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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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I bet not one single liberal would actually be happy to move to a Muslim majority country and live among them. It's not seen as an ideal world, there is no justice and fairness in their system. Yet, they are so short sighted to not see the implications if Muslim population was allowed to become a majority in their own country.

Muslims won't ever become a majority in either the UK or the USA, Greta. But even if their numbers increased hugely, the overwhelming likelihood is that they'd be just like most other British or American Muslims: they'd realise what side their bread's buttered, just hunker down and get on with their lives, and not bother anyone. *That* is how Muslims have generally acted in countries that are predominately non-Muslim.

If you possibly can turn your head away from the headlines of the simplest newspapers, just for an instant - do you think you could answer for yourself the question: If Islam is really so bad, why exactly do the majority of Muslims living in mainly non-Muslim countries live their entire lives without actually hurting anyone at all?

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

But the demographic reality is that muslims will become a majority in most nations in europe by 2050 with the current trends - france and germany much much sooner.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67
How does one determine who is safe and not safe to enter our borders? I am absolutely sure there are wonderful Muslims who do not deserve to be clothed in the same cloth as their radical brothers, but we have our own country to protect because the fact is we are very hated by many.

All you have to do is work out what such terrorists as Timothy McVeigh have in common with Muslim terrorists who come in from outside of the USA. McVeigh wasn't Muslim, but he killed 168 people. Still, the question is easily answered. No brain-work required.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Muslims won't ever become a majority in either the UK or the USA, Greta.

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By themselves, not counting muslims highest in the world birth rates, means that by 2030 Germany would be 40% muslim

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Muslims won't ever become a majority in either the UK or the USA, Greta.

It totally will. We have Muslim families here with like 27 kids. Their women can be 20 yrs old and already mom of 3 and also possibly have gone through 3 different husbands, as Muslims divorce is different from secular divorce, they just need to utter "I divorce you" three times infront of 2 witnesses. And their daughters and grand daughters, they are very all very pro-reproduction. They are breeding like rabbits.
Birth rate is reducing among the white population. Muslims religion does not allow them to use contraceptive of any kind.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The numbers of Muslims in other European nations are of a similar or lesser level to those in Germany. Countries such as (for example) Spain, Poland, the Scandinavian countries or Ireland have tiny Muslim minorities. So, the probability "that muslims will become a majority in most nations in europe by 2050 with the current trends", as you insist, is even more far fetched. So unlikely that it borders on paranoid delusion and xenophobia.

So can I suggest that you avail yourself of some reliable information sources so that your views might have some level of factual relationship, however tenuous it may be, with the real world that the rest of us inhabit? The upside of properly informing yourself of the facts prior to forming your opinions is that it will force the rest of us to take your views seriously. We would no longer be able to dismiss your views contemptuously as the fact-free ravings of an uninformed looney Right ideologue.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

[image]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbOixIdUMAAD__A.jpg[/image]

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Speaking at a meeting in London, Anjem Choudary, right-hand man of exiled preacher Omar Bakri Mohammed, said: "It may be by pure conversion that Britain will become an Islamic state. We may never need to conquer it from the outside."

He added: "We do not integrate into Christianity. We will ensure that one day you will integrate into the Sharia Islamic law."...

Speaking via video link the exiled cleric said Osama bin Laden had taught the Americans a ‘lesson’ seven years ago, but the ‘crusaders’ had not learned.

He said the next ‘9/11 will take place in Britain, the next 7/7 [London bombings] could take place locally’.

Mr Choudary then referred to Bakri’s notorious aim of flying the ‘flag of Sharia’ over Downing Street, claiming that this would happen by 2020 as 500 people a day were converting to Islam and laughing that Muslim families in places like Whitechapel and Bethnal Green in east London were having ‘10 or 12 children each’.

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Muslim population growth refers to the topic of population growth of the global Muslim community. In 2006, countries with a Muslim majority had an average population growth rate of 1.8% per year (when weighted by percentage Muslim and population size).[1] This compares with a world population growth rate of 1.1% per year.[2] As of 2011, it is predicted that the world's Muslim population will grow twice as fast as non-Muslims over the next 20 years. By 2030, Muslims will make up more than a quarter of the global population. If current trends continue, it is predicted by the year 2100 that about 1% more of the world's population will be Muslim (35%) than Christian (34%).[3]...Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman—well above replacement level (2.1)...

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I feel sorry for the squirrel:)

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

"'Have more babies and Muslims can take over the UK'"

quote:

Speaking at a meeting in London, Anjem Choudary, right-hand man of exiled preacher Omar Bakri Mohammed, said: "It may be by pure conversion that Britain will become an Islamic state. We may never need to conquer it from the outside."

He added: "We do not integrate into Christianity. We will ensure that one day you will integrate into the Sharia Islamic law."...

Speaking via video link the exiled cleric said Osama bin Laden had taught the Americans a ‘lesson’ seven years ago, but the ‘crusaders’ had not learned.

He said the next ‘9/11 will take place in Britain, the next 7/7 [London bombings] could take place locally’.

