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Healthcare - 1/4/2016 3:53:03 AM   
whoonearth


Posts: 7
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		We all get ill and eventually die. In the meantime we all get various short term acute ailments and long term chronic ailments. The older we are the more ailments we live with daily.

We each live in different countries and each has a different healthcare system and some no healthcare whatsoever.

A few years ago there was controversy in the USA about so called Obama care. He wanted affordable comprehensive healthcare for all and the healthcare corporations favored the existing expensive system. The British NHS was quoted as one example of a failing socialist healthcare system. There is a system in many countries that few travelling overseas take advantage of. It guarantees that the tourist’s government will foot the bill if they are taken ill and the document is presented to the healthcare authorities. Many of us travel overseas but few of us actually get ill when doing so. Nonetheless it would be interesting to discover what countries provided the best quality healthcare that was affordable to all not just the wealthiest. The term postcode lottery was coined and that was to highlight the inequalities in healthcare from one geographic location to another. They have something called NICE which is in reality a healthcare rationing body. They also have many quangos each designed to compete with the others but do not actually provide any care.This is a divisive system designed to cause maximum disruption and diverts funds best spent elsewhere. In the UK there is a myth of healthcare being free at the point of delivery. Every working person in the UK pays around 12% of their salary in addition to the base rate tax which is around 20%, so a minimum of 32% is taken from each person’s salary. Even then they have to pay for prescription medication and most dentistry is not free. Some of their healthcare trusts are poorly managed and regulated and others are top of the range, world class medical care no matter the income are social class.

What do you think of the healthcare provision in the country in which you reside and how does it compare with other countries you have visited are live in?


< Message edited by whoonearth -- 1/4/2016 4:05:01 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Healthcare - 1/4/2016 7:51:34 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		I'm not going to argue with a sock because you need to do some reading instead of spewing garbage.

I'll put some facts your way to save you looking it up -
Most workers pay about 12% for our socialized healthcare.
The tax rate has nothing much to do with it.
I don't know where you got the notion that our NHS was quoted as a failing system.
It is much cheaper than anything the US has and performs better than the US in just about every field of healthcare.
The UK came in #8 of the world, the US and Canada didn't even rate in the top #25 countries.

N.I.C.E is not a rationing body either; it's a monitoring and measuring control group.
Our 'postcode lottery' is nowhere near as bad as some horrendous stories I've heard in the US where people can't get healthcare for pre-existing conditions or where the best healthcare is not in your state - we don't have that stupidity here.
We haven't had many 'quangos' since the late '80s; you're a bit out of date.
Most dentistry is free on the NHS.
For anyone on benefits, our NHS is completely and utterly free - it doesn't cost a single red cent anywhere.

So instead of picking holes Mr Sock, get some proper and recent information you can cite and then compare it with your own sub-standard system that is failing many millions of Americans.


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(in reply to whoonearth)
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RE: Healthcare - 1/4/2016 9:08:00 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Before Obama Care AKA The Affordable Health Care Act - our insurance was $377 per month for a good plan. $40 office visits, $80 for Urgent Care or Emergency, $20 generic prescriptions and $35 name brand.

The moment ACA went through it was cancelled. Now the Bronze plan is $964 per month with a $5,000 per person deductible and all of the fees are much higher than what we were paying. The Silver plan is $1172. We're not allowed to buy the Gold Plan, even if we were willing to pay for it.

The Fucktard next door - he works minimum wage, she doesn't work and FOUR kids - pays $79 a month for the Gold Plan.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 1/4/2016 9:17:16 AM >

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RE: Healthcare - 1/4/2016 9:10:04 AM   
Pinkstrokes


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		I am not in breach of TOS but you are. Anyone you do not like is a Sock Puppet. You are a cowardly bully.

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RE: Healthcare - 1/4/2016 9:12:06 AM   
Pinkstrokes


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		Thank you for the contribution and costs list onside girl.

