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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination?


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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 8:40:32 PM   
itsSIRtou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

So Awareness, Mormons believe that people were cut off from the Lords presence and were cursed with a "skin of darkness" (Nephi 5:20-22). It's not a far leap from there to putting up "Whites Only" on store fronts. Or maybe a religion where women are allowed literature but not math, so they don't have to hire females in certain traditionally male sectors? Where does it end?

I would like to see the day come when people finally realize that there is a difference between believing in God and believing in a book.

K.



and a book that's been edited several times from its 1st writing..... christians have the King James VERISION now...

_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 11:42:45 PM   
SunDominant


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quote:

thompsonx

1. Elaborate on the former.

The civil war

2. As to the latter,


The equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment.



Much better, the points you were making are now clear.

Though no expert, I have read quite a bit over the years on the pretexts to the Civil War, including perspectives from both sides, and do not see how that connects to a small business having the choice in who they will serve and who they will not. Are you saying that denial of service is the same as human enslavement, or is there an economic parallel here? The fourteenth amendment guarantees equal protection under the law, not in private economic exchanges (or lack thereof). If this were a case of a governmental agency, I would agree that the fourteenth amendment applies, but this a private business. Such a thing means little to SCOTUS however, especially in light of the very broad use of the "Commerce Clause" in rulings over the last century. Are you aware of a standing ruling that applies the fourteenth amendment to such a case?

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 11:59:40 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		FR

Dunno if this is still true in 2016, but here just in 2015, it says there are still 28 states where it's legal to fire someone for being gay.

https://mic.com/articles/121496/one-map-shows-where-you-can-still-be-fired-for-being-gay-in-2015#.DGX1Qi6jN

In light of this, this cake shop isn't the biggest issue here!

(in reply to SunDominant)
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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/18/2016 8:16:01 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

I only came on this thread because it said cake demands his cake
I feel it incumbent upon me to inform you that the cake is, indeed, a lie.



_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/18/2016 11:52:30 AM   
SunDominant


Posts: 136
Joined: 7/12/2016
Status: offline 		Most likely these are "Right to Work" states where it is not LGBT people being singled out, but that any person can be terminated for any or no reason, and an individual can quit a company for any or no reason. This does leave the door wide open for discrimination by the employer or employee. I gravitate toward Right to Work for a couple of reasons: first it defaults toward choice and accountability, and secondly the businesses and individuals who are discriminatory are quickly outed for all the world to see.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/19/2016 8:44:22 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: SunDominant
thompsonx

1. Elaborate on the former.

The civil war

2. As to the latter,


The equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment.



Much better, the points you were making are now clear.

Why don't you take your condescending attitude and stick it up your ass.



Though no expert, I have read quite a bit over the years on the pretexts to the Civil War,


Pretext????how droll. Perhaps you might get a clue as to the "pretext" by reading the articles of sucsession from the various states. They are pretty clear as to their "issues"


including perspectives from both sides,


Would you expect them to be similar?


and do not see how that connects to a small business having the choice in who they will serve and who they will not.


Can you see that it connects to the 12,13,14 ammedments to the constitution?



Are you saying that denial of service is the same as human enslavement, or is there an economic parallel here?


No.


The fourteenth amendment guarantees equal protection under the law, not in private economic exchanges (or lack thereof).


Hasn't the court ruled otherwise


If this were a case of a governmental agency, I would agree that the fourteenth amendment applies, but this a private business.


You are mistaken. It is a public business as it is open to the public and is licensed by the state.


Such a thing means little to SCOTUS however, especially in light of the very broad use of the "Commerce Clause" in rulings over the last century.


Either you believe that the court is valid or you do not. If you do not feel the court is valid why do you live here. If you believe the court is valid then abide by the law and don't try to find ways to evade it.


Are you aware of a standing ruling that applies the fourteenth amendment to such a case?

If you are not aware of the controling decissions in this issue then why are you wasting bandwidth and my time?
If you wish to discuss this please do not be obtuse or disingenuous.
You claim above that you are knowlegible of the courts "broad use of the commerce clause" and yet feign ignorance of the governing decissions concerning this issue.


(in reply to SunDominant)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/19/2016 8:53:33 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR

Dunno if this is still true in 2016, but here just in 2015, it says there are still 28 states where it's legal to fire someone for being gay.

https://mic.com/articles/121496/one-map-shows-where-you-can-still-be-fired-for-being-gay-in-2015#.DGX1Qi6jN

In light of this, this cake shop isn't the biggest issue here!


Actually the biggest issue here is your ignorance.
In my country any dip-shit politician can propose a law and if they have enough pull get it passed. If the law is unconstitutional someone convicted under it would then have to appeal their conviction to a higher court which would eventually say the law is unconstitutional. We saw on another thread where some local politicians thought they would make some guns illegal and when some one challanged it at the appellate level the law was overturned. Same with the anti gay states. When some "activist" decides it is worth the effort to 'buy a cake' in that state then the courts will strike down the anti gay statute.
Why has it not happened yet???It cost a butt load of money to go to court so one had best bring their cheque book and their lunch.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/19/2016 8:57:11 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: SunDominant

Most likely these are "Right to Work" states where it is not LGBT people being singled out, but that any person can be terminated for any or no reason, and an individual can quit a company for any or no reason. This does leave the door wide open for discrimination by the employer or employee.


How would the employee discriminate against the employer?


I gravitate toward Right to Work for a couple of reasons: first it defaults toward choice and accountability,


Just above you say it allows you to discriminate against your employee?

and secondly the businesses and individuals who are discriminatory are quickly outed for all the world to see.


When has this happened in your lifetime?

(in reply to SunDominant)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/19/2016 9:09:11 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"How would the employee discriminate against the employer? "

I have, and do.

T^T

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/19/2016 9:21:19 PM   
SunDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

{Insert insults and emotional rhetoric here.}



Amazing. Welcome to ignore.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/19/2016 9:35:44 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"How would the employee discriminate against the employer? "

I have, and do.


Just what do you do????inquiring minds want to know?

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/19/2016 9:38:51 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: SunDominant


Amazing. Welcome to ignore.


Ignorance seems to fit you like skin.

(in reply to SunDominant)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/20/2016 1:48:50 AM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"How would the employee discriminate against the employer? "

I have, and do.


Just what do you do????inquiring minds want to know?


About ten years ago I was one of the best electronics techs in the state. I have had many jobs, never had a problem getting one and never got fired from an electronics job.

Though I support their rights and everything, because of my experience I have prejudice. I will not work for Blacks, Jews or Women.

If you think my knuckles are dragging on the ground think again. One place gave me a test and I rewrote it. I beat 154 applicants for that job. And then after eight months decided to quit, and had another job practically immediately. In fact I already had the new job when I went to pick up my last paycheck, and it paid more.

In every other respect I treat everyone equal, but who I get in bed with or work for is subject to my personal approval. And from my experience I have excluded certain groups from my potential pool of employers. Maybe I a stupid for doing so but I do not believe so. I have had experience with all three and I do not want to work for any of them. You want the stories
? You got the time ?

T^T

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/20/2016 3:03:24 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		BTW, how can you possibly tell if someone is a jew or not?

There is no way I would know Bernie is a jew from physical appearance.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/20/2016 1:34:00 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Greta75

BTW, how can you possibly tell if someone is a jew or not?

Have you thought about asking?

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 135
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