quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

I still can't see the difference between the two, though, only because the Mental Domination part is where mental and psychological sadism comes into "play" on a consensual basis with one's counterpart maso who derives gratification from being placed in mental (and frequently concomitant sexual) torment.

Sorry Ishtar, but that membrane between causing emotional hurt and causing emotional damage is so thin, that you would have to be walking a tightrope along with the object you are toying with, the both of you together.
Doing so without a safety net which is virtually impervious doesn't seem very cool. If this is part of your (plural) melodramatic play dynamic, with elements of CNC that your mental maso partner IS cool with, then be edgy with your bad selves.

Of the many variations to cuckolding, for instance, mental torment seems to be a common thread throughout those, although the sexual torment aspect of cuckolding usually reaches a state of short-term closure before the next round starts up again.

But I (personally) cannot envision emotional sadomasochism reinforcing the foundation of nearly unconditional trust that two D/s partners should be progressing towards.

I don't mean to put you on the spot, but what kinds of aftercare do provide as an emotional sadist in a BDSM context or whatever else you might implement as precautionary measures so that you don't inadvertently do actual (and possible indelible) psychological damage of the PTSD variety?[/color]

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

From OP's update, it would appear that she never was on board with getting the life sucked out of her and being made to feel like an empty shell, and has found the courage once more to leave a dysfunctional mini-clusterfuck that does not meet her innermost needs, wants, and desires.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

For me, emotional masochism is cathartic. It actually deepens my bond with him. The mechanism by which this happens is roughly as following: "If he shows that he sees, knows, groks, understand my bad sides... everything that I don't like about myself... everything that I'm insecure about... if he knows the worst of me, and acknowledges that he knows the worst of me, and YET, still wants me, still wants to be with me, then I feel appreciated, loved, cared for".

It basically comes down to: This person really wants me... all of me, the good and the bad. They don't expect me to uphold a fake image that pretends to be more perfect than I really am in order to like me. They know me, REALLY know me. The know all the things about me that I really don't want anybody to know... and... they still want to be with me regardless of the bad.

That being said...

- It's extremely hard to do emotional masochism with me. Unless you know me extremely well, and know how to push my buttons, most of the stuff you could say to me wouldn't phase me at all.

- I am unusually insusceptible to emotional damage/trauma. I don't want to get into details around this, but I basically have Aspie like trades that make it so that anything you say to me, no matter how awful, isn't going to bother me unless it's actually literally and factually true. Therefore, doing lasting damages to me is rather hard, because I know myself extremely well, and generally like myself a lot (and am very self-confident) so even if you start hitting on the hardest stuff I don't like about myself, it's generally not really going to hit me THAT hard.

- I truly and genuinely don't give a shit what most people think about me, ergo, a casual play partner isn't going to be able to engage in emotional sadism with me, because I'm simple not going to care enough about what they say for it to matter.

So in order for emotional sadism to work on me, I have to care a lot about you to begin with, which makes it the cathartic experience of it being an affirmation that they care about me for who I really am, and not because they care about some idealized image they have and are pretending I am.

- Because I process it as an affirmation that they really care about me, the thing that they'd need to do if things do end up getting pushed too far, is affirm that they really care about me. If it would at some point really hit home too hard, afterwards what I'd need is a while of him showing me that he loves me more attentively than usual, and I'm pretty sure I'd be fine again. Like I said, I don't 'do' lasting emotional trauma easily.

- In a weird way, I think it's precisely because it's generally extremely hard to hurt me emotionally that I enjoy this type of 'play'. It's like I'm missing out on part of the 'depth' of emotional range that most people experience, and so I have a drive to 'make up for it', and push it to that point anyways... I don't really have a good way of explaining this exactly, because it doesn't really make sense to want the pain that you generally 'miss out on' instead of just being glad you don't have it... but it's the closest I can get to explaining why I want it to begin with.

