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RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/21/2006 10:17:12 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Well said, Pissdoll!
(Love that name! lol)

(in reply to pissdoll)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/21/2006 11:32:56 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiliesDoGrow
The therapist I've seen are not kink aware and I've been embarrassed to put it on the table the exact nature of the relationship. (Although the attack was not d/s related.) Thank you for your kind offer. Please let me know through private mail where I can find these specialist? I think I'm needing to talk to someone who understands the dynamics of the emotional wounds.


Hi Lilies,

This link is for anyone who needs professional assistance and is looking for kink aware individuals, be it for medical care, counselling, lega services, etc.:

Kink Aware Professionals - http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap/index.htm

Best wishes and good luck!
- Geoff

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/21/2006 11:54:02 PM   
syreena


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/19/2005
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LiliesDoGrow:

Having read your post and several replies here there is a urging of my heart to recommend counseling and i'm in agreement with diamonddreamlove.  The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom (NCSF) has a web site http://www.ncsfreedom.org/
that lists kink professionals.  However; there are many professionals not listed that are kink friendly and i would suggest that should you not find one on the web site look in your phone book for a sex therapist and call and ask the main desk if the professional has a specialty in subculture sexual experience (at least i think that is the buzz words these days and if not explain).  i will also suggest that you talk with your primary care physician as you stated you are passing out and this is of great concern. 

As far as your journey in the lifestyle, i would tell you that it takes time to heal.  Master has had several abused women come into His Home.  He has helped many through very tough situations and of course i've always helped.  Please feel free to contact me on this site should you need to talk and just so that you know i'm a kink friendly professional social worker that's not listed with NCSF even though i'm a member.

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 2:20:49 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
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Panic attacks are underlying symptoms of depression.  Been there, done that.  Perhaps it might be helpful for you to be evaluated for depression and if diagnosed, receive adequate treatment.  I suffered from panic attacks for 20 years, partly because research on depression and treatment thereof were yet to be explored and partly because I couldnt accept my diagnosis once treatment became available.  I no longer suffer from panic attacks and havent had one for 12 years now.

Best of luck to you in the future and be well.  Trust in yourself that you have the strength to overcome the past, eventhough you cannot change it.  Always remember, nobody deserves to be abused for any reason.  You did nothing wrong.

LeatherBentOne

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 2:49:23 AM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
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'I place this query out to the brilliant posters of CM who show remarkable talent in sorting out stuff.
ETC..'

Minimize the situations which you are out of control.

Shine on you crazy diamond. (P. Floyd)

D (Owner of j).

_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 3:15:02 AM   
ClassAct2006


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
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You just need to choose well. If you are truly and naturally submissive then it's not a choice, although there's choice in whether you relate to men at all of course. So there's no dilemma. You might want a break from dating until you've sorted out the problems that you have but the main thing you can do is choose a man who isn't abusive, learn how to pick someone who is caring and loving as well as dominant.

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 4:17:49 AM   
GoddessSasha


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Joined: 3/13/2005
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ClassAct you said much the same as I was going to so thankyou for that.

Lilies, Noah was so right in his post. Particularly the last line, Lilies do grow.

Perhaps not much help but leaving that to others who are better at it than I for the moment. I too have difficulties to overcome, hence limiting my "play" to online and phone - not ideal for all but suits me at the moment, and those who dont accept it are welcome to move on.

You are, by your own words obviously a very strong person to have survived everything you have been through. You are a victim only when you are in the moment of being victimised, in my opinion of course. Once the actual event is over physically I feel really strongly that you become a survivor and in doing so start the long journey through the processes necessary for recovery.

Im in that journey myself so forgive the mushy nature of my words lol.

Just love, tolerate, accept and celebrate yourself. You will get there Lilies Im sure of it.

love n hugs
Sasha
x

(in reply to ClassAct2006)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 5:32:46 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
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Noah’s brilliantly written post has lots of common sense in it for you even if I don’t agree with it completely. He is right in that D/s will not cure you or anything and that you should seek professional help.

What I differ with is the idea that most Doms on this board will be out to use your emotional illness and leave you worse than you are now. I’m sure he was mainly warning you to be careful and not get into anything with anyone before you found professional help, but that came across as somewhat pessimistic about the lifestyle in general to me.  

