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She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch


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She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/26/2016 11:06:35 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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I have seen it many times.

Sub guy hooks up with a woman he finds incredibly attractive, and she's kind of bossy, demanding, doesn't take any shit. Wow -- femdom right?

Nope.

She is just that - a controlling bitch. But he kind of enjoys her bossiness on some level, despite a dead bedroom (because she is also in charge of sex - and just says NO, and don't even ask. NO.)

Reminds me very much of Melissa in The Hangover (Stu's girlfriend). She's just a bitch, a controlling bitch.

Subs, have you fallen into this? Any attraction in her style?

Very quick clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5gsKQd5pHg

Akasha

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RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/26/2016 11:51:52 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		This was interesting. Btw, thank you for providing the link because movies like "The Hangover" aren't exactly my genre.

Points due. I can definitely see that actress as hot. Redhead, size four, got the geek glasses going on. Take those off, fluff the hair, put her in the right outfit, and that woman is gorgeous. I'm totally seeing it.

I'm seeing a question under the question. Hang with me because it is a stretch.

What's the difference between that example and when we tell men that they aren't Dominant? Instead, they are domineering.
Do we label them different terms (domineering vrs controlling bitch) based on what? Gender? Come to think of it, when is the last time we saw people calling a new female D domineering? Going right for 'controlling bitch' is a very good illustrative point in how we see genders differently.


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(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/27/2016 9:46:06 AM   
def411


Posts: 9
Joined: 4/2/2014
Status: offline 		Hi Aakasha,

Dominance comes in many forms. I am attracted to women who are confident and take control. So yes I could be attracted to such a woman. I think it is more a commentary on my submissive desires.

david

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/27/2016 10:21:17 PM   
dreamlady


Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline 		Subject: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch.

You mean there's a difference?

I'm really not being flippant. Owners exert control. They don't have to be control freaks, however.

What I find most interesting is that there are a sizeable number of male subs, either still married, separated, or newly divorced, who describe the kind of Mistress they (think they) want.
This description invariably sounds like someone who acts like a control freak.

Upon further inquiry, when describing their unhappy marriage, the irony becomes apparent.

To wit, they want to be a chastity slave to a Keyholder Mistress or else they want T&D as in Orgasm Control & Denial.
They complain their [ex-]wife cut them off from sex, and they feel hurt & bitter about it.
So can you or anybody explain to me WHY they seek a woman in the form of a Domme to control their sex lives and deny them regular sexual release, yet again?
After all, they had/have that in vanilla form. Lol

They say they want to serve a Dominant woman. No strings attached. They offer to come by and do yardwork, clean the house, whateverTF.
(Cooking meals and performing massages are other typical services they offer.)

Time and again, the same repetitive themes.
Like I once asked a sub friend of mine, What do you need a Mistress for when your wife already controls you and dictates the terms of your marriage?
Does not compute. The missing ingredient? She doesn't indulge the husband's fetishes. Now, what makes these vanilla newbie "subs" presume that their not-for-hire Mistress will? She might, she might not. That would be entirely up to her as his Mistress.

With this recent East Coast blizzard, I had a so-called slave who lives nearby go on and on about how he [insert loop here] wants an FLR, loves to cook from scratch [I do just fine with the cooking part, don't need my meals prepared for me], gives massages [meh, can take it or leave it] and loves to give oral (that, always that, offered as a sexual service, as if there is any shortage of oral slaves to be had).

What I truly needed was for somebody to come help me shovel my way out of 3 feet of snow. Now, this man wasn't my sub, so I wasn't going to tell him what to do.
I vocalized my need, which was at that moment I needed a (male) friend more than I needed a (male) sub right now.
Granted, if he had offered, I wouldn't have accepted because we were still strangers. But, if he had had any sense, he would have offered to help me out, not only to get into my good graces (like any interested vanilla man would have done and which one of my male neighbors did without a second thought), but as an opportunity to meet in person when we had left off without any meeting between us being a future possibility.

Seriously, what do I want with a self-professed slave who's not only unreliable, either too lazy or unfit to join me in shoveling snow - which had turned icy hard in some places - and on top of that, stoopit as fuq while he goes on and on about how happy he was to have heard back from me?

DreamLady

P.S. In fact this idiot fool was so elated that he closed his CS account the very next day, saying that he didn't need to be looking for his "Goddess" anymore. Pff-t.
TMI, but then I had to chew him out for contacting me on the vanilla site where we both have profiles saying that he had "done as [I had] requested" him to do. Wtf? I had never done any such thing. The point being, can't listen worth a darn, prove yourself to be of no relevant use to me, and you call yourself a slave?

< Message edited by dreamlady -- 2/27/2016 10:49:00 PM >

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RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/28/2016 6:10:34 AM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
With this recent East Coast blizzard, I had a so-called slave who lives nearby go on and on about how he [insert loop here] wants an FLR, loves to cook from scratch [I do just fine with the cooking part, don't need my meals prepared for me], gives massages [meh, can take it or leave it] and loves to give oral (that, always that, offered as a sexual service, as if there is any shortage of oral slaves to be had).


There are many lessons to be gleaned by (men) reading that last post in its entirety ...

(in reply to dreamlady)
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RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/28/2016 10:07:49 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		At my advanced age of almost 54, I've come to the conclusion that people are whatever they want to think they are. They may not be an exemplary vision of how I personally see that descriptive, but hey, whatever tickles their fancy.

Example, 99.999% of the people that have contacted me over the years are not, to me, or for me, submissive, or slave material. To ME, they tend to be selfish and kinky, but not at all submissive. It's just a game they are playing at an attempt to get their kink fed. BUT, that is why I don't have a relationship with them. To another self described (because that's really what allllllllll of this is...) a large percentage of that 99.999% might actually be submissive/slave material. I simply have a different measure than they do.

Another example, I rarely see males, that consider themselves dominant types, in that light. I'm cynical and have a different measure of what the dominant in a relationship actually is. That doesn't make them less so to the people that they are in M/s relationships with. Just not someone I see as being what they believe they are. BUT, they are not in a relationship with me.

