30:26 AM

mnottertail

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than your own knife? How do you know, is this like the million people saved by guns because it didnt happen, voter fraud must be widespread because we cant prove it?

Maybe clean up where you hang out. I deal with rough folks all day, havent needed to carry.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 8:47:46 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

than your own knife? How do you know, is this like the million people saved by guns because it didnt happen, voter fraud must be widespread because we cant prove it?

Maybe clean up where you hang out. I deal with rough folks all day, havent needed to carry.

Come on now, you are twisting what I said. Everyone who has studied this has shown a astronomical number of crimes stopped with guns. Even Blumberg admitted to a quarter million. CDC resently confirmed the Kleck study that shows the number at 2 million. Still that does not, and I have never claimed that everyone of those saved a life. The fact that you don't want to believe something never makes it true. And yes it would be great if they cleaned up my area. Pizza Hut won't deliver to anyone in my area but me. Why? Because I am the only one to promise them that when they arrive I will be on my poarch with a gun to protect them. You must deal with tough charactors since you argue that resistance is futile and are willing to just turn society over to the trash.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 8:49:34 AM

ReMakeYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Not invicibility, just a much better chance.

Google is giving me all sorts of numbers as to when a gun is less effective than a knife, but they all agree that at short range you'll be hard pressed to bring the gun to bear in time. Especially if the attacker has surprise (it's a stupid assailant who doesn't), and you're using reasonable precautions like keeping the safety on.

Someone who wants a gun because they're a collector/hobbyist is at least someone I can understand. I'm curious how your weapon would be a factor against someone who already has the drop on you.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 8:55:01 AM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

We hallucinate criminals ? What the fuck are the jails full of, just pot smokers ? It is worse than I ever thought. Beam me up Scotty.

A quick google might help you out. The last I heard about 70% of the people in jail are in jail on drug related offenses. The fbi claims that violent crime is down.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 9:26:09 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ReMakeYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Not invicibility, just a much better chance.

Google is giving me all sorts of numbers as to when a gun is less effective than a knife, but they all agree that at short range you'll be hard pressed to bring the gun to bear in time. Especially if the attacker has surprise (it's a stupid assailant who doesn't), and you're using reasonable precautions like keeping the safety on.

Someone who wants a gun because they're a collector/hobbyist is at least someone I can understand. I'm curious how your weapon would be a factor against someone who already has the drop on you.

Have you ever heard of situational awareness? When I am on my property I have at least a 20 yard zone around me. Kind of hard to sneak up on me like that now isn't it. When off my property I maintain an awareness of what is going on around me. Looks like we have another proponent of the invicible criminal. Don't resist, just hope that out of the goodness of their hearts they don't hurt you. After all they are basically good people who are down on their luck.
You don't know that a lot of automatics, and for all practical purposes no revolvers have safeties.
BTW, I also carry a knife.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 9:49:47 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

than your own knife? How do you know, is this like the million people saved by guns because it didnt happen, voter fraud must be widespread because we cant prove it?

Maybe clean up where you hang out. I deal with rough folks all day, havent needed to carry.

Come on now, you are twisting what I said. Everyone who has studied this has shown a astronomical number of crimes stopped with guns. Even Blumberg admitted to a quarter million. CDC resently confirmed the Kleck study that shows the number at 2 million. Still that does not, and I have never claimed that everyone of those saved a life. The fact that you don't want to believe something never makes it true. And yes it would be great if they cleaned up my area. Pizza Hut won't deliver to anyone in my area but me. Why? Because I am the only one to promise them that when they arrive I will be on my poarch with a gun to protect them. You must deal with tough charactors since you argue that resistance is futile and are willing to just turn society over to the trash.

Yeah, studied......no. You cannot study what does not exist and come to a reasonable description of its existence.

I am glad that you are going to be shooting instead of killing them with your spelling.

They have a chance in the first way.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 11:29:34 AM

ReMakeYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You don't know that a lot of automatics, and for all practical purposes no revolvers have safeties.

quote:

When off my property I maintain an awareness of what is going on around me. Looks like we have another proponent of the invicible criminal. Don't resist, just hope that out of the goodness of their hearts they don't hurt you.

Not invincible. Just that drawing before somebody commits a crime makes you the criminal, and drawing after they've committed the crime means they've gotten the drop on you.

Which is really my point here. A gun allows you to threaten deadly force in an unknown situation. Once the situation is clearly criminal, telegraphing your intention by reaching for a weapon does not make you safer. For your average person, the defensive benefit of carrying a gun is approximately zero.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 12:18:28 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ReMakeYou

Google is giving me all sorts of numbers as to when a gun is less effective than a knife, but they all agree that at short range you'll be hard pressed to bring the gun to bear in time.

Well, there are defenses that will give you the advantage even inside the 21 foot rule. You can't just stand still, and you're best if you don't stay standing at all. The harder the attacker lunges, the harder it is for him to correct if you move. Inertia rules. And if he has to redirect his attack both laterally and vertically, he's going to have lead in him before he can follow through. If you're interested, search on YouTube instead of Google.

K.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 12:29:51 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ReMakeYou
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You don't know that a lot of automatics, and for all practical purposes no revolvers have safeties.

You're right. I assumed that somebody carrying a dangerous object on their person would want to minimize the risk of accidental discharge. How silly of me.

Not having a manual safety does not automatically equate to an increased risk of accidental discharge. They still won't fire unless you pull the trigger. And in the context of your comment about the additional time required to release a safety, I can tell you that there isn't any with the manual safety on a 1911. It's just a thumb-flick as your hand wraps around the grip.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/22/2015 12:42:42 PM >

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 12:32:33 PM

BamaD

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You're right. I assumed that somebody carrying a dangerous object on their person would want to minimize the risk of accidental discharge. How silly of me.

For that matter you could just keep the safety off if your gun has one. But again, the risks sound like they outweigh the benefits there.

You don't understand firearms.
You can't use a safety if you don't use one.
When it is on your person and you aren't playing with it a firearm is safe without a safety.
The only time I was succsefully mugged it was because when the threat presented itself I had the safety on and it would have taken extra time to take it off.
While safeties are fine under certain circumstances, they are a tactical handicap.
There are always signs before hand. Down here we have what is known as the Castle doctrine. That means that if they are on my property and acting in a suspicious or threatening manor I can take action to make them aware of the cost of messing with me. That is not a crime here.
Finally if the value of having a gun is zero, how do over a million people a year stop crimes with guns?

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Nobody wants to take your guns. - 10/22/2015 12:57:34 PM

mnottertail

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You can't use a safety if you don't use one.

Uhhhhhhhhhh, my OCD is killing me, Bama, please fix that, cuz I guarentee you that is not what you mean.

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