"Snow White" banned (Full Version)

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Kirata -> "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 8:55:56 AM)


Once upon a time, a popular fairy tale was plucked from a school library in Qatar after an outraged parent complained that it was full of sexual innuendos. The offending storybook was based on the classic Disney film "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs," in which a young woman eats a poisonous apple and is later revived by a handsome prince's kiss.

Freud would be amused.

After a parent at SEK International School Qatar voiced concern that the book's illustrations and text were culturally inappropriate, Qatar's Supreme Education Council, or SEC, ordered its removal, Doha News reported on Thursday. The school's principal, Vivian Arif, quickly moved to ensure no child would ever read it there again. “SEK International School Qatar is proud to be established in this country and presents its formal apologies for any offense that this unintended situation may have caused," she said in a statement to Doha News.

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I've never before seen a culture so preoccupied with sexuality and fearful of losing control that it enforces suppression to such a lunatic degree.

K.



satanscharmer -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 10:26:37 AM)

Do they ban hotdogs, too? Just eating one is exhibiting extremely inappropriate sexual behavior by consuming phalic-shaped meat sticks.

Seriously, anything can be turned into something sexual and it's a little disturbing to me that an adult would look at a children's book and seriously suggest that it's filled with sexual innuendos. It makes the assumption that young children are naturally capable of making those connections. That's talent. I didn't start making those connections until later.

Just doesn't mesh with my parenting philosophies and is not a culture I could immerse myself in.



WickedsDesire -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 11:25:07 AM)

The forbidden fruit/muffin a story originating from the mists of time itself...they all do, you know, and predate all religious variants which came many epochs later.

An oddity of decision and rationale – not sure I really care. Not for me to impose my will on other cultures nor would it make an iota of a difference.



bounty44 -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 12:19:56 PM)

it is stories like that, that are the stuff of my saying "I don't want the usa to become Saudi Arabia west."



Wayward5oul -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 1:23:00 PM)

They are by no means alone in their attempts at suppression.

The fact that there is so much violence in Snow White, but was still marketed to children, was cited as the reason that the Supreme Court struck down a law banning the sale of violent video games to minors.
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/supreme_court_strikes_down_law_baning_sale_of_violent_video_games_to_minors/

And some, by no means all, books banned.
The Merriam-Webster Dictionary
When: 2010
Why: The 10th edition was banned in several classrooms in California because it included the definition for “oral sex.”

Where’s Waldo? by Martin Handford
When: 1987
Why: The book was banned and then reprinted because it originally showcased a topless beachgoer (not like anyone could find her if they tried, though).

Winnie-the-Pooh by A. A. Milne
When: 2006
Why: Talking animals are somehow considered an “insult to god,” resulting in this book’s banning throughout random parts of the United States. Several institutions in Turkey and the UK have also banned the book, claiming that the character of Piglet is offensive to Muslims. Other institutions claim that the book revolves around Nazism.


Where the Wild Things Are by Maurice Sendak
When: 1963
Why: The book was primarily banned in most southern states immediately following its publication, and it has since been challenged due to the fact that it promotes “witchcraft and supernatural events.”

Charlotte’s Web by E. B. White
When: 2006
Why: Similar to Winnie-the-Pooh, this book was banned in Kansas because talking animals are considered an “insult to god.”

Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank
When: 2010
Why: Forget anti-semitism; the 50th Anniversary “Definitive Edition’” was instead banned by a Virginia school because of its “sexual content and homosexual themes.” Additionally, the book was previously banned by several schools in the United States because it was “too depressing.” Most recently, in May of 2013, a Michigan mom tried to get the book banned due to its “pornographic tendencies.”


http://www.buzzfeed.com/spenceralthouse/classic-childrens-books-that-have-been-banned-in-america#.ykGdrQ23k


http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/2012/1003/30-banned-books-that-may-surprise-you/Grimm-s-Fairy-Tales-by-Jacob-Ludwig-Karl-Grimm-and-Wilhelm-Karl-Grimm



bounty44 -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 2:31:22 PM)

i dont disagree---in the past ive gotten into arguments/discussions with my friends over not allowing their kids to read/watch harry potter, star wars, lord of the rings, etc.



satanscharmer -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 2:56:08 PM)

If a parent wants to censor what their child reads, that's their choice. In my opinion, they're doing a disservice to their child - but that's just an opinion. I've had someone question me about allowing my kid to read Lord of the Flies, so I know how annoying it is to be questioned. I just don't like the option taken away from others, such as removing them from libraries, because some people disagree.



bounty44 -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 3:23:27 PM)

to me, the greater, and fun question underneath all of this is, what role does the government have (or should have) when it comes to the arts?