Yet another example, a lot of males do not see women as having the ability to be dominant or viable leaders, (a lot of s type females don't either...). Well, that's really not my problem. They don't have any impact (ha ha) on me, my life, or my relationships.

All that matters to ME, is the success of MY relationships. I've got a track record that pleases ME. The rest just doesn't matter. Period.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/28/2016 4:19:10 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		Also- since I know the movie...

Its set up like she drives him to cheating on her with hookers. When really- has he proven to the audience that he's trust worthy and worth her time? We don't know anything else of their relationship, and his friends AREN'T mature- they ARE gross- and he DOES go to a strip club.

His choices are his- he chose to date someone incompatible with him, then whines and is shitty when it doesn't work out. Why is the blame on her for the failure of their sex life?

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RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/28/2016 6:19:02 PM   
dreamlady


Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
There are many lessons to be gleaned by (men) reading that last post in its entirety ...



Hahahahahaha. . .
Guess he'd have hopped right on over if he thought he could have done it buck naked!
(Between you and me, though, I think he stood a better chance with me by keeping his clothes on!)

That's where I'm doing it wrong. I don't act like a bossy bitch -- or at least, I don't think I do.
Or maybe I'm just frugal. I don't like to give away free Domination samples. Insta-Domming is not a kink of mine.
It's also a good way to screen out the "do-me"s, the ones who don't place much value on their offerings of submission, as well as the ones who think their 1-2 item specialty fetishes make them such a desirable sub catch.

I'm like LaTigresse when she says, "All that matters to ME, is the success of MY relationships. I've got a track record that pleases ME. The rest just doesn't matter. Period."

DreamLady

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Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

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RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/28/2016 11:14:47 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Guess he'd have hopped right on over if he thought he could have done it buck naked!

Yup. He'd satisfy both his kink and his innate angelic good-Samaritan desire to please you, all at the same time.
It's simply using his sexual needs to further your shoveling needs! :)



quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
(Between you and me, though, I think he stood a better chance with me by keeping his clothes on!)

That's probably because men and women look for (vastly) different things in each other when it comes to sexual turn-ons.


quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
That's where I'm doing it wrong. I don't act like a bossy bitch -- or at least, I don't think I do.

To the point of this thread, I met a "bossy bitch" from the FL side a month or so ago.

She contacted me first, based on something I had posted, and I responded to her back and forth a few dozen times in the FLmail before we met.
I initially read her profile, and, while it didn't inspire me to greater thoughts, it did read like any femdom script, so, I figured, what the heck.
Maybe it will work out.

Right in her profile she listed a bunch of "conditions", and I told her right off the bat that I didn't meet ALL her conditions; which she accepted.

I met her for tea (she doesn't like coffee) at a book store (she doesn't like coffee shops) near her (she doesn't like to drive) on a weekend (she doesn't like to meet on weekdays) in the evening (she doesn't like day meetings). Sure, I had second thoughts, but I liked that she controlled things, and she picked the places, and she told me where to be at what time (I follow easily). And the conversation lasted a couple of hours.

Yet, after the second meeting, which was an evening meeting in a mall, of all places, as we sipped tea (I always eat the same food as women order, so that I can taste the same things they're tasting), she got further into the particulars of what she wanted in a man.

I asked her some questions (she told me to shut up a few times, which is just fine with me) ... but ... the problem wasn't that. The problem was the lack of any reasonable answer to the questions. To make this short, in the middle of one of the many answers that I asked for, I concluded she was just a stupid bossy controlling bitch - emphasis on stupid.

From that moment forward, I really didn't want to have anything (sexual) to do with her.
The whole package just wasn't right for me.

Her answers to the questions were just not very intelligent, (e.g., "you should eat vegan" or "tea is better than coffee for you"), because, while having an opinion is good, when I asked why, the actual answer came back as something akin to pseudo-science or bro-science. I would have been happier with "because I said so", or, "I don't know ... I just like it better that way."

Point is, the "bossy controlling bitch" part would probably have been just fine, had she not also been stupid.
  • Bossy controlling bitch who is sexy and feminine is good.
  • Bossy controlling bitch who is stupid is not good.

    I still need to look up to and admire someone who is bossy and controlling.

    Needless to say, we won't be meeting again, except perhaps if she needs help with something (she asked me to help her fix an electrical outlet, which I plan on doing next weekend for her - but it's all vanilla).

    Aside: Did I tell her why? Nope. I couldn't, really. I simply said matter-of-factly "I don't think I meet all your conditions".

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Or maybe I'm just frugal. I don't like to give away free Domination samples. Insta-Domming is not a kink of mine.

    Dunno the right approach on that.

    Thinking about the free-samples concept for a moment ... hmmmmm.... I wonder ... maybe ... just maybe ... those "free domination samples" might actually be a good idea?

    Isn't that the basic "attractive" approach of women?

    I mean, most women, effectively, give out free samples of leg and boob (or at least a free peek at the product) nearly every day, don't they?

    Why do they do that?

    Those free samples must be working, right?
    I do realize (from another thread), that those free samples are TARGETED at attracting the guy they want; but my point isn't that.

    My initial observation is that this "free sample" thing ... is ... kind'a ... I mean ... it's kind'a what women do all the time. Isn't it?



    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    It's also a good way to screen out the "do-me"s, the ones who don't place much value on their offerings of submission, as well as the ones who think their 1-2 item specialty fetishes make them such a desirable sub catch.

    Thinking more than just a moment about this 'free sample' thing, it's really an ATTRACTIVE approach.

    In fact, it's a tried-and-true marketing ploy for ATTRACTING NEW CUSTOMERS:
  • Why Free Samples should be part of your Marketing Strategy
  • How to Effectively Use Free Samples to Promote Your Products
  • Free Samples Are Great Marketing Tool
  • What Are the Benefits of Samples When Marketing a New Product?
    etc.

    But, you don't seem to be wanting to attract (since you do that inherently), so, you need an approach tailored more for SCREENING OUT, right?
    When I think about this free-sample idea for more than a moment, I don't think it would work for you, since your goal isn't to ATTRACT but to SCREEN OUT, right?