I don't know if any of that maked any sense. But it's how it works for me, and why it's generally an extremely good experience for us both

But like I said to the OP, the above is are a whole bunch of caveats that explain why emotional masochism works for me -most of which won't apply to your average person- and why he knows that it works for me, and why he is fairly certain that he can predict what kind of reaction I'll have to it, and why for us it's a good thing in our specific relationship.

Ishtar, I get you on so many levels that we could be emotional doppelgangers, lol. For myself I will also add physical pain as well.

He knows me, everything, the good and the bad and he still wants me, despite those flaws that I see in myself. I wrote that same exact thing to him in my day journal. Who else will understand and accept me the way I am? But, he has never acknowledged that verbally to me. In my mind it is because he would always call me back to him. He wanted me with him again and again, even when I was crying, had snot coming out if my nose and looked as uguly as anything. Even though I was confused and uncertain. He will fix this won't he? He will make me stronger and more confident in myself, won't he? He's told me he would.

He showed it sometimes when we were together. Getting sprayed with the hose? After, he got down and wiped the mud off if my feet. A hard physical session? He would apply ointment on the wounds. But that is were the Humm affection ended. All I got was an I'll see you next time and here is a task for you while you are away.

I to am unusually insusceptible to both physical and mental damage/trama. I am like you, I don't care what other people think of me in general. I don't know you so why should I care what you think. You don't matter in my day to day life. Oh are you mad at me for something? You are in my space for maybe 5 minutes, go away. Whore, slut, bitch, humiliation, nice try.

Physical? I have such a high tolerance for pain it's ridiculous. Nipple clamps, tens unit, (that tickled a lot), whip, strap, needles, the list goes on. Next.

I had the thought that I was his challenge. How far could he push me before I called the safe word. Or will I ever call the safe word, because if I do then he will stop and I'll lose his attention.

But with him? He was my everything. While we were together I had his attention, his focus. As soon as he was finished, though? I had nothing. So I had to go back to get more? It's hard to explain.

Unlike you I have very little self confidence in myself. I'm not going to go into my past hurts here, lol, needless to say, this is where the backlash comes into play. I push everything to the background so I can function. I will swallow the pain and push on, trying to forget. But they come back to bite me on the ass when I least expect it. Writing it to him reopened wounds that while I'm by myself should never resurface.

Of course there is so much more that has happened and not happened. It is very hard to explain to others in a few words what the emotions are. The feelings and thoughts that go throw my mind. Maybe a subs mind.

Structure, focus, ( I had those ) acknowledgment, love, and care. No. It is amazing what a simple touch will give to a person that is willing to be and give everything for another.

Lady, I had to teach myself how to live in the real world. I have fought tooth and nail and learned how to be independant, pay bills, work hard, by making mistakes over and over again. Life's lessons never stop and I am strong in that it will not bring me down. I will always find a way out of a trouble spot because to give up in any life is to die. That took a long time to accomplish. And I am very proud in myself that way. I appreciate your words of how strong I had to be to let him go.

It made me feel like a million dollars, because it was so hard to do, but so worth it in the end.

blue

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Agreed. It's become very much a "my sadism, sensual, fluffy, whatever" is so much better than your type of sadism is better than yours type of post.

I'll have to differ with you on this, because I don't believe that's been the intent of anyone posting here, and would be of no benefit to OP or to others who have found themselves in a similar situation.

If I happened to give you that impression, then it's due to not sharing the same perspective. You (may) see yourself as an emotional sadist, among other things.
I see a fine line between emotional sadism and mental sadism. Both comprise psychological sadomasochism.
I have been a Humiliatrix in the not-so-distant past, but I always drew the line at the emotional-psychological aspect of mental-verbal/sexual humiliation.
I may be splitting hairs, but in order for me to be able to "get into" what I was doing (at my husband's behest), I had to compartmentalize these distinctions for myself or I wouldn't have been able to play this part.

