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What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 12/21/2015 3:46:29 PM

domseekingsubnow

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Hi there, I'm a gay male dom with a few years’ experience in gay sites, the US and European gay leather scene. I have just recently join this site and I was surprise by the number of guys contacting me claiming to be bi and hetero.

You see, when I meet a guy in a gay setting who claims to be hetero I know what I’m dealing with, a closeted gay man. Years pass, the guy is happily out, and nobody remembers it, a small lie best forgotten.

But in this site, I’m not that sure. Most guys I chat with also seek and have relationships with dominant women. They are subs but they are somehow different from your average gay sub. The differences may not be obvious, but they are there. You see, most gay subs will never be caught dead crossdressing, the play in leather, sportswear, uniforms, etc. Masculine stuff, the stuff they like. This site heteros seeking Masters seem to be almost universally in favor of forced feminization, they want to play in panties, etc. As a Dom I happened to find that hot, but is actually rare in the gay word.

I should go without saying that I’m perfectly fine with anyway people choose to self-identify. If they guy who gets a hard on when I call him a fagot thinks of himself as hetero, well, more power to him. I’ll go out of my way to respect his identity, never assume he is a gay boy; I’ll even try to remember to send my regards to his girlfriend while I’m gaging him.

I also understand that some see submissibness as a sexual orientation in itself, although many others will disagree. Most gay subs I know would never play with women, finding the idea itself distressing.

So my question is, how should I think about this? Are this guys actually closeted gays or something else? Am I just a prop on someone else far out fantasy, or a relevant part of some guys sexuality?
My bet is that they enjoy gay sex and can bond with guys, bromance style, but they probably fall in love with the pretty girl next door. Hey, if they are hot I’m fine with that ;-)

< Message edited by domseekingsubnow -- 12/21/2015 4:01:27 PM >

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 12/26/2015 11:05:03 AM

bottomforbinding

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/3/2007
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quote:

So my question is, how should I think about this? Are this guys actually closeted gays or something else? Am I just a prop on someone else far out fantasy, or a relevant part of some guys sexuality?

Handle it however you're most comfortable; there are all types of hetero/bi guys out there who are anything from closet gay to dual identifying (hetero day to day, fem when dressed as a female). You should communicate ahead of time when it comes to language during play; some may like being called a faggot or other derogatory term some not (I know I don't).

You're only a prop if you feel that way but I would assume more often than not you are a relevant part of someone's desire (just be careful with your own emotions and don't get attached). Reading your profile you would definitely appeal to a lot of closet and dual identifying types since you would automatically put them in a compromising position where they have no power - that is the point.

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 12/26/2015 2:08:39 PM

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The answer is any of the above are possible and sometimes.

We could be talking about anything from closeted, to bi, to dual identity, to time wasters, to you're a prop, to it might turn out to be a thing. A lot of guys are just looking to be topped and they don't care who does it. As long as you're cool with that, have a blast.

You have to remember that most folks are seeing this place as a dating site and if they are interested in women, some are going to list as hetero, even if they are bi or bi-curious. In the het world, there's still a huge gender bias on bisexuality. Straight male Doms? The idea of their female sub being sexual with another woman is hot and something that gets highly encouraged. Straight female Doms? The idea of their male sub having been or wanting to be sexual with another man doesn't always go over so well. The male subs know this lowers their stock when it comes to finding a Dominant female (not always, but often) so not all of them are truthful about it.

How should you think of it? Probably in the stance that individuals have different motivations. If the guys are actually showing up, hey it's a party. If you're finding that you're just the hot online chat and you're willing to do that, have a good time with that, too. If you're grooving with the one night encounters and everybody is cool with that, rock on with the fun you're having. These guys aren't signing on for some deep emotional connection or looking to come out. Just have a good time with what you're doing.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to bottomforbinding)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 12/27/2015 10:57:16 AM

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Or guys into humiliation play who would much more of a 'lowly worm' if they submitted to another guy than to a woman. But to me that implies some closeted bisexualism.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 12/27/2015 7:35:18 PM

domseekingsubnow

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Joined: 12/17/2015
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Thanks for the answers, I didn't know 'dual identifying' was a thing, that may explain a lot. The dating angle and female bias on bisexuality sounds like a big part of the story, also.