    < Message edited by crumpets -- 2/28/2016 11:56:10 PM >

    (in reply to dreamlady)
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    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 1:41:29 AM   
    betataster


    Posts: 138
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady

    ...

    I'm really not being flippant. Owners exert control. They don't have to be control freaks, however.

    ...



    Great post, dreamlady. The above bit particularly resonated with me.

    I'm a dog person. I've had at least one dog for pretty much all of my adult life. People often tell me that I "always have the greatest dogs". Just a few days ago, my chiropractor called me a dog whisperer, something I've heard many times in my life. But I let my dogs relate to me, at least the dogs I form the closest bond with, in a fashion that many find disturbing or incomprehensible. I let my dogs get overtly aggressive with me - and only with me. With my late faithful companion of many years (below), we would play "gimme that bone". He would have a particularly juicy bone and be gnawing away at it and I would inch my hand towards it as if to take it. He would growl. I back away and then try again and he growls more convincingly. Eventually I would get too close and he would snap at my hand and grab it in his teeth. Then I would tell him he's won and let him go back to chewing his bone. But if I wanted to take the bone from him, all I have to do was reach over and take it. No problem. My current dog gets extremely excited when I get ready to go out because she knows there's a good chance that she'll go for a "ride in the truck". It's always a ride in the truck even if we're taking the car. Making a lot of noise and getting in my way and underfoot and quickly working herself up to the point where she's yipping and yapping and jumping up on my lap and snapping at my face. Yes, snapping at my face. Then I'll say sit and she'll immediately sit down and watch me intently, looking for the subtle cues that she can jump on me again. Like I said, disturbing and incomprehensible.

    My teenage son just a few weeks ago got his first dog. He lives with his mom in another state but we are very close. I told him that a dog is a blank canvas, formless clay, and will become that which he makes it with his will and his mind. It will become what words he puts into it, what thoughts he puts into it. I like my dogs to be dogs, strong and dangerous. I tell them they're strong and dangerous. I let them be strong and dangerous with me, but always with the complete understanding as to who is really in control.

    And that speaks to what I am looking for in a relationship. I would like to try being obedient to (submit to, worship, not sure how best to word it yet) a dominant woman. And I certainly like the idea of the (mutually exciting) kink that might go along with that. But I need a woman that recognizes and respects that I am a man, strong and dangerous. I ride motorcycles, jump out of airplanes, and eat food well past its expiration date. I need a woman that recognizes that I am a man, and wouldn't have it any other way.



    < Message edited by betataster -- 2/29/2016 2:35:18 AM >

    _____________________________

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    Nonsense, there's no such thing as a curse. - Famous last words #262

    (in reply to dreamlady)
    Profile   Post #: 10
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 2:43:57 AM   
    dreamlady


    Posts: 737
    Joined: 9/13/2007
    From: Western MD
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Or maybe I'm just frugal. I don't like to give away free Domination samples. Insta-Domming is not a kink of mine.

    Dunno the right approach on that.

    Thinking about the free-samples concept for a moment ... hmmmmm.... I wonder ... maybe ... just maybe ... those "free domination samples" might actually be a good idea?

    Isn't that the basic "attractive" approach of women?

    Depends on the woman. There are women (not a Dominant woman's strategy) who hope they can snag & bag a man by giving out free pussy samples. (They may not even realize that this is what they're doing. I won't even mention the other alternative, the one that a lot of guys mistakenly presume they can offer as sexual bait to get a woman interested in them.)
    From what I hear, it's a surefire backfire waiting to happen in many cases. In the short term, it may appear to be an effective seduction strategy; in the long term, usually not. (Definitely does not work as bait with me, the worn-out oral-servicing meme.)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    I mean, most women, effectively, give out free samples of leg and boob (or at least a free peek at the product) nearly every day, don't they?

    Some women do. Again, depends on the woman and either her degree of exhibitionism and/or the occasion.
    Also, you have to factor in social setting and cultural norms. Wearing hot pants or skintight clothing during an athletic activity or a casual outdoor BBQ, or wearing a revealing outfit on an appropriate occasion, is worlds apart from showing off the goods at a more demure function.
    At a formal event, there are fashion allowances for displaying cleavage, a bit of laxity with side boobage (shy of the nipple shot), the thigh-high slit (short of the panty glimpse), the bare back (barring any ass-crack peeking).
    Then there is always the potential for a wardrobe malfunction which isn't intentional.
    Plus, the motivation for a woman to appear physically attractive when she is already taken is much different than when she is still single or looking.
    But please, let's not go off into those tangents.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    When I think about this free-sample idea for more than a moment, I don't think it would work for you, since your goal isn't to ATTRACT but to SCREEN OUT, right?

    You nailed it. I know you won't take this as an arrogant quip, but. . .
    I don't have to give away free incentive samples.
    I'm not in the try-me-out-for-free business (nor the bargain basement discounted surplus item), and I'm certainly not looking for anyone to change brands.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    (Between you and me, though, I think he stood a better chance with me by keeping his clothes on!)

    That's probably because men and women look for (vastly) different things in each other when it comes to sexual turn-ons.

    I wouldn't say it is vastly different, depending on the person in question, more like varying degrees.

    Oh, and I was speaking specifically, not in generalities. Some men just aren't suited to be eye candy, with or without their clothes on.
    On the other hand, I'm not looking for eye candy either, in that I can take it or leave it. I can't do fugly, however (not that this dude was fugly, just saying) -- not aesthetically doable.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    Yup. He'd satisfy both his kink and his innate angelic good-Samaritan desire to please you, all at the same time.
    It's simply using his sexual needs to further your shoveling needs! :)



    Hey, at least this guy has enough sense to be wearing shoes. The other guy? Not a serious contender for getting any actual work done, all fetish and nothing more [than frostbite].

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    Point is, the "bossy controlling bitch" part would probably have been just fine, had she not also been stupid.
  • Bossy controlling bitch who is sexy and feminine is good.
  • Bossy controlling bitch who is stupid is not good.

    • Out-of-control and/or petty bossy controlling bitch/bastard-prick is another no-go zone.

