MrRodgers
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ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence
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ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence
Trump is a light fascist and Sanders is a light socialist to keep it very simple.
But like someone else said, what they have in common is that they are as far from neo liberal policies as one can get probably get in American politics.
They also aren't interested in moral issues and refrain from discussing them leading them to be able to catch voters from the communitarian rightists such as the religious ones.
I think that Sanders could gain a crushing advantage if he out of the blue started calling for the adoption of morally conservative issues that progressives aren't interested in.
Let's say that Sanders started actively campaigning against gambling and increasing federal control over alcohol sales. I doubt any progressive "liberal" would switch over to Trump because of this but various Trump supporters might switch over to Sanders.
I also think that being more moderate on guns would be a strategically correct card to play, as again they would not switch to Trump but more people could switch from Trump to Sanders. Of course he has to beat Hillary first.
It's all about strategy at this point.
If Hillary is elected for the democratic ticket Trump could easily flipflop on a lot of social and economic issues, again precluding any conservative from supporting Hillary but Hillary supporters could more easily then switch to Trump.
The established candidates do not have the option to flip flop on some of the more important issues because of lobbyist interests. So Trump and Sanders have far more room for strategic maneuvering leading me to conclude that if either Trump or Sanders are elected and if they really want to win above all and have a solid team of advisors then I doubt they can lose. It only becomes interesting if both are elected for their party list.
And yes, Hillary is beating Trump in all sorts of polls but Trump hasn't even had time to really open his mouth up about her in any serious way yet. In a 1v1 race there are all sorts of positions he could attack.
An easy foreign policy point would be the possible conflict arising from future tension between Turkey and Russia. Hillary is beholden to the Saudis and the classical US foreign policy position in the middle east. Trump has room to act in support of Russia, proclaiming that they are fighting Daesh while the Turks fight the Kurds and thus assist Daesh.
He has the room to attack Hillary (and her husband) for repeatedly failing to bring about a working health care plan and having no alternatives to "Obama care" despite this supposedly being her main political drive since she was young.
He can drag union workers to his side by attacking mexican immigration from the perspective of wage dumping.
She can't respond because she is beholden to the Hispanic vote. The only option left for her would be a radical one in terms of giving Unions further rights to enforce blockades and equal pay for immigrants; I doubt her donors would allow her to go that far nor would she probably want to. Plus then Trump could really start dishing out "Oh and we thought Sanders was the socialist" card.
There are so many angles of attack possible he'd have to want to lose to actually lose.
Interesting comments.
Light fascist vs. Light socialist!
It appears that neither of them are in bed with lobbyists or special interest groups {at least it's not blatantly obvious}.
I agree it's only interesting if both are elected for their political party.
If Hillary wins, and that is who this nation elects, I'm thinking we get the country we deserve.
Just as we "deserve" our current country.
Well I don't think it will be a walk in the park what ever choice is made. America benefits from capitalism because it is its financial center and the dollar is basically as strong as it is because everyone uses it for various transactions. It's just that the benefit is not really seen because the wealth distribution has become so scewed.
But imagine if Trump wins and builds his wall, it won't solve much but one thing it might do is curb low skilled labor immigration. Now that's going to hard struggling agro commerce. Or if either of them doesn't sign the various Trans this or that agreements American corporations might lose on international competitiveness if other countries do sign them. Now if it goes so far to challenge the dollars stability then inflation might skyrocket because so much of your currency derives its value from the GDP of other nations and if they dump it and you can't consume domestic products then you're screwed.
And the thing is, America doesn't have the old industrial base it used to have to fall back on.
Challenging financial capitalism and its global trade is difficult if you've built your country around it.
Plus especially Sanders might not be willing to wage war to keep to force other nations in line which might further influence other nations to abandon the dollar or leave the frameworks of the global trade that America benefits from, they might for example raise tariffs or join new currency pacts. Less wars also means less income for your military industrial corporations...
Some good points but as far as the dollar is concerned, I am not worried. Not only with rates not now but in the future, going up even if just a very little at a time but the dollar is still not only the world's reserve currency which it will remain with trillion$ a year in dollar denominated business, but is the safe haven (escape valve) from all of the troubled currencies around the world.
Plus there is the steady confidence in the US economy and of course the basis for the real value of any currency...the US labor force.
Here's an interesting picture just how important the Agro commerce sector is for the United States and for the rest of the world:
An increase in wages or a deportation of immigrants might actually lead to both a food price crisis and a massive abandoning of US currency as people struggle to find alternative suppliers.
There are few other sectors that are as labor intensive agriculture. I mean who knows how large part of the costs of these businesses are tied to labor costs but it might be a larger part than other sectors. I actually had no idea that Mexico was so behind the US. That's just kinda sad. They send their young and able bodied men to work on US fields for peanuts and then import the food that they buy for the money sent back from the workers which is then funneled back to the agro commerce sector.
Well what I mean by confidence in any given labor force is what labor does over all, meaning every step of the way. What the end product is as a result, (finished product) and is called enhanced value. So when judging the value of any currency, any holder judges the expertise built into and quality of the product that results in its 'enhanced value' and what they will get for a dollar.
To use your example, years ago at an agric. show (an American was actually arrested and told to cease and desist from trying to sell his rice) in Japan. Specifically when one compares each county's product, it was no contest. Japanese rice is shipped to the customer in a bag...full of shit. It had rocks, dirt and bad rice etc. whereas the American rice and anyone can attest, was perfect...clean, ripe and ready to prepare and eat.
That's the case for many products that all around the world, customers (and countries directly as a result) hold dollars to spend on (foreign exchange) American goods and has direct influence on the dollar remaining their reserve currency. Imagine you are in the treasury dept. of any number of small foreign countries, what currency should you hold ?
So for your example and in particular, do you realize just how bad the food market would have to get in the US for what you suggest to really make any difference at all ? Part of the turn around in the auto industry in the US, is that for quality and price, they have had a great comeback and set a record for 2015.
< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/17/2016 1:39:28 PM >
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You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith
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RE: What Trump and Sanders Have in common - 
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