The thing is those guys are terrible at communicating clear likes and boundaries, and I'm having a hard time finding out what they are really after. Consent is easy to establish, I insist on safe words and ask a lot, but I wonder if there are things that may be too gay or just plain boring for them. I don't think they specially enjoy, say, liking armpits or sweaty socks, as piggy boys would. Unfortunately those are not the type of low level details you can discuss with a sub, it breaks the dynamic. Still, I would like to have a better sense of who they are to at least avoid unnecessary awkward moments. The dual identifying femme angle may be helpful I would guess, how does a straight boy thinks a naughty wife should e treated? I can work from there.

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 12/29/2015 4:35:59 PM

bottomforbinding

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domseekingsubnow

The thing is those guys are terrible at communicating clear likes and boundaries, and I'm having a hard time finding out what they are really after. ..but I wonder if there are things that may be too gay or just plain boring for them. .. Unfortunately those are not the type of low level details you can discuss with a sub, it breaks the dynamic. Still, I would like to have a better sense of who they are to at least avoid unnecessary awkward moments. ...how does a straight boy thinks a naughty wife should e treated? I can work from there.

Us dual identifying types come in all stripes so communication is key but I agree that with some you can over think or talk it but you have to start somewhere. It would help having them talk about their experience, both positive and negative, and any fantasies they have. That way you don't have to worry about breaking the dynamic, just let them do all the talking at first then take it slow and easy the first couple of times to get their feedback (just like a regular vanilla date except with kink). If there something you want to try or object to after they talk then say something; since you're taking it slow with safe words you don't have to worry about going into specific details to kill the mood. In fact it could be as simple as discovering their limits then doing what you want; they may get off on someone taking command and improvising with the (mostly) unexpected.

The biggest turnoff I've found is when as a submissive I ask someone what they're into to see if we're on the same wave length and they tell me 'whatever I'm into'. Besides not wanting to top from the bottom (unless it's just a simple bondage session) it puts too much pressure on being creative and thus not really being able to enjoy the experience of being submissive. Talking about mutual fantasies ahead of time is fine but having to come up with the scenario is another. Some are into that, some not, just don't ever say "whatever you're into", lol. We'd like to know what turns you on too. My advice: Find a scenario you too can have fun with.

To get a better idea of these types I recommend visiting other sites and forums that specialize in transvestites, crossdressers, and sissies (not transgender though). Particularly with the latter (though some hate the term "sissy") you will find a lot of dual identifying types, some who even play with their wives while in character (if not hiding that side of themselves from their wife). Some like dick, some not; usually only in character. It's not about portraying a "naughty wife" necessarily, it could be many other things or characters, even something as simple as a sexy co-worker or other woman they spotted out somewhere that day they fantasize behaving as if that person were submissive and kinky. They rarely if ever find women dommes who put up with this behavior because when you think about it, it's sexist (though not meant that way). Men with wives that put up with this are the lucky ones.

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/1/2016 4:57:56 PM

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I think that you cannot generalise about such things and there may be a variety of reasons why hetro men would seek out a male dom.
One reason would be that some who may be in a stable relationship with a woman may require domination but not sex and the involvement of another man would not be as close to cheating on a spouse or partner as having an encounter with a lady.
I can state with complete certainty that I am a straight man but yet, the idea of submitting to discipline from another male is hot beyond words. I am not a closet gay or a bi and if I was I would have no reason to deny it so I can be honest about this. Stranger still, I would find it even hotter if I knew that the other party was sexually excited by the encounter and if there was an element of ‘forced’ gay about it. I know that many will interpret that is being gay and in denial but that is simply not true – slightly curious maybe but nothing more.
I do not believe that you would be “a prop on someone else far out fantasy” in such an event as it would be a two-way exchange with benefits and needs fulfilled on both sides. However, it does not follow that you would be “a relevant part of some guys sexuality” either as his only desire may be domination and not sex or a long term relationship.
Personally, I cannot imagine enjoying gay sex as I just do not feel any attraction. Neither do I like to bond with guys but would certainly bond with females. I cannot speak from experience as thus far, fantasy has not become reality, despite willingness and a couple of failed efforts.

