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UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 6:19:05 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Fatal shootings by police officers have been a major political issue in the United States in recent years. From Michael Brown in Ferguson to Freddie Gray in Baltimore, such killings, often of young African Americans, regularly lead international news headlines.
One counting project found 613 people had been killed by US police so far in 2016, as of 28 July. American police routinely carry guns, and most high profile incidents are shootings.

Official figures in the United Kingdom could not paint a more different picture. Statistics released by the Home Office – Britain’s interior ministry – show how rare it is for the UK’s police to use guns.
In England and Wales in the 12 months to March 2016, British police discharged their firearms on just seven occasions, the statistics, released on Thursday show.

This figure is actually a record, of sorts. In the same period ending in March 2013, firearms were used only three times. In the 2015 period they were used six times. Seven uses of weapons is the highest since at least 2009.
Britain’s police do not routinely carry firearms; instead, specially trained firearms officers are rapidly dispatched to incidents where a threat is reported.

Heavily armed police can also be found guarding places perceived to be likely terror targets, such as airports, government buildings, and major railway stations.

There is no equivalent overall count for the number of times police used firearms in the United States; their use is considered routine.
Protests against police killings have been common in the US in recent years (REUTERS)

The Home Office notes that the statistics do not include so-called “animal destruction”, accidental discharge of guns, and – intriguingly – the shooting out of car tyres in police chases.

The number of police officers authorised to use firearms has also been falling in a long-term trend. In 2009 there were 6,906 such special officers in England and Wales; in March 2016 there were just 5,639, with a decline recorded in almost all intervening years.
The number of times armed police were actually deployed in England and Wales in the 12 month period was 12,471 – broadly flat on last year in the context of a long-term decline. But decisions on whether to open fire tend to be made through the chain of command, meaning even when police with guns arrive, a shoot-out is rare.

The United States of course has a bigger population than the UK – Britain has 64.1 million residents, the US 319 million. But on a per-capita basis, Britain’s rate of police gun use would translate into US police using their guns on 35 occasions in an entire year. This would be an unthinkably low number.

The overall picture in Britain doesn’t mean police shooting incidents do not happen. The fatal shooting by police of 29-year-old Mark Duggan in 2011 prompted an inquiry and criticisms of misconduct. The shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes also provoked controversy. Campaigners have also long highlighted statistics showing a pattern of deaths in police custody.

But the scale of such killings is undoubtedly of a different order to that in the United States

I read that today and thought I would share as the actual figures are almost impossible to come by

Obviously, and my thoughts are well known, I see the availability/atttude of guns as the root cause of the disparity



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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 8:14:52 AM   
kdsub


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Guns do make the difference... But using figures like 612 killed by police puts them in an unfair light... All but a very few are justified by their duty to protect the rest of us. But when every crook has a gun police will be far less tolerant and much more likely to use their weapons to protect their own lives. Police are no better or worse here than in the UK they just face different circumstances.

Because of the population difference and the 9000,000 plus law enforcement members you will have more bad police. No one is saying police are perfect...But again using the Brown and Gray cases are the wrong examples as the police were well within their rights and just performing their duties when faced with aggressive criminals. The courts correctly agreed despite unfair prosecution.

But there are and have been bad police and poor training and if nothing else the BLM has put pressure on law enforcement to increase training and weed out bad cops.

The bottom line to me is we should not expect police to solve our social problems... They are not the blame for high crime in black neighborhoods and they have no choice but to enforce the law.... even if that means more blacks arrested then whites. As far as police are concerned they should enforce the laws we mandate no matter the skin color.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/31/2016 8:18:08 AM >


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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 8:24:14 AM   
Awareness


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The same applies to all countries with gun control. Australia and New Zealand police also don't have to shoot people very often because very few citizens carry guns.

Simple, really.

