RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man to have sex with women

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 12/29/2015 8:33:57 AM

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I can kind of get this. As the law stands now, a person can consent to having sex with another person, though not consent to the use of a foreign object. Just like a person can consent to oral sex, but not penetration with a vibrator.

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/1/2016 4:30:10 PM

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you said

Should they jail every man who lies to a woman to have sex?

Well the issue is should a women be able to pretend to be a man while fucking a women..... The umm victim (?) expected a flesh and blood penis not someone using a dildo on her....

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/1/2016 4:40:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I can kind of get this. As the law stands now, a person can consent to having sex with another person, though not consent to the use of a foreign object. Just like a person can consent to oral sex, but not penetration with a vibrator.

I'd be down with that, but in this case the "victim" didn't say "I don't want to be penetrated with a dildo", I mean to jump into bed repeatedly with a person you only know from FB, to not notice the person is another gender (even after repeatedly having sex), that's just a bit nuts and damned irresponsible, it's like complaining that somebody robbed your house when you left all the doors and windows wide open.

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(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 2:42:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I'd be down with that, but in this case the "victim" didn't say "I don't want to be penetrated with a dildo", I mean to jump into bed repeatedly with a person you only know from FB, to not notice the person is another gender (even after repeatedly having sex), that's just a bit nuts and damned irresponsible, it's like complaining that somebody robbed your house when you left all the doors and windows wide open.

I think I'm kind of weird about this because, for most interactions, I'm leaning towards affirmative consent with the majority of interactions. It's not always the fact that the person didn't say no. It can also be the fact that the person didn't say yes.

If you left your windows and doors unlocked, and someone steals from you, the truth is that you were still robbed. You may not have done everything you could to prevent it but it doesn't change the fact that a crime was committed. Your property was still taken. The law doesn't say that your door was unlocked so the crime because null and void. It's still theft, no matter what the condition of your locks.

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 5:07:32 AM

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But my insurance would not cover the damage because they would rightly tell me that I made it possible for a criminal to walk in and I neglected due diligence...

In the US if my pocket is picked and my wallet stolen (yep, happened) the law considers it as lost until I saw the person actively taking it.

Can you imagine people having sex if they have to check with the partner every time if that move is OK? Like "May I touch you there?"

What if it was a guy who lost his penis and used a prosthetic dick but was too embarrassed to tell her about it?

I'm all for that a person has the right to stop any sexual act whenever, but ages after doing it repeatedly and without force to decide that it wasn't what you wanted, that stinks a bit.

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 10:47:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
But my insurance would not cover the damage because they would rightly tell me that I made it possible for a criminal to walk in and I neglected due diligence...

In the US if my pocket is picked and my wallet stolen (yep, happened) the law considers it as lost until I saw the person actively taking it.

Things must be different in the UK. It doesn't work like that here. On this side of the pond, there is a difference between what is known as breaking and entering (doors locked) and unwarranted entry (door unlocked but no permission to enter the home). Neither are big charges on a criminal scale. However, any crime committed once entry occurs isn't swayed by how the perpetrator got in.

Your credit card is different. (Don't feel bad. I'm in the same club.) Your financial institution considers it lost until there is an unauthorized transaction. You don't have to see it. You just have to verify in some way that it wasn't you who incurred the charge. When I was Chairman of AIRS, the group debit card was lifted from my wallet. I didn't know it (we only used that card for expenses at events) and went to work like normal. Three days passed until I realized it was missing. In the span of one work rotation, all of the money was gone. The bank was awesome about it. Put back every dime. All the group treasurer and I had to do was go in and sign some papers.

quote:

Can you imagine people having sex if they have to check with the partner every time if that move is OK? Like "May I touch you there?"

I'm not sure I know the better alternative, rather than at least some pre-play negotiations. The concept of consent has to come into this thing, somewhere.

quote:

What if it was a guy who lost his penis and used a prosthetic dick but was too embarrassed to tell her about it?

Compassion won't sway me on this. If he can't tell his partner, maybe he's not ready for that level of intimacy. Doesn't his partner deserve to know?

quote:

I'm all for that a person has the right to stop any sexual act whenever, but ages after doing it repeatedly and without force to decide that it wasn't what you wanted, that stinks a bit.

Isn't a part of what we do here about Informed Consent? How can a partner make a decision without the facts?

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 11:09:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
If you left your windows and doors unlocked, and someone steals from you, the truth is that you were still robbed. You may not have done everything you could to prevent it but it doesn't change the fact that a crime was committed. Your property was still taken. The law doesn't say that your door was unlocked so the crime because null and void. It's still theft, no matter what the condition of your locks.

As LC said, LP, over here, if you didn't take all possible precautions to avoid said intrusion, it just doesn't count as a crime and in most cases, you couldn't claim on any insurance you may have had.
Effectively, our law states that by not taking the proper precautions you are 'inviting' the perpetrator into your home to commit such evil deeds, almost with your permission.
yeah, I know, it's completely nuts and totally insane.

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 11:20:53 AM

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It gets weirder, if somebody breaks into our house and gets bitten by the dogs, technically he can sue us, however the cops said they don't know a single case where there was a real punishment for the dog owners or a dog has been put down for that, as one of them put it "You don't have a dog and bite a burglar yourself..."

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 11:39:51 AM

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Oh my gosh. Over there, do folks also blame a gal for walking down a dark alley rather than a lighted street?

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 11:48:38 AM

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I agree with the leaving the doors open though, you did your part to make it possible and basically "invited" the crime, isn't it the same in the US if you leave your car with the keys in and somebody takes it? I think the insurance also goes "That was damned stupid, don't expect us to pay for stupidity..."