(in reply to bottomforbinding)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/5/2016 9:10:55 PM

domseekingsubnow

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Joined: 12/17/2015
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Bottom, John, thanks a lot for your answer. It seems pretty obvious now that I should have posted my question in Ask a Submissive/Slave.

John, I would like to challenge you a little bit, please bear with me. You have beautifully explained your view of this, and it matches what I’m hearing from other guys. You do not appreciate male beauty, but appreciate and enjoy women looks, fall in love with them instead. Yes, you enjoy crossdressing, the idea of forced sexual encounters with men entice you, but on the balance you conclude you are heterosexual, based on your sense of beauty and romantic feelings instead of your wider range of sexual attraction. Some would argue that sexual attraction to sex with men by itself would define you as bisexual, but that’s just semantics and I don’t want to go there.

I’ve met quite a few gay bottoms who told me how they would dress up like ladies when they were children, secretly borrowing clothes from mothers and sisters. It seems to be a common rite of passage. They wanted to be pretty, to be liked, and their children mind decided looking like a female was the way to go. Later on they discover other males consider them attractive. They developed a taste for the male body and run to the gym, mostly because it is the way to get what they want, male attention. Mind you, they still think women are beautiful and sexy; they worship divas like Madona or Lady Gaga, and have more nonsexual girlfriends than any hetero would ever have, but they seek men for sex, not women.

It is also very common for pretty young gay guys to fall in love and get angaged with other pretty gay boys like themselves, making perfectly cute couples, and not doubt great like minded company. However, night time comes, the bar closes, and they head to the local sauna, dark room or daungeon. There they don't seek pretty boys for sex, pretty boys are unwelcome competitors. They seek bigger, older, uglier agresive guys with a big cock. They don’t seek good looking men, they seek body able powerful men that makes them feel cuter younger and sexier.

I would submit you are not that different. Yes, you may prefer wearing panties to tiny speedos, but the choice of clothe is perhaps irrelevant, you want to feel pretty, slutty and wanted; For whatever the reason you never took the next step, donning something that a male partner would actually consider sexy, but is not like you have interacted that much with male partners, so you probably don’t have a good picture of that anyway. You don’t find males pleasing to the eye, but guess what, the apreciation of good looks is a male thing. Most females are typically more concerned with social cues, not the looks of a sexual partner. Is he trustworthy, Strong, Assertive? Alpha males are not pretty, Doms are not pretty. Just like many females, a great many gay bottoms don't seek tops because they are cute, they seek guys who get the job done. You don't find handsome males atractive? Well, many females and gay guys don't care that much about how atractive their partners are either. They are attracted to what that guy is going to do with them, just like you.

I could however agree with you when you say you may be “slightly curious” instead of gay. You never had sex with males, and you still do things only younger gays would do, it sounds like gay arrested development, or perhaps just minimally gay; Yea, you may be slightly gay, but not enough to develop the full package.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing from you; Especially if you think I’m wrong, which I usually am when discussing other people’s feelings :)

< Message edited by domseekingsubnow -- 1/5/2016 9:57:10 PM >

(in reply to johnd77)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/6/2016 8:22:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domseekingsubnow

I could however agree with you when you say you may be “slightly curious” instead of gay. You never had sex with males, and you still do things only younger gays would do, it sounds like gay arrested development, or perhaps just minimally gay; Yea, you may be slightly gay, but not enough to develop the full package.

Aside from "bicurious," the term you may be looking for is "heteroflexible." Not all heteroflexible males will own up to being bicurious.