    I'm sorry things took a nosedive for you, but I have to ask, why was there even a second meeting if you weren't feeling any fireworks?
    (You may have already committed yourself to helping her out with the electrical stuff, which you might feel obligated to follow through on as being a neighborly thing to do, but this could send her the wrong message, that you ARE in fact into her. I'm seeing it as leading the woman on, sending mixed messages; she may assume you are just playing hard to get, you incorrigible rascal. Little does she know what a show-off you really are!)

    DreamLady

    _____________________________

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    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 11
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 3:22:55 AM   
    dreamlady


    Posts: 737
    Joined: 9/13/2007
    From: Western MD
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: betataster

    I let them [pet dogs] be strong and dangerous with me, but always with the complete understanding as to who is really in control.

    And that speaks to what I am looking for in a relationship. I would like to try being obedient to (submit to, worship, not sure how best to word it yet) a dominant woman. And I certainly like the idea of the (mutually exciting) kink that might go along with that. But I need a woman that recognizes and respects that I am a man, strong and dangerous. I ride motorcycles, jump out of airplanes, and eat food well past its expiration date. I need a woman that recognizes that I am a man, and wouldn't have it any other way.

    I can't condone the going past expiration dates with food, but your point is well taken.

    Fortunately, not all Dommes want obsequiously servile men who can't think much for themselves.
    I'll hearken back to the leadership model.
    Some people just want to be in a position of leadership so they can throw their weight around. We've all encountered bossy incompetents, the insecure leader whose inflated ego must constantly be fed, the Pied Piper of sorts.
    Then there's the mental-emotional vampire who sucks the life out of others to fill his or her own vacuousness, the imposter leader, the imposter follower.

    Too many times, too many of us "settle" for second best. As long as you know you aren't shortchanging yourself, you'll stay on track with your intimate partnership goals.
    There are always trade-offs to be made in just about any relationship, but stick to aligning your panoramic priorities in life, in seeing the entire forest in its resplendent glory and not getting sidetracked by the regalia of trees.

    DreamLady

    _____________________________

    Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

    (in reply to betataster)
    Profile   Post #: 12
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 9:54:23 AM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    Isn't that the basic "attractive" approach of women?

    There are women (not a Dominant woman's strategy) who hope they can snag & bag a man by giving out free pussy samples.

    Actually, the free samples work, at least on me (as a sample "guy") they would work, hook-line-and-sinker.
    Why?
    Because "I" fall in love AFTER having sex.
    In fact, it's only in the refractory period that "I" start to think cuddly thoughts (if any).
    Before that, my mind is clouded by sexual fervor where physical things still matter.

    The funny thing is that those cuddly thoughts are often replaced by thought of a ham sandwich (depends on the person I'm with).
    So, only in the refractory period does someone get "my" unbiased attention or, only in the refractory period do I start to think about chewing off my arm to get out of there while she's still asleep.

    Either way - the free sample is a great way for a woman to 'get me' if she knew what I know about me.
    My only point is that the free sample works - but - it only works so far - simply because everything leading up to the refractory period is clouded by testosterone-fueled thought processes - while after the free sample has been given the taste test - the "buyer" can better assess the "product".

    Of course, all this is stated from the "buyer's" perspective - so your perspective as the "seller" is wholly different (I understand).

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    (They may not even realize that this is what they're doing.

    Just as Madeleine Albright doesn't realize how stupid she sounds telling women to vote for women or suffer the consequences of hell, I don't think many women realize what it is they're doing, just as many men don't. I think it takes intelligent women, like you, to see through men, and intelligent men, like me, to see through women.

    Together we can explain each other.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    I won't even mention the other alternative, the one that a lot of guys mistakenly presume they can offer as sexual bait to get a woman interested in them.)
    From what I hear, it's a surefire backfire waiting to happen in many cases. In the short term, it may appear to be an effective seduction strategy; in the long term, usually not. (Definitely does not work as bait with me, the worn-out oral-servicing meme.)

    This is so so so so very sad.
    Extremely sad.

    Sad for men, in general - but also very (very) sad for me in particular.

    I realize you're stating the truth, as women see it; but, the reason this comment is so very sad particularly for submissive men like I am, is that you must know that, on FL, I'm the principle proponent of starting a new group to change the name of the existing discussion group
  • SF Bay Area Pussy Lickers and girls who like to be ate out
    to something more grammatically correct and less sophomoric, such as:
  • SF Bay Area Pussy Lickers and girls who like to be eaten out
    or at least more respectfully appropriately:
  • SF Bay Area Pussy Lickers and women who enjoy being eaten out
    or, perhaps more classically:
  • SF bay area pussy lickers and women who enjoy cunnilingus
    or, eloquently:
  • SF bay area cunnilingus lovers

    Unfortunately, it takes an observant desireable woman like you to shoot us men down on what we perceive our added value to be to most women.

    Sigh. Oh the horror of it all.
    On your other pet-peeve tired ole' meme, it's a good thing you're wholly unaware of my charter membership in the similarly sophomoric FL discussion group
  • Hung submissive Men & The Dommes Who Will Use Them

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    I mean, most women, effectively, give out free samples of leg and boob (or at least a free peek at the product) nearly every day, don't they?

    Some women do. ... depends on the woman

    Nope.
    Here's where you need a man to explain women to you, despite what you say next to back up your "most-but-not-all" women demarcation.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    ...and/or the occasion...you have to factor in social setting and cultural norms.


    My experience, as a man, is that ALL women give out the free samples by the way they dress (that is, all women except those same women when they are DONE with this hide-and-peek game - which means mostly not matronly women but it means those matronly women when they weren't matronly - if that makes sense).

    Notice that you left room for women to play hide-and-peek based on the social setting (e.g., Halloween) and the occasion (e.g., Mardi Gras).

    Just as a child molester or thief who only does the act once or twice a year is still a child molester or thief, a woman who plays hide-and-peek once or twice a year (based on the occasion or the social setting) is still playing hide and peek.

    Put another way, if I sent you 365-1/4 emails, and in only one or two of them did I profess to have a big cock that you're supposed to be enthralled by and if I boast that I can make any woman on earth cum from cunnilingus, what would you think of me the other 353-1/4 days of the year?

