quote:


As (I think) catize said: Why are people in such a damned hurry? If this really is going to be a lifetime relationship, shouldn't we try to see if we're compatible on the things that can come up in life (to the best of our ability to foresee them)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm toying with this idea for a new acronym in the BDSM community. (Yeah, I know. Like we need another one.) I'm going to call it OWYN. Pronounced "oh, win". It stands for "Only What You've Negotiated".

This acronym is not about consent. I feel that consent, or lack thereof, is a much bigger issue. We're not talking about consent violations here. Instead, we're going to talk about *actual* negotiations, as opposed to false expectations, resentments that come from that, and however the conversation goes.

The principle of OWYN is to deal with matters that are *actually* discussed. Too often, people *assume* that things should go this way or that, based pretty much on their own though process. Not what they actually say. They base it on what they "think" or what they "feel". The things that they have this ideal of "everybody knows that, it shouldn't have to be said" kind of thing.

"Everybody knows" is bullsh^t. That translates to you 'assumed' what the other person 'should' do, but you didn't quite step up to the plate to TELL them.

And that, my friends, is your own fault.

Time and time again on these boards, I read posts from the right side of the slash, (meaning s-types, bottoms, etc,) about obligations, expectations, and so on. More often than not, it's about stuff you didn't ACTUALLY negotiate. What happens when the scene is over? What happens if you *KNOW* you get drop two days later? What happens when the relationship is over and parties go their separate ways? Did you TALK about it or did you just place an expectation on the other party that they weren't willing to give?

OWYN is a more realistic approach.

If you come to me and say, "the top is responsible for my sub drop three days later," I really am going to ask you if you TALKED about that potential. Did you discuss it or did you just assume? OWYN.

"But, he was my Dom... He was supposed to love me." Did you TALK about romantic entanglements or did you just assume? OWYN.

"But, but, but, he's the DOM! No, I shouldn't still be in the position of serving HIM, but I want HIM to keep having responsibility for ME. I'm just a sub!!!" I really am going to look at you and ASK you if you've negotiated.

Like it or not, I'm going to look at you like an ADULT. I'm going to ask you what you've actually negotiated.

And that's how it should be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I've only "browsed" a few of the responses, here, but both Maria and Catize brought up interesting points to my mind.

I absolutely agree with Maria that we can "over share", in our particular setting. It's something that slapped me in the face, years ago. If I share too much with a submissive (I'm not speaking about sexual things, here. I'm speaking about dynamic-type things), I run the risk of "writing a script", whether we realize it or not.

Not only can that be anathema to a relationship as far as things getting "stale", awfully quickly, but it can provide a mechanism for a young lady who really isn't a match for me to pretend that she is.

I'm not saying I offer no information about myself. That would be counter-productive. I am saying that I tend not to try to lay out a "road map for all time", when we're still in the "getting-to-know-you" stage.

I love taking time (weeks; not hours, guys), getting to know a lady in very vanilla ways because there are always going to be indicators of D/s proclivities, if we know how to identify them.

That said, I have also established little "tests". I've mentioned this, here, before and got lambasted for it, but ... oh well!

In the course of getting to know a lady, I will share some of my likes and dislikes. One of my main ones is: I prefer a lady to not tie up her hair, in any way. I know some of those hairdos are nice. I get it, but unless it's a really formal affair (gown and gloves, ladies), I prefer that she just wear her hair down.

If I tell this to a lady on date two and on date three, she's still wearing her hair up ... well, she's "answering" me: "Sorry. I don't care enough about making you happy to just leave my hair alone, once I put down the brush and blow dryer." Message received. In this instance, I'm asking for LESS from her. Not doing something is pretty easy, really. I'm not asking her to go out of her way, in the slightest.

It's just a little thing, but it's very telling. Please notice: I didn't "order" her to wear her hair down. I told her that I find it very pleasing and she made a choice from there. It's a "signal" that she's smellin' what I'm cookin' or she's not.

Now, while all this is "nice", in the beginning, things take a turn, once she starts talking about giving herself to me. For me, this is where the "negotiation" really comes in, but, again: I'm not necessarily talking about the physical.

How does she feel about a guy that won't allow her abuse herself with drugs and alcohol? How am I defining "abuse"? What are her thoughts on children? What about one of us wanting to move one of our ailing parents into the house?

There's a metric shit-ton of things that people don't even bother with that can be relationship killers. Why are people in such a rush to just skip over them and "Well, I'll let future Michael worry about her love of venomous snakes." Bullshit on that. I don't want a surprise, a year down the road, when she wants a King Cobra.

As (I think) catize said: Why are people in such a damned hurry? If this really is going to be a lifetime relationship, shouldn't we try to see if we're compatible on the things that can come up in life (to the best of our ability to foresee them)?



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: bondageerone
Dear LP, I am a lesbian switch, and my whole philosophy has always been , pure mutual pleasure.
soooo who needs owyn.
ps you have been here 9 NINE years, still 45. meouw. xx Terri.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

'Scouse me.

Wasn't it you that asked me not to address you on these boards???

You don't get to play both sides of this.

You don't get to ask that I don't address you, but you can address others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

'Scouse me.

Wasn't it you that asked me not to address you on these boards???

You don't get to play both sides of this.

You don't get to ask that I don't address you, but you can address others.

Here we fuckin' go again!

I didn't address you as I didn't read your post. Specifically, I read Maria's and catize's posts.

I know you'll find this hard to believe, but the world doesn't revolve around you, little girl.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Michael, you're a dick.

It's ok. I'm a dick, too.

But, that's ok. Please feel free to call me "little girl". I consider it an honor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Michael, you're a dick.

It's ok. I'm a dick, too.

But, that's ok. Please feel free to call me "little girl". I consider it an honor.

Let me see if I can try to ease some of the tension between us:

I never suggested that you shouldn't post on a thread I started. If I gave that impression, I apologize. I did ask (more than once) that you not put my words into a quote box and then, blatantly mis-represent my point of view. That's not really a fine distinction. They're two very different ideas.

I object to you calling me "a dick" because if I call you a cunt, I'd get slammed.

That aside, when you stop behaving in such a petulant manner (very "dommely" behavior, by the way), I'll stop calling you a little girl.

You started this by putting your bullshit into my mouth. Don't want no mess? Don't start none.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Fast reply

And this is EXACTLY why people don't start threads, anymore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
Good thread - pretty much how I see things and it scares me

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I don't try to turn chicken shit into chicken salad. [:D]


Without referencce to anything in this thread...That is funny.
Now I have coffee up my nose and all over my "spill resistant keyboard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Fast reply

And this is EXACTLY why people don't start threads, anymore.

And this is why I seldom respond to topics on here. It's a good thread, Lady Pact. But like way too many others it has deteriorated into a name calling pissing contest rather than an exchange of ideas or a debate,
I put some thought and effort into my previous responses.
Not anyone's problem but mine that this sort of exchange makes my stomach hurt!

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

a good thread is a good thread....I have said that often...now, i may not like you or you me but that is a really good thread

I can crush those reprobates if you require - they tend to have no credible existence and insane opinions have you not noticed yet