A lot of heteroflexible male subs will insist that "Mistress made me do it" or that they had a Domme-supervised/Domme-induced sexual encounter with another male in order to please their Mistress and to *prove* their submission to her, not because they really wanted to. Or so they say.

While these kinds of subs may not necessarily be latently bisexual - the gay arrested development to which you referred - as far as I'm concerned, by a certain age (past adolescence or one's sexually formative years leading into young adulthood), the willingness of any man to perform sexual acts with another male is NOT being "totally straight" in my book.

Btw, I'm not judging rightness or wrongness, only what's right or wrong for me personally in the type of man I desire for myself. As a general rule, I'm not attracted to men who don't act masculine, and of those who do so for the most part, I don't want one who exhibits any tendencies which aren't as straight as an arrow as mine are. This is just a matter of my own personal preference.

DreamLady

_____________________________

Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/6/2016 1:27:15 PM

domseekingsubnow

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Hi Dreamlady. A 100% straight sub? That's quite a challenge :)

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RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/6/2016 1:37:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domseekingsubnow

Hi Dreamlady. A 100% straight sub? That's quite a challenge :)

You're telling me! I'll settle for 98%, cuz I've only found the Holy Grail of subs once.

(He's gotta have a doppelgänger somewhere. . . probably across the pond living in the UK, though.

)

DreamLady

_____________________________

Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/6/2016 1:50:05 PM

domseekingsubnow

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100% straight, sub... and British? You are just messing with me, aren't you? :)

(in reply to dreamlady)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/6/2016 1:54:08 PM

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From: Western MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domseekingsubnow

100% straight, sub... and British? You are just messing with me, aren't you? :)

A Gal can dream now, can't she?

DreamLady

_____________________________

Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/26/2016 4:30:51 PM

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My orientation is straight, but I would submit to a dominant man, including sex. I would not, however, have a vanilla relationship or sex with a guy. Also, I have much less enthusiasm for "forced bi" with a fellow submissive under the direction of a dominant woman. It's taken me a long time to figure out what that makes me—bisexual, I suppose. But, I really don't worry about labels anymore because they are subjective enough among kinksters that they always require explanation anyway.

My interests were 100% straight until my mid 20s, after I started looking at gay BDSM porn in order to see decent imagery of male submissives. (In my experience, the femdom porn was very unsatisfying.) There were both higher quality imagery and better descriptions of realistic D/s dynamics. After a while, I considered dominant men for partners too. There were a few meetings but neither a relationship nor a play partnership ever happened. I got the impression there were just too many gay subs available to make someone like me worth experimenting with. My focus is on women, but I would still consider a guy. It puts a smile on the faces of some of the women I have talked to. Ever hopeful. :-)

(in reply to dreamlady)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/28/2016 6:47:03 PM

domseekingsubnow

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Understood. Thanks, lthrpup.

(in reply to lthrpup)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/29/2016 2:14:18 PM

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There is also the taboo factor. Many of us oldies were brought up in a society where being gay was a shameful crime. I identify with being bisexual and have had relationships with both men and women but there's still an extra 'naughtiness' associated with male to male sex mainly as it used to be illegal and frowned upon. Being teased/humiliated about this is always erotic. I daresay younger gay/bi men wouldn't experience this particular shame, be it pleasurable or not, as quite rightly our Western society now tends to support non hetero lifestyles.

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 1/30/2016 3:39:30 AM

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What you wrote was directed toward johnd77, but it does fit me pretty well too and I am straight. Not sure why you think able-bodied men aren't attractive though. It seems kind of silly to deny that different types of people have different types of beauty and simply labeling them as "uglier". Sure, a femboy is probably going to be cuter, but it doesn't make him more attractive. Take Chris Pratt and Hugh Jackman for example. Not girly at all, but they are very attractive.