    So, no. "fashion allowances" are not an excuse for the fact that ALL women (save for those matrons who are done with the game!) play the free-sample game of hide-and-peek.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    ... wearing a revealing outfit on an appropriate occasion, is worlds apart from showing off the goods at a more demure function...

    See above rebuttal.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    At a formal event, there are fashion allowances for displaying cleavage, a bit of laxity with side boobage...

    See above rebuttal above the above.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    (shy of the nipple shot),

    Aw. C'mon. No hiding the nipple!
    That's not fair!
    The rules are that the nipple has to be fair game.
    Otherwise, the whole game doesn't work!

    Geeesuz. Do we men have to 'splain everything to you'se womens?
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    ...the thigh-high slit (short of the panty glimpse), the bare back (barring any ass-crack peeking).
    Then there is always the potential for a wardrobe malfunction which isn't intentional.

    More the ditto for the previously aforementioned rebuttal...

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Plus, the motivation for a woman to appear physically attractive when she is already taken is much different than when she is still single or looking.
    But please, let's not go off into those tangents.

    Oh, now you tell me to not go off into the tangent of cleavage and buttage and leggage!
    Too late!

    We men respond to the game of hide-and-peek and you can't tell us not to.
    In fact, you (plural) invented the game, but you don't seem to even know the rules.

    We men don't realize that it's a game (for the most part) that we're willingly following (like throwing a bone over the fence and opening the gate so that the dog goes inside where he belongs) - but - at least we know the rules.

    At the risk of 'splaining the obvious ... here are the basic rules:
  • If you're gonna have a long skirt slit - you have to ensure the leg is shown as you walk or sit - but never all the time.
  • All the time is boring
  • You also MUST give the man a chance at MORE (like panty or upper thigh or at the very least, the dark line of the top of stockings ... SOMETHING tantalizing!)
  • If you don't HINT at something MORE, then the man will lose interest
  • If you play the game just right - and if you make it always look like an accident - you will keep his attention forever
  • Same rules apply with the hint of nipple in a loose blouse or the hint of panty under a short skirt as the hint of thigh illustrated above.



    < Message edited by crumpets -- 2/29/2016 10:05:34 AM >

    (in reply to dreamlady)
    • Profile   Post #: 13
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 12:20:35 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    I don't think it would work for you, since your goal isn't to ATTRACT but to SCREEN OUT, right?

    You nailed it. I know you won't take this as an arrogant quip, but. . .
    I don't have to give away free incentive samples.
    I'm not in the try-me-out-for-free business (nor the bargain basement discounted surplus item), and I'm certainly not looking for anyone to change brands.

    Lest you think I don't notice, I agree, you don't need to give out the free domme samples.
    I would think most women don't.

    It's we men who constantly boast we give out the free samples.
    And that doesn't work either. I don't think.
    (Does it?)

    So, maybe we need to put this free-sample tangent to rest.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    ... men and women look for (vastly) different things in each other when it comes to sexual turn-ons.

    I wouldn't say it is vastly different, depending on the person in question, more like varying degrees.

    Actually, if you look at the average male profile and the average female profile, I'd say the divide is vast.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Oh, and I was speaking specifically, not in generalities.
    Some men just aren't suited to be eye candy, with or without their clothes on.

    I've made the point in other threads that, even when "I" was suitable to be defined as "eye candy", it still didn't help me all that much (except at Fire Island, which we won't delve into here).
    (You have photos of me from those days so I would allow you to make that determination though as maybe I think too highly of my past physique - if so - just tell me so.)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    On the other hand, I'm not looking for eye candy either, in that I can take it or leave it.
    I can't do fugly, however (not that this dude was fugly, just saying) -- not aesthetically doable.

    Esthetics always plays a role, although I would argue the role is vastly different between, say, the appeal of, say, Henry Kissinger versus the appeal of, say, Marilyn Monroe to each of the sexes.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Hey, at least this guy has enough sense to be wearing shoes. The other guy? Not a serious contender for getting any actual work done, all fetish and nothing more [than frostbite].

    That's an interesting observation of sensibilities, given the guy other than footwear, is shoveling in an otherwise non sensible lack of attire.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Out-of-control and/or petty bossy controlling bitch/bastard-prick is another no-go zone.


    That's an interesting take on the original topic.
    Since you identify as Domme, do you find that you run into submissive "bossy controlling bastard pricks"?
    Or did you mean only the faux Doms?

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    I'm sorry things took a nosedive for you, but I have to ask, why was there even a second meeting if you weren't feeling any fireworks?

    She led the way.
    I followed.

    I don't think it was any more complicated than that.
    She actually would have been fine, as I was OK with the bossy controlling part.
    It's just the stupid part that I had trouble with.
    Her lack of intelligence didn't show in her writing only because her writing was to be expected.
    Nothing that stood out - but everything that was said was to be predicted.

    Unfortunately, in my testosterone-fueled fantasies, I easily allowed a pass for her lack of attention to grammatical detail.
    In hindsight, that's a tell-tale clue of stupidity.

    But, almost certainly, I'll make the same mistake again (and again, and again, and again).
    Followers let the leaders pick them.
    I didn't pick her - she picked me.

    I simply decided to cut my losses. That's my only say in the matter.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    (You may have already committed yourself to helping her out with the electrical stuff, which you might feel obligated to follow through on as being a neighborly thing to do, but this could send her the wrong message, that you ARE in fact into her. I'm seeing it as leading the woman on, sending mixed messages; she may assume you are just playing hard to get, you incorrigible rascal. Little does she know what a show-off you really are!)

    I'm not quite sure how to take that, but I was very clear in not responding to her on FL after that meeting, and when she asked why, I explained in the mail in an uncharacteristically curt message telling her that we're best off being friends, even though she had fully accepted my situation and she had formulated a way to make use of me that met her needs.

    The problem is/was that she doesn't meet mine.
    So, I'll help her, just as I help my neighbors set up their own WiFi antennas to suck WiFi out of the air from ten miles away; but that's gonna be about the extent of our interaction.