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RE: Healthcare - 1/4/2016 9:19:52 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pinkstrokes

I am not in breach of TOS but you are. Anyone you do not like is a Sock Puppet. You are a cowardly bully.

Calling someone a sock is not against TOS.

Replying to your own thread under a second account is against TOS, so you're the one violating TOS.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Pinkstrokes)
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RE: Healthcare - 1/4/2016 9:25:22 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		The big failure of the ACA (Obamacare) is equating "health insurance" with "medical care".
The cost of health insurance has skyrocketed to the point that a middle class blue collar worker would have to make a second house payment a month for health insurance.
Actually being able to get treatment is as bad or worse than it was before the ACA.

This is the third time in my lifetime that liberal democratic congressmen have changed health care systems in the U.S. Each time it has increased the cost to the taxpayer and reduced the ability to get decent medical care.

The U.S. needs to do two things to make health care affordable.
1> Make it a Securities and Exchange violation for health insurance providers to own heal care providers. (break the connection that makes upwards spiraling charges an advantage)
2> Get health care issues away from bureaucrats by bringing back the Public Health Service and the PHS clinics. (What we had before dismantling the PHS in 1968 to create "medicaid" that spends 90% of allocated funds for administration and little on actual treatment)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Healthcare - 1/4/2016 9:38:50 AM   
Pinkstrokes


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		You are the fond of all wisdom. You are expert in everything. I got my information from many published sources. 12% is the rate and 20% Is the minimum. NHS funding comes from both forms of pay deduction. There are many quangos in the NHS and many compete with each other. Nice has rationed many medicines and it has prohibited many others. It often gets a bad press. Many Americans have inadequate healthier insurance. Employers pay the bulk of it. If no job the insurance is minimal and many get workers compensation.
You need to cease being a bullying and calling people socks.even a Sock can post sensible posts. You only create conflict you should try to resolve it. People can disagree without being aggressive and antagonistic.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Healthcare - 1/4/2016 9:39:58 AM   
Pinkstrokes


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pinkstrokes

You are the fond of all wisdom. You are expert in everything. I got my information from many published sources. 12% is the rate and 20% Is the minimum. NHS funding comes from both forms of pay deduction. There are many quangos in the NHS and many compete with each other. Nice has rationed many medicines and it has prohibited many others. It often gets a bad press. Many Americans have inadequate healthcare insurance. Employers pay the bulk of it. If no job the insurance is minimal and many get workers compensation.
You need to cease being a bully and calling people socks.even a Sock can post sensible posts. You only create conflict you should try to resolve it. People can disagree without being aggressive and antagonistic.



< Message edited by Pinkstrokes -- 1/4/2016 9:40:31 AM >

(in reply to Pinkstrokes)
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RE: Healthcare - 1/8/2016 3:57:46 AM   
royalarchmason


Posts: 88
Joined: 12/30/2015
Status: offline 		I think someone should oblige and give you many more pink strokes? Would you not agree with me?

(in reply to Pinkstrokes)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Healthcare - 1/8/2016 7:09:18 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I'm not going to argue with a sock because you need to do some reading instead of spewing garbage.

I'll put some facts your way to save you looking it up -
Most workers pay about 12% for our socialized healthcare.
The tax rate has nothing much to do with it.
I don't know where you got the notion that our NHS was quoted as a failing system.
It is much cheaper than anything the US has and performs better than the US in just about every field of healthcare.
The UK came in #8 of the world, the US and Canada didn't even rate in the top #25 countries.

N.I.C.E is not a rationing body either; it's a monitoring and measuring control group.
Our 'postcode lottery' is nowhere near as bad as some horrendous stories I've heard in the US where people can't get healthcare for pre-existing conditions or where the best healthcare is not in your state - we don't have that stupidity here.
We haven't had many 'quangos' since the late '80s; you're a bit out of date.
Most dentistry is free on the NHS.
For anyone on benefits, our NHS is completely and utterly free - it doesn't cost a single red cent anywhere.

