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ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'.

...

which was exactly what was done by the imperialist conservative Reichskanzler Bismarck as part of his anti-socialist laws in the 1880s

Social security, state pensions, health insurance, invalidity insurance

this was conservative politics of the 19th century

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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Yes, you saying so disproves it absolutely. (ROFL).

OK< how about you list off as few of these "socialist countries"

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'.

...

which was exactly what was done by the imperialist conservative Reichskanzler Bismarck as part of his anti-socialist laws in the 1880s

Social security, state pensions, health insurance, invalidity insurance

this was conservative politics of the 19th century

The reason the law is called "anti-socialist" was to undercut rising support for socialism in Germany.
Dawson says Bismark sought to preserve the existing economic order in Germany, whereas the socialist sought to subvert the state and replace the capitalist order with a socialist one.

I suppose I do not really get the point of your argument. No one has said that social safety nets are not a good thing. That doesn't change that they are socialistic.

The fact that Bismark sought to introduce some social reforms is not really questioned. Nor is the fact that he was a nationalist, not a socialist.

No one has said that capitalistic societies cannot understake socialist actions. The co-option of healthcare in America is a socialist action. What, exactly, is your point?

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China (yes, I know you think its communist. Remember that under marxist theory socialism is the necessary precursor step, until all is perfected. Communist refers to the ultimate goal, not the current state.)

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Cuba

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Laos

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Vietnam

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Zimbabwe - Although with them its hard to tell. Mugabe says he's a socialist - but you could argue its just a cult of personality aka dictator.

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Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
... What, exactly, is your point?

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The point is that the label "socialism" has been used in abundance and without any detailed knowledge of what it means and includes in a simply derogatory manner far too often.

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McCarthy was an American phenomenon - so is the "socialism" label as it is applied here on P&R all over.

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The point is that the label "socialism" has been used in abundance and without any detailed knowledge of what it means and includes in a simply derogatory manner far too often.

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McCarthy was an American phenomenon - so is the "socialism" label as it is applied here on P&R all over.

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ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
... What, exactly, is your point?

The point is that the label "socialism" has been used in abundance and without any detailed knowledge of what it means and includes in a simply derogatory manner far too often.

McCarthy was an American phenomenon - so is the "socialism" label as it is applied here on P&R all over.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'.

Actually, not a core definition of socialism. Social democratic nations also seek to provide a safety net for the poor, disabled, and elderly, but do not own or control the means of production. Surely, you understand the distinction. Furthermore, a free market cannot function without the guarantee of order provided by a democratic or fascist government.

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'.

Actually, not a core definition of socialism. Social democratic nations also seek to provide a safety net for the poor, disabled, and elderly, but do not own or control the means of production. Surely, you understand the distinction. Furthermore, a free market cannot function without the guarantee of order provided by a democratic or fascist government.

And, how would a government that produces nothing on its own provide a,safety net if it didn't control means of production?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'.

Actually, not a core definition of socialism. Social democratic nations also seek to provide a safety net for the poor, disabled, and elderly, but do not own or control the means of production. Surely, you understand the distinction. Furthermore, a free market cannot function without the guarantee of order provided by a democratic or fascist government.

And, how would a government that produces nothing on its own provide a,safety net if it didn't control means of production?

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Of course socialism is central to the issue. Endemic to socialist nations is the promising of social benefits, and the idea of rejiggering society to be more 'fair'.

Actually, not a core definition of socialism. Social democratic nations also seek to provide a safety net for the poor, disabled, and elderly, but do not own or control the means of production. Surely, you understand the distinction. Furthermore, a free market cannot function without the guarantee of order provided by a democratic or fascist government.

And, how would a government that produces nothing on its own provide a,safety net if it didn't control means of production?

Govt. taxes the labor of production and some profits of production but does not 'own' the means of production except the labor in govt. and the military...which does produce or purchase the production of millions of people in labor and thus, billion$ worth of products and services and very, very expensively and often corruptly, so.

Without violating law of course, at least most of the time. No, fleecing the pentagon is quite legal.

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

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ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
... What, exactly, is your point?

The point is that the label "socialism" has been used in abundance and without any detailed knowledge of what it means and includes in a simply derogatory manner far too often.

McCarthy was an American phenomenon - so is the "socialism" label as it is applied here on P&R all over.

You are exactly correct. Socialism is defined as govt. ownership of the means of production.

But for political and specific plutocratic, economic interests, the word has been for about 40-50 years, propagandized and as a means to denigrate anything govt. does on behalf of society (the people) at large but is never to be associated with what govt. does for business even though, it does and even more so, to wit:

.....the creation of a word which now is 'socialized' as in socialized medicine in some countries. Where as the greatest segments of the western marketplace that has been 'socialized' is on behalf of business.

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You are exactly correct. Socialism is defined as govt. ownership of the means of production.

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And, how would a government that produces nothing on its own provide a,safety net if it didn't control means of production?

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If you can take from one producer at will, you control the production.

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vincwntml is caught up in his lexicon.