If others don't see any distinction between the emotional and the mental, or the sexual, then perhaps it's because it's less of a roleplaying function for them than it was for me.
In other words, I could not humiliate and/or degrade, *for real*. Not better, not worse -- it is/was what it is/was.
And as such, immediate aftercare was mandatory for us, and then there was one other sub after him (who reminded me of my late husband, but not with the sub who showed me that I didn't have to engage in a humiliation & punishment dynamic in order to have D/s ownership). I haven't resurrected this "role" since then and I'm not looking to do so either. I can mentally dominate without including any of that in my arsenal. . . toolbox, I should say, and I don't feel the need for it. But that's just me. (Famous last words -- wait till I get a bratty, arrogant sub who needs to get taken down a few notches. . . .)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
From OP's update, it would appear that she never was on board with getting the life sucked out of her and being made to feel like an empty shell, and has found the courage once more to leave a dysfunctional mini-clusterfuck that does not meet her innermost needs, wants, and desires.

I totally agree with that. It's hard to judge online, because you never really have all the relevant information. But based on the little the OP has said, and reading between the lines, I don't think what he's doing is emotional sadism.
I think he's being an asshole who claims he's being an emotional sadist to excuse his general assholeness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
I'll have to differ with you on this, because I don't believe that's been the intent of anyone posting here, and would be of no benefit to OP or to others who have found themselves in a similar situation.

quote:

And as such, immediate aftercare was mandatory for us, and then there was one other sub after him (who reminded me of my late husband, but not with the sub who showed me that I didn't have to engage in a humiliation & punishment dynamic in order to have D/s ownership). I haven't resurrected this "role" since then and I'm not looking to do so either. I can mentally dominate without including any of that in my arsenal. . . toolbox, I should say, and I don't feel the need for it. But that's just me. (Famous last words -- wait till I get a bratty, arrogant sub who needs to get taken down a few notches. . . .)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady


Thank you, btw, for sharing what you did. It was eye-opening, and so was what mousekebob had explained as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavebluet

For myself I will also add physical pain as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavebluet

But with him? He was my everything. While we were together I had his attention, his focus. As soon as he was finished, though? I had nothing. So I had to go back to get more? It's hard to explain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Fr
Emotional Sadism seem to be like fancy word for what I think is part of verbal humiliation and verbal abuse.

So as with anything, do you need to feel hurt by bad words, just to be considered emotional sadism?

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
The OPs Dom ignoring her, and causing her mental suffering, can be a form of emotional sadism that doesn't include verbal abuse.

A Dom in a poly dynamic always favoring one sub over the other for sex, can be a form of emotional sadism.

A Dom sending his sub away, instead of allowing her to spend time with him, can be a form of emotional sadism.

A Dom refusing to let his sub eat the cake at her sister's wedding, or refusing to let her go out for drinks with her friends, or refusing to let her touch him, or refusing to let her speak, or ordering her to confront a phobia by picking up a spider, etc can all be forms of emotional sadism.

Whether they are or not, depends on the person is question. For me the order to pick up a spider wouldn't do much, because I'm not scared of spiders, for somebody who is scared of spiders, such an order can have enormous emotional impact.

The thing that makes something 'emotional sadism' is the emotional impact it has on the submissive. What does and does not cause an emotional impact is going to be different from person to person.

If a submissive is an OCD clean freak, ordering to not clean the house for a week might be emotionally devastating, ordering a slob to do the same thing will likely have no impact at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Wow, all these things are seriously hard limits to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I guess I just like verbal abuse as long as it does not hurt me, and not any emotional abuse at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Would any sub really enjoy these things?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

To feel so uncared for?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavebluet
His comments every now and then were a balm to me, a reassurance in a way. Good girl you are giving me what I want now tell me......

quote:

Master is a sadist. This includes being an emotional sadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: mousekabob

Being ignored doesn't bother everyone though. When Master ignores me I just figure he wants time alone or I think "Ok, I'll go off and do something on my own" because well...I like alone time. We both do. We drive each other absolutely batty when we're around each other for too long, like in this year's snow storm and stuck inside with each other for a week straight. I think we were both ready to kill each other! LOL

But if you are the type of person who needs to hear from someone all the time or be near them constantly, then make sure that you make that clear in any relationship you begin. This again, comes down to communication. Make your intentions and expectations to the other/s crystal clear.