So instead of picking holes Mr Sock, get some proper and recent information you can cite and then compare it with your own sub-standard system that is failing many millions of Americans.




Again, I do think the NHS needs a serious renovation, I'm happy that where you are you have great care, but there are failing standards and they have been reported over and over again, the reason for those is that politicians keep stripping the NHS of funds and it's shocking how many of the MPs or members of the House of Lords have shares in private health companies, they aren't the people who should be able to decide how much funds the NHS receives because they are interested in it performing badly so more people will buy private health.

Stuff like that is quite worrying, 3 out of 4 hospitals not reaching the standard

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/11931401/Three-in-four-NHS-hospitals-are-failing-says-watchdog.html

Jeremy Hunt doing the talk but not walking the walk doesn't help, especially not when he gets people who are so disabled that they can't make it to the unemployment office due to being treated at that time off the dole and takes their benefits

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/21/jeremy-hunt-duck-blame-nhs-failings

There's a pretty good article on Wikipedia where they summarized the problems

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_National_Health_Service_%28England%29

I think the problems and the challenges the NHS faces don't come from being socialized healthcare, quite the other way round, a great system has been stripped and the influx of capitalism (i.e. people who make decisions about the NHS having financial interests in private health) is the problem.

Stuff like offering GPs money so they don't refer patients to specialists is just horribly wrong in my book, not only will it drive up costs when something becomes chronic, it also means the GP tend to just try and treat something they aren't qualified for, they aren't specialists. If your GP refuses the referral, you end up paying privately, that is if you can afford it... Again it hits the people who are struggling the most

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34421115

Ranges the NHS gives are too broad, a lot of people have deficiencies but get told they are within range. Seriously, B12 costs next to nothing, I did a private test because my ranges were low despite supplementing (it's apparently a genetic thing that makes causes me to not absorb it right), I was always within range but on the very bottom, so I can't get the injections, I order them now myself and inject once a week, I'm fine as a fiddle, a year's supply cost me about £30, GP claimed since I am within the range, no matter how low, can't get them but offered me antidepressants, because it's all due to me feeling a bit low, yeah, if you are low on B12 and D you are feeling low.... The shots would be Pennies, I think the antidepressants are much more, it's so freaking nuts, almost if you say "the roof is leaking" and they start putting new carpets in.

I seriously sympathize with people working in the NHS, a lot of them are busting their butts and aren't making a lot of money, they genuinely want to help people but they can't because their budget won't allow it.

Having said that, I rather have the NHS than nothing, but again, putting the blame on socialized health care is just wrong, it's not the socialized health care that is the problem, it's the privatization that caused the mess. My big fear is that we end up with a system like the US where you can get great care if you can afford it, if not, you're truly screwed.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Healthcare - 1/8/2016 7:35:53 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
Status: offline 		I live in the United States.
Our healthcare system is ridiculous.
My husband pays out the wazoo bi weekly for our insurance. Man has worked for 50 years. Our co pays are crazy and so is our deductible. Our percentage toward healthcare costs beyond the covered is highway robbery. We will be paying the rest of our life's unless we want to file bankruptcy.
Absolutely makes zero sense. Honestly I think we reward laziness and penalize hard workers.
Is it any wonder why kids never leave home, work? Why work? When you can get it for free, or reduced cost.
Reward bad behavior and it becomes the norm.

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Healthcare - 1/8/2016 8:41:13 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		I used to live in the US and still spend a few months each year there, I had the absolute best and worst healthcare there.

Typical example one dentist, I had gum problems from hell, the one dentist recommended pulling all my teeth and getting implants (yeah, we're looking at what? About $100K easily) as he claimed there is no stopping the gingivitis, didn't reply to my question about how the implants would work if the gums still would get inflamed, went to another dentist who suggested talking to my GP about upping my D3 intake considerably, told me thyroid conditions tend to leach D from the system and it's not uncommon that D deficiency affects the gums... Done that, costs about $300, no implants, got all my teeth, my gums are fine....