I recall when my wallet was nicked (it was in a zipped compartment of my handbag, no way it could have fallen out) despite there being unauthorized transactions with my card, it still counted as "lost", because technically I could have dropped it and somebody found it and just used it...

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Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 12:18:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Oh my gosh. Over there, do folks also blame a gal for walking down a dark alley rather than a lighted street?

If there was a lighted street as an alternative but chose to use the dark alley instead... yes!

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 3:04:58 PM

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I think there are way too many f***ed up things on both sides of this case for it to be used as an example to argue legal consequences. I would like to think that cases like this are rare enough that legally arguing it would be difficult simply because these particular circumstances don't occur enough to serve as basis for legal precedence.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/2/2016 11:10:15 PM

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I was sitting here thinking this afternoon, trying to remember the last time I actually slept with somebody that I hadn't seen naked. It seems terribly foreign to me but I suppose some folks do that?

Strangest thing. My female off-spring, in her still ToS violation years, had this thing for watching Jerry Springer. I'd have to look it up but IIRC, very same thing.

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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/3/2016 8:02:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I was sitting here thinking this afternoon, trying to remember the last time I actually slept with somebody that I hadn't seen naked. It seems terribly foreign to me but I suppose some folks do that?

Strangest thing. My female off-spring, in her still ToS violation years, had this thing for watching Jerry Springer. I'd have to look it up but IIRC, very same thing.

Yeah, I am the same way. It seems a bit foreign to me to not see the family jewels, especially after what, ten encounters? Then again, I hope I am smart enough to not ever let myself be deceived in this manner.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 1/3/2016 8:43:38 PM

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We had a very similar situation, in my neighborhood (NYC), when I was a teen-ager. A young lady was hanging around outside a (female) friend's house. We didn't recognize her from the neighborhood so a few of us went over to ask her if we could be of assistance.

She told us she was trying to get in touch with her boyfriend. Right off, that didn't ring true. The house in question only had two daughters, living there. We asked her if she had the right house, etc.

It turned out, the younger daughter (our age 16 or so), had been (at least to some degree), living as a man.

This was 1980 and things were a bit different then, but NYC had a large gay population and had more resources for the community than some of the more rural areas.

As I said, the young lady in question was a friend of ours. I decided to see if I could help. The long-and-short of it is: she denied everything to me.

Some years later, I heard that she had met her end because one of the young ladies that she'd fooled decided that it warranted death.

This is a difficult thought process for me, but I think I come down on the side of: this is rape. I do feel bad for people that are struggling with gender identity, but their struggles don't make it okay for them to abuse others.

If my gut reaction is right, my feeling is that just like when a man rapes a woman, death is the correct sentence.

Michael

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 2/12/2016 2:55:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

While I can't see how she got more time than some pedophiles, I do see how this is a sexual assault.

She consented to sex with a guy. She did not consent to be fucked by a woman with a strap-on.

^This.

If I consent to have any sort of dialogue or intercourse with anyone, one of the first presumptions I will make is that they are being honest about their gender and that I am therefore having intercourse and/or a dialogue with a person of the stated gender. I don't see that this is materially different on an ethical level than lying about having an STD or one's medical background before engaging in sex or a BDSM scene. While the law may view it as a "lesser" offense, a consent violation is a consent violation is a consent violation all day long. If I find out that the woman I'm sleeping with was biologically male at birth after the fact, my right to informed consent before sleeping with that person has been abrogated. The same applies here. Seems pretty clear-cut to me.

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RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 2/29/2016 6:13:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I would say she consented to have sex with a PERSON, the same person who fucked her with her consent, several times. If a guy wouldn't get it up and would use a dildo, it wouldn't be assault.

If he used a dildo without her consent, that would also be assault.

I can see the five page checklists being dispensed at gas stations world wide:

Fingers: (yes) (no)
Tongue: (yes) (no)
Condom: (yes) (no)

Your honor, I agreed he could use a condom, but that sick bastard used a ribbed condom, not for my pleasure and if you read chapter 7 Ss 234, you can see the ribbed condom was a clear violation of my consent.

Hmmm... you have a valid point, 10 years, no good behavior... oh, and take a sexual consent check list with you to prison... you'll need it.

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(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 2/29/2016 6:22:41 AM

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I think we can all agree that being conned by KD Lang is much worse than a childhood molesting by a priest. At least the priest isn't still wearing that smug look of self-satisfaction that assumes they're above the law.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 2/29/2016 6:50:14 AM

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And KD isn't just smug. She has the sort of face, that they say in the classics, you just want to punch over and over again.

I'm sure she means well though, and isn't just self-serving junk :)

(in reply to AussieSub75)

RE: Gayle Newland is jailed for pretending to be a man ... - 2/29/2016 6:52:38 AM

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FR

This woman should definitely be punished. Women who are bisexual here may be like, "What's the big deal!"

But super homophobic folks like me who will never even allow a woman to hug me, or touch me, to me, it's like if I was a lesbian and a man disguise as a female to touch me, and I would never ever touch a male. Finding out that the person is the gender I am highly homophobic towards, will be completely like violating me! I would feel absolutely disgusted and traumatised.

I recognize my homophobia. I am friends with lesbian women as long as they stay platonic with me. I cannot stand a woman touching me sexually, I would feel 101% violated.

In my country, when a woman touches another woman without that woman's approval, she'd be jailed for molesting another woman too. Same gender doesn't mean the crime is less severe.

Let me give another scenerio and such real life cases have happened before. Man in the dark pretending to be the woman's husband and fucks her! Same shit! She thought she was fucking her husband! So she consented. But he turn out to be someone else! It's the same kind of violation!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/29/2016 6:58:17 AM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)

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