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 6:13:22 AM   
LiliesDoGrow


Posts: 106
Joined: 5/15/2006
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Please forgive my mass thank you mailing. I'm so overwhelmed by the compassion you all have shown me. I didn't expect these kinds of responses and I appreciate each one of you taking time to respond to this post. I take to heart everything written to me here with the knowledge that better days are always just around the corner. The emotional support you've given me is incredible. Life confirming. See? I told you that you are brilliant!  I feel I need to add that I do live a full life and although the depression and panic attacks are ever present, they are more akin to an annoying sunburn as opposed to the third degree pain I felt not too long ago.
Last week I went on a four day camping exucursion. Just me and youngest unmentionable. Something I hadn't felt I could do for several years.

I was okay. Back to myself with nature's healing touch.

Although naturally submissive, I feel it's okay to not express this part of myself with another until I'm ready. Thank you all for  validating my words. You all mean more than I can ever express. I am looking up a KAP in my area and take it from there. Also you kind folks have given me courage to bring up the dynamics with the sweet young boy who counsels me for trauma. Maybe this will enlighten him so he can have a better understanding of people in our realm.

Noah. For a very bad man, you're quite the enhanced soul.

Be well everyone and many blessing to you all.

Lily.

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 8:38:56 AM   
Noah


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Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Noah’s brilliantly written post has lots of common sense in it for you even if I don’t agree with it completely. He is right in that D/s will not cure you or anything and that you should seek professional help.

What I differ with is the idea that most Doms on this board will be out to use your emotional illness and leave you worse than you are now. I’m sure he was mainly warning you to be careful and not get into anything with anyone before you found professional help, but that came across as somewhat pessimistic about the lifestyle in general to me.  


Now that Lily seems steadier I'll take time to thank all of those who appreciated what I had to offer, including you, ExSteel.



If you re-read my post (chapter 155, verse 42) you'll notice that my negative comments did not refer to most Doms or Doms in general. My comments referred to a very specific, self-selecting group.

That said, if one is suffering from blurrred vision and can't for the time being trust her decisions about which are the good snakes and which ones aren't, the presence of even a few deadly ones in a given field makes it prudent to quit turning over rocks there for a while.

Thanks for presenting the opportunity for me to slither back in and clarify that.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 9:07:59 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiliesDoGrow

I've talked to therapist about the attack, but it's difficult when they don't understand how deeply I had to go into my inner resources to release my well honed control in order to be the submissive that I felt this "man" deserved and desired only to be beaten up like piece of worthless meat.  It was the hardest decision I've made to this date to give over my trust.

How has anyone else handled a situation where they felt that perhaps they are too wounded for this "lifestyle"?



Yes.  I was never physically abused, but when I was very green, I put myself into the wrong hands and was horribly exploited, deceived, mislead, used and then abandoned.  I wont go into the boring details either, suffice it to say that  when this clown was done with me, it took me about 2 years to get my head back on straight. This was the first, last and only time, I ever took myself to a shrink.  I dont recommend it.  They really dont understand.  I think you're better off talking to other Ds people who have an understanding of the emotions and level of trust involved in wiittwd.  
Now, this joker treated you like a "piece of meat", right?  I hope you realize that is a reflection on him, not you.   You are not a piece of meat because he treated you as such.  You are still the same person you were before this scumbag put his hands on you.  You made the wrong choice, thats all.  You chose the wrong person to give your trust to.  That doesnt mean you should be gun shy to trust in the future. It just means you need to chose more wisely next time.  In the meantime, I would suggest not seeking anyone right now.  Just take some time to baby your wounds and get your head back together.  Take support from your friends or from anyone who will give it.  It really does help.  Then when you feel ready, you will be more equipped to make a better choice in who you decide to submit to.  Sometimes in retrospect you can look back and see where you had a funny feeling, or a bad vibe when getting to know someone.  Learn to trust that inner voice and let it guide you the next time in deciding who is worthy and who is not.  In the meantime, remember this.  Its the one worthwhile thing my shrink told me and I'll never forget it.  As simple as it is.  "We think intense feelings are going to last forever, but they dont". 
In other words, as horrible as it may feel today, it will pass.  Trust me, it will.