    Moral of the story?
  • Bossy controlling bitch = OK
  • Ignorant bossy controlling bitch = NOT OK


    (in reply to dreamlady)
    • Profile   Post #: 14
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 12:45:45 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    I can't condone the going past expiration dates with food, but your point is well taken.


    I realize there was metaphor involved, but taking that comment literally, and at the risk of 'tangentalizing things, it turns out that most expiration dates are not inherently meaningful.

    For example, the US government spent a lot of money on stockpiling drugs, which they found out by studies, all but the tetracycline lasted extremely well way past their expiration dates.

    Of course, some "perishables" (milk, bread, eggs, etc.) don't follow that rule - where they - and online relationships in general - perish after a certain "use by" date...



    < Message edited by crumpets -- 2/29/2016 12:47:44 PM >

    (in reply to dreamlady)
    Profile   Post #: 15
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 12:53:14 PM   
    WickedsDesire


    Posts: 9362
    Joined: 11/4/2015
    Status: offline     		Sets his huffing ether to one side (crumpets is allowed a snort or three – id snap that one up if i were a lady – but iam a destitute hobo who whiffs of 3 cats and gone to abject ruination epochs ago). Back to dear OP you have seen no such thing occur once, let alone may times....all else that follows can it be believed.

    Oh and bob is clone man

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 16
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 6:49:02 PM   
    AAkasha


    Posts: 4429
    Joined: 11/27/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: shiftyw

    Also- since I know the movie...

    Its set up like she drives him to cheating on her with hookers. When really- has he proven to the audience that he's trust worthy and worth her time? We don't know anything else of their relationship, and his friends AREN'T mature- they ARE gross- and he DOES go to a strip club.

    His choices are his- he chose to date someone incompatible with him, then whines and is shitty when it doesn't work out. Why is the blame on her for the failure of their sex life?



    I think this is a fascinating debate, thanks for bringing this up!

    Keeping in mind it's a juvenile movie overall so it's hard to really debate the motivations of the characters, I find your take on it interesting. We have no idea why "stu" is with a woman who treats him that way - and you are right, his friends are assholes, well, at least PHIL is -- Adam you can't really consider as he's a little "off" (and not really his friend) and Alan seems nice but is barely in the film.

    But remember, Phil points out that "she beats you!" and Stu says, "That was twice, and I deserved it. I like a strong woman." And every time she is on screen she is just plain BITCHY. And bossy. And, at the end, she's screaming vulgarities at him at a public wedding in front of kids. She's obviously cast as a stereotypical "BITCH" and I am not sure her behavior is defend-able.

    And the cardinal sin here is that he does flat out lie to her rather than stand up to her -- that's serious relationship flaw 101. If you are not even married yet and you have to lie to your partner about what you are doing because you know they won't approve or let you, then you need another partner or need to find common ground.

    Not to debate a totally ridiculous movie much more, but I think in "reality" the solution would be Stu would be honest with his GF and just not go if he loves her. He is putting his juvenile friends above her and lying to her. That's not cool.

    And as far as hooking up with an escort - the point is that he did that under serious drugs and it was not his typical behavior.

    Akasha


    < Message edited by AAkasha -- 2/29/2016 6:50:11 PM >

    _____________________________

    Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
    Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

    (in reply to shiftyw)
    Profile   Post #: 17
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 6:56:36 PM   
    AAkasha


    Posts: 4429
    Joined: 11/27/2004
    Status: offline
    Free samples, crumpets?

    Whether or not it's valid (I think in most cases, it is, especially with men who are still maturing), women often learn at a younger age that if you sleep with a guy right off, he will drop you. Men pursue. And, if you allow him to GET TO KNOW YOU before you jump in the sack (or, provide kink, as a "sample") you are more likely to allow him to develop a connection as he gets to know you.

    And despite how horny guys are, I do believe many - while wanting to jump into the sack - lose some respect for women that do just that.

    hey, if both parties want a booty call, that's just fine.

    But if a woman wants a guy to respect her, she may be better inclined to take it a little slower.

    Besides, if a guy sees you deliver sexual "goodies" without much connection, how is he not to assume you do that with ALL the guys you meet? And that's cheap and sleazy.

    My mom told me as a late teenager / pre college, seeing I was pretty AGGRESSIVE with men, "Men want a lady in public, and a slut in the bedroom" -- I don't think she used a derogatory term like "Slut" -- it might have been vixen or something like that, I can't imagine her saying slut. But the sentiment was there.

    She was concerned, after seeing me as MUCH more aggressive than my sister, and VERY eager to get my various kinks on, that I was "attracting the wrong kind of guy." I assured her I was not. While I was often PURSUING men in courtship, I did not sleep with them off the bat, or even give sexual favors. I got very used to saying earlier on, "Look, I'm pretty kinky. But that does not mean I am going to tie you up and give you a blowjob. It means we go at my pace and chemistry is a must. So don't start making moves on me just because you think kinky = slutty."

    Akasha

    Akasha

    _____________________________

    Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
    Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 18
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 10:27:54 PM   
    dreamlady


    Posts: 737
    Joined: 9/13/2007
    From: Western MD
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    Actually, the free samples work, at least on me (as a sample "guy") they would work, hook-line-and-sinker.
    Why?
    Because "I" fall in love AFTER having sex.

    No you don't. You feel a bond (or no real connection because it's lopsided, the emotional depth is lacking), partially because your body has released oxytocin bonding chemicals (similar to those released with nursing mothers which strengthens the bond between mother and child).

    The truth is, you may feel tender and loving toward your sexual partner, but this is worlds apart from being "in" love.

    If the sex was satisfying (in your case, I would also contend that your sex partner would have to appear to be satiated as well, or else you feel that you didn't do a good enough job to get patted on the head -- metaphorically speaking), then you find yourself feeling sexually infatuated. It will leave you wanting more, and you will desire having the opportunity to give an encore performance. If this women can stimulate you in other ways, without direct physical contact, then it can turn into a romantic infatuation. . . .

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    In fact, it's only in the refractory period that "I" start to think cuddly thoughts (if any).
    Before that, my mind is clouded by sexual fervor where physical things still matter.