The system is a bit nuts, though, there were people who couldn't afford health care as they had pre-existing conditions. As for paying for the rest of your life, medicare kicks in at a certain age, doesn't it?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

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RE: Healthcare - 1/8/2016 10:04:29 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I used to live in the US and still spend a few months each year there, I had the absolute best and worst healthcare there.

Typical example one dentist, I had gum problems from hell, the one dentist recommended pulling all my teeth and getting implants (yeah, we're looking at what? About $100K easily) as he claimed there is no stopping the gingivitis, didn't reply to my question about how the implants would work if the gums still would get inflamed, went to another dentist who suggested talking to my GP about upping my D3 intake considerably, told me thyroid conditions tend to leach D from the system and it's not uncommon that D deficiency affects the gums... Done that, costs about $300, no implants, got all my teeth, my gums are fine....

The system is a bit nuts, though, there were people who couldn't afford health care as they had pre-existing conditions. As for paying for the rest of your life, medicare kicks in at a certain age, doesn't it?


Honestly I don't know how that works. Guess we will find out soon. Me I'm a long way from Medicare. Oh saying that made me feel young!

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http://youtu.be/Gl9AGlbe3YU

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RE: Healthcare - 1/9/2016 12:06:38 AM   
richardamerike


Posts: 11
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		So the more you pay the less you get! That seems weird and bad business to me.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Healthcare - 1/9/2016 12:28:28 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Having said that, I rather have the NHS than nothing, but again, putting the blame on socialized health care is just wrong, it's not the socialized health care that is the problem, it's the privatization that caused the mess. My big fear is that we end up with a system like the US where you can get great care if you can afford it, if not, you're truly screwed.

Considering, despite all the problems we have with our NHS, it outranks the US and Canada by far when it comes to most aspects of healthcare. That, in and of itself, tells me that the system (as a whole) performs much better than the private profit-driven system that the US have.

When you factor in the cost to the individual for said care, even if you pay for everything because you're working at a decent-paying job, the cost per person in the US is about 3x more than we pay here for a better service overall.
On top of that, when you consider the exclusions for pre-existing conditions, deductibles, cover not being nationwide (depending who you're with), lack of choices for professionals, costs of things not covered etc etc etc, our social healthcare system beats private insurance-based systems on every count.
This is why when Maggie tried to get everyone onto private health insurance it just didn't pan out as she hoped it would. Social healthcare beats private (and expensive) healthcare hands down.

Essentially, the private system has out-priced itself.
I would sooner have social healthcare any day; even more so if you aren't rich enough to pay for private-based systems.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Healthcare - 1/9/2016 1:29:43 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		The British NHS was formed 68 years ago and was a brilliant idea. Up until then, a huge amount of wealth was made on the backs of the sick, similar to what we see in the US today. That though, is exactly why our government is presently trying to seek its way back into the private sector and from where I'm sitting, there seems to be no stopping it.

There is nothing wrong with the NHS but when a government wants to privatize something, it has to first run it into the ground and make it appear not to work. They did this with our gas, coal, water, social housing, the phone service, the postal service and the railways and medicine is next. Kerry Anne Mendoz recently wrote: Our NHS is being outsourced, commercialized and financialized to destruction and when the end comes, the blame will be placed on the public service, not the private parasites. The argument will be made that we can no longer afford our NHS and the public health goldmine will fall into full ownership of the profiteers. Its not only public health system, its our educations system too.

The NHS is failing because its being privatized by stealth, right under the noses of the British people.

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RE: Healthcare - 1/9/2016 1:32:00 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


Essentially, the private system has out-priced itself.
I would sooner have social healthcare any day; even more so if you aren't rich enough to pay for private-based systems.



Then make yourself informed and fight for it.

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My store is http://e-stimstore.com

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Profile   Post #: 18
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