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 9:08:12 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiliesDoGrow


How has anyone else handled a situation where they felt that perhaps they are too wounded for this "lifestyle"?



First let me offer you a HUG. I can understand on several levels what you have gone through.

Second leet me say that when I finally was safe enough to start dealing with my childhood abuse I stopped feeling toppish let alone dominant for about two months. Somewhere inside I felt like I had allowed myself to become my abusers.

I had a great therapist whom I was completely honest with about everything and who told me several times that I was nothing like those bastards who had abused me as a child. I slowly started to do BDSM again and soon realized that my therapist was completely correct.

Unfortunately that is the opposite issue that you are having. I can only say that having owned and trained other survivors that I have some empathy.

First, please try to be completely honest with your therapist. If they can't handle it or are judgemental, then move on and save your money. Better to learn soon so you can find a good match and get the assistance you need.

Second, while we can interprete our abilities to survive, control our emotions and being self reliant as being strong, I've learned that it can also be a way that we replay our abuse out from day to day and let the abusers continue to control us. This was my most difficult lesson I learned myself. I still get very disappointed somethings when I feel things but having moved onto feeling and remembering what it was like to be so in control that I didn't feel, I'll keep the feelings thank you.

Third, it is so empowering at first to blame ourselves when we are abused again. If it is our fault we can do something to stop it next time. Sometimes we can. Abusers can be very clever, that's part of the reason they keep abusing, and some of them can bide their time and will actively seek out the "healed" to try and damage them -- I guess it makes them feel powerful or something.

That person who betrayed your trust and harmed you sounds like one of these clever abusers. He made his choice and behaved as he wished -- this will be very hard to do, may take months or more to be able to understand this, but he was going to abuse again and he was planning it out well. It had nothing to do with you at all for him, it was all about him, him, him. By placing the blame on yourself, you are giving him more power because you are acting as he wanted.

Want to harm him and help yourself? Work on placing that blame where it belongs -- ON HIM.

*HUG* (if that is ok)

Finally I want to say that you are not alone in BDSM, in vanilla, or in any other part of life. Yet what you must go through will feel very much alone. It is important to find a good therapist, to turn to your spouse, and to find support where you can as you reclaim your strength and hopefully go on to greater levels of strength.

Thank you for sharing this.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 10:22:34 AM   
ArtimisBlack


Posts: 154
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
To the OP:
Lacking personal experience of what you went through, my mind, though I'm in agreement with the previous posters, keeps turning back to the person who did this to you. I wonder if you have sought justice against him. I hope you have, he deserves...well, I'm sure you already know what he deserves. I know I personally have problems getting over the things people do to me (the serious ones anyway) without seeking justice to redress the wrong. For me it's important not because I need revenge, but because they should know that not only was what they did wrong, there are also consequences for their actions. So if you haven’t already, please do seek justice. At the very least it will help prevent this person from doing this again to somebody else. Hopefully this, in addition to the wonderful advice everyone else has given, will also help your piece of mind.  I wish you all the best and hope your future is bright and peaceful. Feel free to write me on the other side if you ever need a listening ear and an open heart.

_____________________________

I wanted to put in my 2 cents but I only have a dollar. Do you have change?

The pain is free. Do not pick the scab.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 11:40:24 AM   
heartfeltsub


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Like Tammy Jo, my time of not being able to do this was when i was healing from the sexual abuse that i went through as a child, and her words about placing the blame on the people who have abused your trust are well said.

The reason i say that, is because those of us who have lived through abuse of one kind or another tend to blame ourselves. It may be buried under piles of anger and rage, but it is usually there, that stupid lying voice that tells us it is our own fault, regardless of our age, regardless of the circumstances. And that lying voice usually brings with it depression and self-doubt along with a host of other ills. Please do not listen to it.

(in reply to ArtimisBlack)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 11:50:00 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiliesDoGrow

Without going into brutal boring details, I was assaulted and left for dead several years ago by a man I felt I could trust with my being. I knew him for three years. As soon as I let down my guard, placed my trust, love, heart, submission in his hands, he turned into a different person. (Yeah, the story that never ends.)