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 8:38:40 AM   
bondageerone


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just for a change I agree, as I joined the Police at 18, and still there, do actually carry a gun now, the last thing I hope, is I do not have to use it, and we do not aim to kill , just bring the criminal down. xx

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 8:43:05 AM   
WickedsDesire


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kdsub I did omit eg – if I was tooled up with a Tommy gun, bazooka, doomsday device - in Tesco’s, and worrying the muffin aisles, whilst looking a bit black and shifty..whether our boys in blue would indiscriminately gun me down.

Awareness got the point...the absurdity of it all...and yet that is how it is


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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 8:47:36 AM   
kdsub


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If you are a smart ass and resist arrest and put a police officers health in danger... yes... good bye and good riddance. But if you are reasonable and respectful and mistreated then sue away.

Butch



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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 8:55:47 AM   
WickedsDesire


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kdsub America and UK are not dissimilar - so I usually compare both...and there seems to be a vast disparity

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 9:00:06 AM   
kdsub


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How can you say they are not dissimilar when you rightly point out the difference in gun ownership? Facing a criminal with a gun is very different then without one.

Butch

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 9:01:08 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How can you say they are not dissimilar when you rightly point out the difference in gun ownership? Facing a criminal with a gun is very different then without one.

Butch
Well Butch, I think it's been demonstrated quite clearly over the last few months, that American police officers are quite happy to shoot you, even if you're unarmed.


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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 9:14:10 AM   
kdsub


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Unless I am mistaken in most every case the victim was resisting arrest. I've said before police have no choice but to use as much force as is needed to make an arrest.

Believe me I want bad cops prosecuted... if they abuse their power I want them brought to justice. But railroading an officer because he is forced to use his gun to subdue even an unarmed criminal resisting arrest is wrong.

I see nothing wrong with protesting police shootings if the police are not forthcoming in releasing information.

And as the officer that shot a victim in the back when his life was not in danger he needs to be prosecuted as the criminal he is. But he does NOT represent the vast majority of police officers.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/31/2016 9:16:09 AM >


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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 9:24:52 AM   
igor2003


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

kdsub America and UK are not dissimilar - so I usually compare both...and there seems to be a vast disparity


A few years ago I posted on one of these threads, a study comparing crime in the UK and the US. There were not only the usual statistics of things like gun deaths per capita, strong arm robberies per capita, drug arrests per capita, etc. and etc., but there were also survey questions asked of the citizens of both places. One thing I found interesting was that citizens in the UK had less faith in the ability of their police to protect them, and another thing I found interesting was that US citizens were less afraid to walk down the street at night. Make of it what you will. I lost the link to that long ago. If I still had it I would gladly post it again.

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 10:15:38 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Unless I am mistaken in most every case the victim was resisting arrest. I've said before police have no choice but to use as much force as is needed to make an arrest.
You're mistaken. How could you miss the unarmed black man lying on his back with his hands in the air? Shot for not resisting arrest.

Or the white kid SHOT IN THE FUCKING BACK by an emotionally unstable police officer who lost his shit because the kids was wearing headphones, listening to music and didn't hear the officer's crazed instructions to stop.

Or the black man in his car reaching for his fucking wallet, shot by a cop for.... reaching for his wallet.

No. They are not shot for resisting arrest. The police force has a major fucking problem with unstable and racist police officers who shouldn't be issuing parking tickets, let alone given a gun.


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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 10:29:33 AM   
WickedsDesire


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I will actually whip out my cock and you will be enthralled by its might...legend has it it cashed the internet even in jpeg format....glory be stuff eh!t.and gurgle its glory thy will..the rest I will sell for a foosty biscuit

Now, army of neophytes present yourself unto I now and talk to me of wickedthrobgobblers and you will get down on bended knee and call me the one true god and sing me a song harking or 50 gallons of my hot cum

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 10:46:12 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

All but a very few are justified by their duty to protect the rest of us.
Butch



LIAR or DUMBASS which is it?

they have NO duty what so ever to protect you, and that comes from the supreme court.