Mr Choudary then referred to Bakri’s notorious aim of flying the ‘flag of Sharia’ over Downing Street, claiming that this would happen by 2020 as 500 people a day were converting to Islam and laughing that Muslim families in places like Whitechapel and Bethnal Green in east London were having ‘10 or 12 children each’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054909/Have-babies-Muslims-UK-hate-fanatic-says-warning-comes-9-11-UK.html

yeah yeah I get it---"fear mongering islamophobic alarmism from a disreputable news source."

address the content instead.

or this:

quote:

Muslim population growth refers to the topic of population growth of the global Muslim community. In 2006, countries with a Muslim majority had an average population growth rate of 1.8% per year (when weighted by percentage Muslim and population size).[1] This compares with a world population growth rate of 1.1% per year.[2] As of 2011, it is predicted that the world's Muslim population will grow twice as fast as non-Muslims over the next 20 years. By 2030, Muslims will make up more than a quarter of the global population. If current trends continue, it is predicted by the year 2100 that about 1% more of the world's population will be Muslim (35%) than Christian (34%).[3]...Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman—well above replacement level (2.1)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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By themselves, not counting muslims highest in the world birth rates, means that by 2030 Germany would be 40% muslim

Jesus, Phydeaux - that simply isn't going to happen. It's alarmist nonsense. Actually, it reminds me of the statistic I read once that had it that, on the then (year 2000, I think) trajectories of percentage increase of people in prison, by 2050 everybody in Britain will be in prison. (Yes, yes ... I know for some loons here we all already *are* in a virtual 'prison of socialist ideas')

The greatest limiters of birth rates are indigenous cultures and their levels of wealth, education systems, etc, etc, etc. Germany is a wealthy country and its culture is not one of high birth rates. People tend to get absorbed into the country that they're entering, or are born into as second, third, etc gen descendants of immigrants.

Why are all these discussions so utterly devoid of any sociological understanding? There is no simple cause and effect relationship between the nature of Islam and how any given society operates/fails to operate.

Islam is not going to take over the West; we're not going to have Sharia law imposed on us all; Texas will never become an IS caliphate. You need a new crystal ball.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

"'Have more babies and Muslims can take over the UK'"

quote:

Speaking at a meeting in London, Anjem Choudary, right-hand man of exiled preacher Omar Bakri Mohammed, said: "It may be by pure conversion that Britain will become an Islamic state. We may never need to conquer it from the outside."

He added: "We do not integrate into Christianity. We will ensure that one day you will integrate into the Sharia Islamic law."...

Speaking via video link the exiled cleric said Osama bin Laden had taught the Americans a ‘lesson’ seven years ago, but the ‘crusaders’ had not learned.

He said the next ‘9/11 will take place in Britain, the next 7/7 [London bombings] could take place locally’.

Mr Choudary then referred to Bakri’s notorious aim of flying the ‘flag of Sharia’ over Downing Street, claiming that this would happen by 2020 as 500 people a day were converting to Islam and laughing that Muslim families in places like Whitechapel and Bethnal Green in east London were having ‘10 or 12 children each’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054909/Have-babies-Muslims-UK-hate-fanatic-says-warning-comes-9-11-UK.html

yeah yeah I get it---"fear mongering islamophobic alarmism from a disreputable news source."

address the content instead.

or this:

quote:

Muslim population growth refers to the topic of population growth of the global Muslim community. In 2006, countries with a Muslim majority had an average population growth rate of 1.8% per year (when weighted by percentage Muslim and population size).[1] This compares with a world population growth rate of 1.1% per year.[2] As of 2011, it is predicted that the world's Muslim population will grow twice as fast as non-Muslims over the next 20 years. By 2030, Muslims will make up more than a quarter of the global population. If current trends continue, it is predicted by the year 2100 that about 1% more of the world's population will be Muslim (35%) than Christian (34%).[3]...Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman—well above replacement level (2.1)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth

I'd 'address the content' of that, only the content is lunacy. What a few crackpot fundamentalist Muslims say is worthless. That's why only rightie nutcase rags like the Daily Mail - from which that report was indeed drawn - will bother to take it seriously. As for Muslim population growth ... 1) Even if this were true and accurate - I can't see why it's necessarily a problem. The more religions mix with Western culture, the more said religions tend to be 'dampened down' by that culture. But, 2) again as part of the process of a religion immersing itself in a particular culture: population rates don't continue to grow *forever* as people move into western cultures.

This is where, again, I'd say: *look to the sociology*.

As an aside - I so often find myself asking: Why do right wingers believe western culture to be so feeble and fragile that it's always in danger of being destroyed by some imported alien culture? We have the Enlightenment tradition written into our political, social and economic institutions; we grow up suffused with it. This is why Islamist loons have far more to fear from Western culture than the other way around. In fact, that's their most oft-stated reason for their crazed position in the first place.

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People in the 80's thought japan was going to take over the US- I poo poo'd it. People thought china would take over the world economy in 2010 - again I pooh pooh'd it.

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So again, where do you draw your divine insight that allows you to say what will be in contravention of math

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Do you know why it's dificult for them to integrate? It's assholes like you that make them feel unwelcome, that make them feel like they can't make a life for themselves in the west because they're different, because people like you look at them like the enemy. The more people feel ostracized, the harder it is for consequtive generations to feel like they're truly apart of the country they're born in, which is often how resentment and eventual sympathy with extremism happens.

So if you want a reason for why people in the Middle East have trouble integrating, look in the mirror, and you'll find the answer staring right back at you.