Since then, I've suffered severe panic attacks to the point of passing out. Although I am on this site, (mostly enjoying the forums and the wisdom written here,) I am absolutely empty inside where it comes to wishing to submit to a man ever again. Which surprises me because I usually can bounce back from adversity. I'm mad at myself for allowing another to cause my spirit to diminish .I'm angry, hateful, teary and depressed most days with this feeling of dread and hopelessness that never goes away. I've talked to therapist about the attack, but it's difficult when they don't understand how deeply I had to go into my inner resources to release my well honed control in order to be the submissive that I felt this "man" deserved and desired only to be beaten up like piece of worthless meat.  It was the hardest decision I've made to this date to give over my trust.

How has anyone else handled a situation where they felt that perhaps they are too wounded for this "lifestyle"?

(Forgive me. I've not worded this post how I wish my feelings to come across. Part of my problem since the attack is the inability to communicate on the level I was able to prior to my injuries. I hope I made some sense.)



Oh, you needn't worry. "Lacking submissive hunger" is a quality I'd associate with many proud wolves in sheeps clothing running amok in the lifestyle. You say you often bounce back from adversity, and this is good, though I would inquire as to how and why.

The cruelty of abusive conditioning—particularly in formative years—lends one to be somewhat powerless before those with domineering personalities, more so when these personalities are, by virtue of persona or consciously cruel act, associated with traumatic events familiar to that conditioning. The nefarious and cunning often take advantage of this predisposition, either consciously or unconsciously. Predation will either manipulate with further cruelty or will don a pleasing mask, to coddle and nurse the dark seed put in you by a past trauma.

Personally, I would suggest you tread carefully among those men who would dominate you. Question if your perceived choice and free will is indeed thus. Observe what draws you and what is drawn to you. Work to reassociate yourself with a fully sovereign desire before seeking out one to serve, otherwise you may run the risk of idolizing in a man the very spirit that is your ruiner.

If the past is truly past, let it rest, and not allow its ghost to steer you directly back into the path of what you fear. This is easy enough to wave away, but that is part of the insidious design. For if one conforms or proudly rebels, it makes little difference; one is still so often under the power of what is hated. Returning to fully owning your motives and objectivity is the key, but this is so often a slippery slope. Those who do not undertake this with due reflection and heed will fall. They do so all the time. ;)

I wish you well.

(in reply to LiliesDoGrow)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/22/2006 12:00:33 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Noah’s brilliantly written post has lots of common sense in it for you even if I don’t agree with it completely. He is right in that D/s will not cure you or anything and that you should seek professional help.

What I differ with is the idea that most Doms on this board will be out to use your emotional illness and leave you worse than you are now. I’m sure he was mainly warning you to be careful and not get into anything with anyone before you found professional help, but that came across as somewhat pessimistic about the lifestyle in general to me.  


Now that Lily seems steadier I'll take time to thank all of those who appreciated what I had to offer, including you, ExSteel.
If you re-read my post (chapter 155, verse 42) you'll notice that my negative comments did not refer to most Doms or Doms in general. My comments referred to a very specific, self-selecting group.
....Thanks for presenting the opportunity for me to slither back in and clarify that.


Thanks, Noah, I was beginning to think I was a bad guy for being a Dom :).

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/23/2006 1:55:56 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
This is a wonderful thread, and I must say I am taking this all in, and see what seems to be much excellent advice here, but have no advice to offer specifically. My heartfelt good wishes for Lilies' future, though, certainly. 

P.S. I wasn't trying to insult you, Noah, if I did. By me stating: "I am not one of the Bad People" to Lilies, I just wanted her to know that I have some familiarity with (not tons, but a little) working with abused folk (and mostly children, so my experience may not apply to her at all anyway), so that, if it crossed her mind, she could maybe be reassured I have no "agenda" re: My comments on this thread. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/23/2006 2:36:52 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Lacking sub hunger - 7/23/2006 1:33:40 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
late comer to this thead... but honestly after reading what has been said... no reason to add anything to the OP...

but I said it before and I will say it again... It's good to have Noah back here.... We would surely be missing some incredible insights like the one he gave in this thread. 

Noah... again thanks for coming back.. you were missed and you post here shows why!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 38
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