MrRodgers -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 3:31:58 PM)

Hey now, we don't want to offend anyone's sensibilities now, do we ? I mean isn't Snow White getting banged by 7 dwarfs anytime they (she) wants ? And this after all, in some presentations, Snow White...is black. Well...isn't she ? Waste of pixels.



satanscharmer -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 4:16:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

to me, the greater, and fun question underneath all of this is, what role does the government have (or should have) when it comes to the arts?


I disagree. Everything is all fun and games until you involve the government.



Termyn8or -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/22/2016 8:26:48 PM)

FR

They banned Tom Sawyer. And for alot less. Sure it depicted racially bigoted values, but was also set in the past. If I were Black I just might WANT this still out there to show kids how the fuck "n_____" were treated. It was a goddamn abomination and I think alot of them would see it that way. You know - never forget ?

I do however have the text of something that got the Parents al riled up in one state about what was in a book in the school fro possibly teens or maybe preteens. It described the cum dripping on the floor and all this shit. I think most people would agree that this is not appropriate until puberty, and I am pretty sure it was.

Like Russia prohibiting the promotion of homosexuality to children. They should not be promoting ANY sexuality to children, they already figure it out too fucking fast. Go ahead and pass out the condoms, if they know how to use them then hope they do. If they don't know how to use them, wait until they figure it out.

T^T



thompsonx -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/23/2016 3:40:33 AM)


ORIGINAL: Kirata

I've never before seen a culture so preoccupied with sexuality and fearful of losing control that it enforces suppression to such a lunatic degree.


It happens all the time in amerika.



bounty44 -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/23/2016 5:33:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: satanscharmer


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

to me, the greater, and fun question underneath all of this is, what role does the government have (or should have) when it comes to the arts?


I disagree. Everything is all fun and games until you involve the government.



please note the caveat parenthetical question implied by the word "should."

im not sure how your "I disagree" follows from the question I posed, the way I posed it.

this is from the national assembly of state arts agencies:

Why Government Support

Fundamental to any democracy is ongoing dialogue about the role of government and the ways the public sector should best support the well-being of citizens and communities. Sometimes those questions turn to the public-sector role of the arts:

Cover of Why Should Government Support the Arts?

◾Why should government support the arts?
◾Are the arts a worthwhile investment during hard economic times?
◾Why can't the private sector pick up the costs?
◾Why are state arts agencies important?

there's a link on the site to a pdf wherein they answer those questions.

http://www.nasaa-arts.org/Advocacy/Advocacy-Tools/Why-Government-Support/index.php

from the national endowment for the arts:

quote:

About the NEA

Established by Congress in 1965, the NEA is the independent federal agency whose funding and support gives Americans the opportunity to participate in the arts, exercise their imaginations, and develop their creative capacities. Through partnerships with state arts agencies, local leaders, other federal agencies, and the philanthropic sector, the NEA supports arts learning, affirms and celebrates America’s rich and diverse cultural heritage, and extends its work to promote equal access to the arts in every community across America.


and on the contrary, some pretty neat stuff here:

http://www.debate.org/debates/Resolved-The-National-Endowment-for-the-Arts-should-not-be-funded-by-the-Government/1/

and here too:

http://gdppc.idebate.org/discussions/culture-art-and-entertainment/national-endowment-arts



satanscharmer -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/23/2016 8:56:46 AM)

Now that I have some more time...

You thought the fun question was how the government should play a role in it, I disagreed (lighthearted humor). You can also extend it to (under my all) the government playing a role in the arts - but in terms of what this discussion has been about thus far - in deciding what art is acceptable or not acceptable. Art is meant to enrich and entertain lives. It can be fun, even. Unless the art is breaking a law, the government should not step in. Otherwise they would, quite possibly, take some of the fun out of art.