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 2:50:39 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bondageerone

just for a change I agree, as I joined the Police at 18, and still there, do actually carry a gun now, the last thing I hope, is I do not have to use it, and we do not aim to kill , just bring the criminal down. xx

I have spent most of my life around U S cops, and I can assure you they don't want to ever have to pull their weapons.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 2:52:38 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How can you say they are not dissimilar when you rightly point out the difference in gun ownership? Facing a criminal with a gun is very different then without one.

Butch
Well Butch, I think it's been demonstrated quite clearly over the last few months, that American police officers are quite happy to shoot you, even if you're unarmed.


No it hasn't, but it has been demonstrated that there are many people here who are quite happy to ambush and murder cops.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 3:00:06 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Unless I am mistaken in most every case the victim was resisting arrest. I've said before police have no choice but to use as much force as is needed to make an arrest.

Believe me I want bad cops prosecuted... if they abuse their power I want them brought to justice. But railroading an officer because he is forced to use his gun to subdue even an unarmed criminal resisting arrest is wrong.

I see nothing wrong with protesting police shootings if the police are not forthcoming in releasing information.

And as the officer that shot a victim in the back when his life was not in danger he needs to be prosecuted as the criminal he is. But he does NOT represent the vast majority of police officers.

Butch

Unfortunatly the cops cannot release information until they sort things out so by the time they can the spring has been poisoned by the cop haters.
BTW I agree that bad cops should be prosecuted.
The cop in the Gardner case for example was, in my opinion clearly guilty of excessive force, misconduct, and most likely manslaughter. Unfortunatly the headline grabing prosecutor insisted on going for murder 1 which was totally unfounded so they got nothing. Much the same with gray, there may well have been charges that should have been laid on the cop who drove, but the prosecutor not only over charged but charged too many people. Their zeal to put as many cops away for as long as possible undermined any reasonable charges so once again they got nothing.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 3:03:30 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Unless I am mistaken in most every case the victim was resisting arrest. I've said before police have no choice but to use as much force as is needed to make an arrest.
You're mistaken. How could you miss the unarmed black man lying on his back with his hands in the air? Shot for not resisting arrest.

Or the white kid SHOT IN THE FUCKING BACK by an emotionally unstable police officer who lost his shit because the kids was wearing headphones, listening to music and didn't hear the officer's crazed instructions to stop.

Or the black man in his car reaching for his fucking wallet, shot by a cop for.... reaching for his wallet.

No. They are not shot for resisting arrest. The police force has a major fucking problem with unstable and racist police officers who shouldn't be issuing parking tickets, let alone given a gun.


No, stoped because he fit the description of a armed robber, and when told repeatedly not to move grabbed for something behind him.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 4:27:27 PM   
kdsub


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Considering US law enforcement makes over 12,000,000 arrest a year... 33,000 arrests every day. 1,500 of those arrest a day are for violent crime the relative extremely rare incidents you describe do not represent the professionalism of law enforcement in this country as a whole.

Even in the examples you posted, if you look into the details, it is poor training not a purposeful desire to kill black men. I am not naive... I know there are bad police... murderers and thieves. But of the near 1,000,000 police officers there are a handful that meet your description.

High crime and guns in African American neighborhoods are the reasons more blacks are killed by police in proportion to their numbers. This is a social problem not the fault of police of all colors.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/31/2016 4:33:26 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Awareness)
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RE: UK Police v America police death squads - 7/31/2016 4:41:46 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

kdsub America and UK are not dissimilar - so I usually compare both...and there seems to be a vast disparity


A few years ago I posted on one of these threads, a study comparing crime in the UK and the US. There were not only the usual statistics of things like gun deaths per capita, strong arm robberies per capita, drug arrests per capita, etc. and etc., but there were also survey questions asked of the citizens of both places. One thing I found interesting was that citizens in the UK had less faith in the ability of their police to protect them, and another thing I found interesting was that US citizens were less afraid to walk down the street at night. Make of it what you will. I lost the link to that long ago. If I still had it I would gladly post it again.



You claim if you still had it you would post it, I dont see anyone stopping you from finding it. Not only are people in the UK afraid to walk down the street, we dont even desire to carry arms to feel safe at night.

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