From: UK, Manchester
I have always held the opinion that breaking is bad & therefore goes against my views of what is / is not acceptable.
Question. Who decides what is good or bad for you? I love being pushed hard. If I say it's ok to break me and you don't trust me with it, it just shows a lack of trust IMO. You have your limits, I have mine. Mine just happen to be "In the deep end". If I'm not punished hard, I get away with shit. If I get away with too much shit, I risk hurting people unintentionally. Which is worse? I have a saying and it's a simple one. "Loyalty over morality". I also have "If you can't accept me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best". For me worst would be "Being broken". People break in general. I'm there if I care. Some people broke me in general in the past. Those turned out to be the ones that actually cared the most. Back then it was in the bad/forced way. Now I'm into "Forced" things and being pushed hard. I like it. I take the bad with the good of things. It's needed and wanted. As long as it is established "It's ok to force things and break me because I need to be" then it's fine. Hell, maybe I need someone to do that to know they care enough to look after my needs. Which some people do. There's more detailed and personal reasons but you get the idea.
Now don't misunderstand what I mean by this. I'm me. You're you. we're going to be different. It can be ok to push ME in that way even if it's not ok to push OTHERS (or you). I am NOT others. Others are not you either. Are you perhaps then magically deciding what is acceptable or not for me? Without my consent? Comparing me to others? Others you care about to me? Everyone's different. You do not know what is acceptable or not until you "know" with X person here.
Going to point out the obvious here. Check in. Everyone's different. It's ok to push me hard with trusted company that I know, even if they're very different with most other people. It's not ok for someone else to do that if I don't know or care about them enough for it to happen. That shit needs trust. On both sides. "I need the harsh stuff because it's bad (harsh punishments as an example) AND good (Harsh punishments can lead to intimacy)" is different then "Random stranger forcing just bad stuff on you".
Allow me to explain how "What affects me/you" works. Someone once tried to "Spare my feelings" because they thought they "knew better for me" about how to be "nice" to me. Pro tip: If you're tying to spare my feelings instead of being honest I'm taking issue with it. It was with good intentions but it was HURTING me. Not HELPING. Get it now? Treat me all "Acceptable for most people I know" instead of "Checking in with me" and I'm taking issue with it. That same person stopped sparing my feelings (which I appreciate) and ended up as an owner. "Harshness" was a barrier but hey, no one's perfect and they try. Trying gets results. Now they're good at it "With me". Me. Not "With others". not "Most people". It's acceptable "For us". Even if it's not acceptable for "Them". There's only ever one "between us" between two people. Even if everyone else can be an "us" to someone we know. We are NOT all the same because we're all different. Because everyone's different. And we treat everyone differently wherever we like it or not. Unless you're saying everyone has the same needs. Which of course would be silly.
There's also such a thing as "Treat me in the ways I need and is acceptable for me and I'll treat you in the ways you need which is acceptable to you". Doing the "Acceptable thing" for each other. Harshness for cuddles. Yanking the leash for stroking a cheek. Etc. You don't need to be "the same". You just need to look after each others needs. And trust each other that it's not a "bad" thing to do with each other. That it's even "good" because of the company.
Or you can go "I know better for you. This is not acceptable/wrong period". But where has that ever gotten anyone? Maybe when done to you. But not to me. It's not "wrong" if you do it when I "want" it. It's only "wrong" when you either don't trust me (Because mistrust) or try to force a harsh thing (As in forcing yourself to do it. You need to "want" too).
Also gentle things can be JUST as bad as harsh things. People have tried to force those things too. Never ends well in my experience. Forcing "Gentle" or "Harsh" on others. X has needs, but Y ALSO has needs. Don't drown them in your own stuff alone.
To answer the question, it's safe if someone says it's safe and they're honest about their "breaking point". Which could well be "no line drawn without safe word". You will either TRUST them on that or you will not. Just, you know, find out why either way. I don't know who you know. I can not speak for them. If you don't push hard enough you could be neglecting their needs. Push too hard and it can send them over the edge. Check in. it's safe when you check in often until things are established. Do you need to push "more" or "less"? Or just "in a different way" or "A combination of ways"? All different depending on "Who you ask".
< Message edited by Taramafor -- 8/27/2017 8:59:00 AM >