    . . . Anything else aside from infatuation would be more accurately described as being "in lust" or having been lust-driven to begin with.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    The funny thing is that those cuddly thoughts are often replaced by thought of a ham sandwich (depends on the person I'm with).
    So, only in the refractory period does someone get "my" unbiased attention or, only in the refractory period do I start to think about chewing off my arm to get out of there while she's still asleep.

    I am going to insert an image, and if it doesn't display properly, will you please kindly fix it when copying it into a post of yours?



    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    It's we men who constantly boast we give out the free samples.
    And that doesn't work either. I don't think.
    (Does it?)

    So, maybe we need to put this free-sample tangent to rest.

    Only the easy ones just give it away to women who aren't their steady girlfriends or to those with whom they have no relationship commitment. I'm not gonna use the "s" word. :p
    Anyway, a lady (nor a gentleman) doesn't kiss and tell.
    Yes, let's give it a rest. The same goes for the whole revealing clothing issue.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    Either way - the free sample is a great way for a woman to 'get me' if she knew what I know about me.
    My only point is that the free sample works - but - it only works so far - simply because everything leading up to the refractory period is clouded by testosterone-fueled thought processes - while after the free sample has been given the taste test - the "buyer" can better assess the "product".

    Of course, all this is stated from the "buyer's" perspective - so your perspective as the "seller" is wholly different (I understand).

    I have just two things to say to this.
    One is, getting is not keeping, in much the same way as renting is not owning.
    Secondly, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

    Btw, we're using the analogy of buying and selling (goods and services) very loosely here. It's more like a sophisticated form of bartering, not limited to tangible goods and services.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    I won't even mention the other alternative, the one that a lot of guys mistakenly presume they can offer as sexual bait to get a woman interested in them.)
    From what I hear, it's a surefire backfire waiting to happen in many cases. In the short term, it may appear to be an effective seduction strategy; in the long term, usually not. (Definitely does not work as bait with me, the worn-out oral-servicing meme.)

    This is so so so so very sad.
    Extremely sad.

    Sad for men, in general - but also very (very) sad for me in particular.

    It's only a letdown if you're the type of man who has a drive-by mentality, or let me put it like this,
    Aside from the fact that there are women who don't enjoy oral sex (and I know I heard the earth shattering and caving in upon your head when you first learned that there are [kinky] women that exist who don't like cunnilingus , although I am not numbered among them), sex offerings being used as a manipulative device or as a seduction strategy is a big fail to certains segments of the female population.

    It goes without saying, as far as I'm concerned, that hit-and-run or try-me-out-for-size sexual encounters are anathema to me.

    Doing doesn't mean a man knows what he's doing or has the capacity to learn how to do it *right*-- usually when a man gets locked into techniques which worked on another woman (in bringing her to orgasm), he will assume that his tried-and-true methods will work on EVERY woman he gets with. This can range from how he French-kisses, the A-D of his linear foreplay, down to the motion of HIS ocean, despite his new partner's suggestions or feedback to the contrary. It's like trying to teach an old dog new tricks.

    Does this oral-sex bait tactic ever succeed? Where the pickings are scarce (which they aren't when it comes to submissive males, nor with vanilla men around my age or younger), and with a woman who hasn't had much experience with a willing partner yet.

    A man (or woman) who's famished or dying of thirst stranded out in the desert will take whatever he or she can get. But as Paul Newman used to say after he married Joanne Woodward, "Why go out for hamburger when you can have steak at home?" To me, that is a romantic sentiment.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    ...and/or the occasion...you have to factor in social setting and cultural norms.

    Notice that you left room for women to play hide-and-peek based on the social setting (e.g., Halloween) and the occasion (e.g., Mardi Gras).

    I rarely do Halloween or costume parties, and I've never done Mardi Gras. That isn't what I meant.
    Social setting has to do with appropriate dress, how casual or how formal the occasion, the norms of the group culture or subcultures.

    As to the rest of what you wrote, you are stereotyping. There's probably a better word for it, which is eluding me at the moment.
    You are like the blind man who feels an elephant's tail, and then declares that surely an elephant must be a snake.

    Further, many people like to play make-believe whenever they can shed their inhibitions, step outside of themselves by putting on a show, or to vicariously experience the lives of others.
    Actors do this for a living. If it's a good actor, then we the audience come to believe that the actor and the character he or she plays are one and the same. But they are not.
    (I'm sure you've heard actors bemoan getting typecast. Ah, maybe that's a better word than stereotype.)
    You are typecasting a person you see in a fleeting moment as being the entirety of what you believe they are oftentimes playfully representative of, a temporarily donned character suit where the outfit does not make the man/woman.
    This is not the same as a person becoming the sum of their parts when those portions (glimpses) are affected, when these are affectations which they are embodying once or twice in their lives, or on the rare occasion.

    That would be like saying that if you saw a woman exhibiting Dominant behavior a few times, that this would make her a Domme. She may take on a leadership role at work but be submissive at heart or vice versa. The same goes for many men.
    In fact, it is this same typecasting by submissive males of Dominant women that causes them to confuse Topping/bottoming and routine types of sexual activities as being "unDommely" in a Mistress. Harrumph. Their loss. Their monumental loss.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    Since you identify as Domme, do you find that you run into submissive "bossy controlling bastard pricks"?
    Or did you mean only the faux Doms?

    I identify as a Dominant woman, a Dominant lady to be more precise, and not a [FemDom] BDSM Top.
    I like to be as inclusive as I can whenever I can as long as it doesn't detract from the point I'm making, so yes I was referring to non-submissive men (e.g. maleDoms, male switches, vanilla men).

    DreamLady

    _____________________________

    Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 19
    RE: She's not a femdom. She is just a controlling bitch - 2/29/2016 11:34:38 PM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
    Joined: 11/5/2014
    From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    You feel a bond (or no real connection because it's lopsided, the emotional depth is lacking), partially because your body has released oxytocin bonding chemicals (similar to those released with nursing mothers which strengthens the bond between mother and child).