I can even understand why some straight guys would want to submit to a guy. In the right head space where I was distanced from myself and an immense amount of trust even I might. As a guy I feel like I'm constantly cast as the anchor to keep others' world intact. All my life I tried to be a good person and act in the way that my defined gender role dictated. It is nice to be there for others and to help them, but keeping your own emotions in check and remaining strong is difficult. Sometimes you feel the need to break down, let everything go, but how? You've been enculturated to not break down to women. That isn't how things work. So you mimic women and break down to a man, you let him become your anchor and find comfort in giving yourself to him. Sometimes you just want to cuddle up next to someone strong that makes you feel safe and bask in the comfort they radiate. It's usually easier to find that with another man than a woman.

Of course, this is from a sample size of one. I've also been asked if I'm sure I'm not gay, I'm comfortable in gay clubs, have no problem being close to other men, and many other things you attributed to young gay men fit me, but I'm very much straight. I am somewhat envious of male subs that will play with either sex. It isn't easy to find a strong woman that you can find that comfort with.

I do want to suggest a view derived from the work of Paul Farmer. Before many of the resorts in Haiti were shuttered because of the HIV outbreak there was thriving gay sextourism. The Haitian culture didn't have a strong distaste for prostitution like we have in the US and many men on the island were sex workers. When they were interviewed and asked about their sexual orientation they insisted they were straight despite performing obviously homosexual acts. To them that was just something they did for work. It didn't change who they were. It didn't mean they went back to their wives where they lived a double life. They weren't in the closet. They simply had a need and they performed sexual acts to meet it. Perhaps that's what some of the men you are talking to are experiencing. They have a need that submitting to you will meet.

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 2/1/2016 4:31:48 AM

domseekingsubnow

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Hi Minion, thanks a lot for your answer. Yes, masculine men can be very attractive. The point I was making is that if we are horny enough we all downgrade our expectations. If Hugh Jackman is unavailable and the only top around is a Danny Trejo, well, Danny Trejo it is. If you are straight sub but Gina Carano is not answering your emails, well, the guy on leather chaps may do; it may not be your first choice, but at least he means business, right? The truth is quite a few subs would respond with an involuntary hard-on to alien anal probes, tentacle monsters :-)

Also, on a more personal note you wrote “All my life I tried to be a good person and act in the way that my defined gender role dictated”. OK, that doesn’t make you a good person, that will just make you unhappy. Forget about gender roles, boys don’t cry, the stoic man, etc. That’s just rubbish, it didn’t’ work 50 years ago, it doesn’t work now. Be yourself, gay or straight, you only live once. Don’t wait until you are old, fat and balding to discover yourself, a cute guy like you should be having a lot of fun :-)

PD: Yea, many scorts and por actors do that, male and female. That's called Gay-for-Pay, not the same thing

(in reply to minionno1)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 2/1/2016 1:11:03 PM

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Ah, sorry, I didn't intend for it to sound like being a good person and sticking to a gender role were connected that way. I don't consider sticking to a gender role and being a good person related in anyway. I should have found a way to make that clearer.

As for the constraints of gender roles; I agree with you. I'm very aware of how they are artificial constructs and don't really match who we are as people. At the same time enculturation is not something easily defeated. Even if someone is aware of it they will not always be able or want to counter it.

(in reply to domseekingsubnow)

RE: What's up with hetero subs seeking male Doms - 2/1/2016 10:23:37 PM

domseekingsubnow

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Joined: 12/17/2015
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Right, it can be difficult. Machismo and internalize homophobia is not just enculturation, it’s hard core conditioning, typically in the form of both peers and family bulling. It can reach PTSD levels, sometimes requiring therapy. The casual jokes about MDMA are not that far off the mark, MDMA have in fact been considered as a possible treatment for STPD (probably not a good idea, as MDMA is both neurotoxic, prone to accidental death from hyperthermia).

Anyhow difficult or not it can be overcome, that's what most of the 'training' is for; love works too :-)

< Message edited by domseekingsubnow -- 2/1/2016 10:30:25 PM >

(in reply to minionno1)

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