As for supporting the arts...
I believe that the arts play an important role. I believe that it helps improve children's learning and can be therapeutic for both children and adults (the adult coloring books have taken off). There have been some studies done to determine if art education plays a role in intelligence and some insist there is a link to improved social skills, attention span and retention.

http://www.onlinecolleges.net/10-salient-studies-on-the-arts-in-education/

So, should the government support the arts? Well, in my opinion yes and no. Yes, I believe they should support the arts in terms of educational and historical settings (schools and museums). I want to live in a country where intelligence is prevalent and if art helps increase that chance then great.
In terms of supporting artists and their career choice, I'm very iffy on that and lean towards 'no'.

Now, one may say that if the government is supporting the arts financially then they should have a say in what is acceptable or not acceptable. Again, I believe they should only step in if it's breaking a law. It's up to the people to decide whether or not they want to see, watch, listen or read something. Don't agree with a theater production, don't go to one. Don't like sexually suggestive art, don't go to the exhibit. Don't like a book, don't pick it up and read it. But what about things in public view...

I remember while living in Kansas, there was a statue in a park that caused some controversy:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/american-family-association-sexting-statue_n_4038724.html

Personally, I liked it and thought it could bring up a good conversation with my children had we walked by it. It's art, meant to spark some thought. Some others disagreed and thought it too sexual in nature and not appropriate for minors. They argued that it broke the obscenity law. If that were true, the government should step in. However, I do not agree that it broke a law since I do not see it falling under "taken as a whole, a reasonable person would find that the material or performance lacks serious literary, educational, artistic, political or scientific value".

They still have the option to not go to the park. If someone wants to keep their child in a bubble, that's best done at home.



bounty44 -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/23/2016 9:27:50 AM)

ah, now I got how you were meaning it, thank you...smiles...



MercTech -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/23/2016 11:32:13 AM)

Well, "Tom Sawyer" was lambasted when first published because the only adult male portrayed with wisdom and honor was the runaway slave. Meh, it is fiction and Sam Clemens often used humor through exaggeration of stereotypes.

As to "Snow White"; if you go back to the Brothers Grimm versions that aren't expurgated you find that most of the tales are not really considered fit for children. One of my favorite Grmm Brothers tales tells of a young woman murdered by a noble. A paddler later finds her bones and makes a flute of her femur and a harp of her ribs. When played, they sing the tune of the perfidy of the noble. Disney versions of classic tales are quite dumbed down pablum compared to the cautionary tales the "Fairy Tales" of the dark ages were.



DominantWrestler -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/23/2016 11:48:19 AM)

Some versions of the Snow White tales have her exchanging sex along with cooking and cleaning for board. Some versions, the dwarves rape her. It's not like we don't censor educational systems, like the ban on catcher in the rye and teaching evolution



bounty44 -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/23/2016 12:22:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

Some versions of the Snow White tales have her exchanging sex along with cooking and cleaning for board. Some versions, the dwarves rape her.


being that ive never seen, nor even heard of such versions, can you be a little more forthcoming please?



thompsonx -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/23/2016 12:44:21 PM)

How about the art of robert maplethorp funded by the nea?



MercTech -> RE: "Snow White" banned (1/26/2016 11:55:08 AM)

Some links about adult themed origins of fairy tales.

http://bookriot.com/2015/08/20/sanitize-fairy-tales/

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/12/grimms-fairy-tales-the-hardcore-version/

http://theconversation.com/reader-beware-the-nasty-new-edition-of-the-brothers-grimm-34537

http://www.amazon.com/Hard-Facts-Grimms-Fairy-Tales/dp/0691114692

http://www.amazon.ca/The-Complete-Fairy-Tales-Grimm/dp/0099511444

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_Grimm

The modern term for what the Brothers Grimm tried to do would be considered cultural anthropology. They tried to capture from oral traditions the tales from a world that was rapidly becoming submerged by what was then modern society.
During the Romantic period; the tales were watered down for politically correct sensibilities. The tales most of us English speakers know mainly come from an 1857 translation from German that was written for Victorian sensibilities.



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