    Come to think of it that way, and, what you wrote makes sense.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    The truth is, you may feel tender and loving toward your sexual partner, but this is worlds apart from being "in" love.

    I don't think I've ever been "in love", I guess.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    If the sex was satisfying (in your case, I would also contend that your sex partner would have to appear to be satiated as well, or else you feel that you didn't do a good enough job to get patted on the head -- metaphorically speaking), then you find yourself feeling sexually infatuated.

    I can't imagine sex not being satisfying to the woman, but, yes, on the point of the oxytocin, I would agree that a chemically induced "infatuation" may be the order of the day in the circumstances I've described.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Anything else aside from infatuation would be more accurately described as being "in lust" or having been lust-driven to begin with.

    OK. Now you're talking my language.
    While I may not really know of "love", I certainly am extremely familiar with lust.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    I am going to insert an image, and if it doesn't display properly, will you please kindly fix it when copying it into a post of yours?

    No can do. That trick used to work, but when Collarspace went to cloudflare, they disallowed hotlinking across the two sites.
    (They probably didn't even realize it worked - so we should've kept it as our little secret.)

    The image is an image in your personal email which isn't accessible to me (or to anyone, other than to you).
    You can email it to me and I'll link to it here, but, it's probably not worth the effort unless it's really important.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Anyway, a lady (nor a gentleman) doesn't kiss and tell.

    Fair enough.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Secondly, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

    While I've certainly heard that expression, I must be different than everyone because, to me, that makes absolutely no sense.
    Of course I understand the concept. But I don't subscribe to it.
    I really must be different, because I think it's a phrase that applies to someone else, but not to me.
    Either I'm very different, or I don't understand my own motivations.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    It's more like a sophisticated form of bartering, not limited to tangible goods and services.

    Fair enough. There's something that is in demand, and it happens to have a certain supply, so, there's an inherent value equation, I guess.
    (I'm not really sure about it following typical supply and demand curves though.)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    a lot of guys mistakenly presume they can offer as sexual bait to get a woman interested in them.

    The problem with guys (self included), is that we think like guys think.
    And, a lot of the time, we act like guys act.
    I know it's strange - but that's what most of us guys do.

    If only we didn't think or act like guys, we'd be a lot better for you wimmins.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    (Definitely does not work as bait with me, the worn-out oral-servicing meme.)

    Again, it's guys thinking like guys.
    I know it's weird. But, for some reason, we think like guys think.
    For example, the world would be fantastic if wimmins thinked' like guys think.
    (Consider the possibilities: Wimmins offering the best blowjob, for hours on end, as their value added.)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    there are women who don't enjoy oral sex (and I know I heard the earth shattering and caving in upon your head when you first learned that there are [kinky] women that exist who don't like cunnilingus

    Say it ain't so!

    Pssst. I've actually heard that there are men who exist who don't like to receive oral sex. Dunno how that can happen, but, that just means there is one or more of everything out there.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    sex offerings being used as a manipulative device or as a seduction strategy is a big fail to certains segments of the female population.

    Drat.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    Doing doesn't mean a man knows what he's doing or has the capacity to learn how to do it *right*

    I never understood that sentiment, although at face value it makes perfect sense.
    However, you're supposed to TELL HIM how to do it.
    He won't get it right the first time - but you're supposed to TELL HIM what he needs to do to get it right.
    Or, at least you TELL HIM what he's doing wrong.

    Seems pretty simple to me.

    It's just like a math problem.
  • You don't know how to do it (it's all cryptic wimmens symbols and 'stuff).
  • She may or may not give you hints on how to solve the initial problem
  • And then you do the math problem
  • She (the teacher perhaps?) TELLS YOU that you got it wrong.
  • OK. So you got it wrong. No big deal. You ask why, she tells you.
  • You internalize why or what you did wrong it and you try again.
  • You're not gonna get it right - but you're closer to the solution than you were before
  • This is progress.
  • She TELLS YOU again what you need to do
  • You try the same problem again, only this time, you make fewer mistakes
  • She keeps telling you (grading you, as it were) on your mistakes (or on your successes)
  • You try a harder problem with her (different position perhaps)
  • Again, you get it wrong - but she TELLS YOU what you did wrong (or what you did right)
  • You try again, only you keep doing the things she tells you that you did right and you don't do the things she tells you that you did wrong
  • I don't know but how many iterations should it take until you get it all right and none wrong?

    My point is, that, just like solving a complex math problem, you can't help but get it right in the end if she TELLS YOU what you're doing right or wrong.
    Of course, if she doesn't tell you - and if she leaves you totally up to your own devices - well then, who'se gonna solve differential calculus equations on the first try?

    She has to TELL YOU to use the Laplace Transform which simplifies the complex equation.
    You just apply that Laplace Transform - which turns complex calculus into simple algebra.

    What's the big deal?

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    -- usually when a man gets locked into techniques which worked on another woman (in bringing her to orgasm), he will assume that his tried-and-true methods will work on EVERY woman he gets with.

    Well, OK. There's the problem.
    Doing that is like is like trying to solve quantum physics with Newtonian equations.
    Every woman is a new and very different math class.

    Techniques that worked for Ms. Algebra needs to be expanded upon for Ms. Trig, and there are definite limits when trying them out on Ms. Calculus.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    This can range from how he French-kisses, the A-D of his linear foreplay, down to the motion of HIS ocean, despite his new partner's suggestions or feedback to the contrary. It's like trying to teach an old dog new tricks.

    No. That's the wrong approach.
    It's not an old-dog approach.
    It's a new math class approach.

    The guy has to treat every single woman as he would approach a complex math class.
    You don't ASSUME anything when you're confronted with Maxwell's equations.
    You just figure it out, one by one, and unless you're Maxwell himself, you're just not gonna get it right the first, second, third, fourth, fifth (...) time.
    But, each time, you'll get a better handle on each of the terms!

    As long as SHE corrects HIM, he will get each term, one by one.
    No pressure (who can do math under pressure?) Not me.
    No pressure - just a constructive environment for learning how to solve complex equations.

    The APPROACH is the key. Not the technique (because the technique of solving each equation depends on the equation).

    (in reply to dreamlady)
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