RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 12:22:26 PM)

quote:

No, you're not. For me, it's exactly because governments have wanted to look as moral as the Pope that their drug policies have kept on failing.
In the States a militarized, increasingly funded, politically perpetuated unit that has helped militarize local police forces as well. More than one thousand civilians were killed by cops in 2015. Twenty percent unarmed.




vincentML -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 12:39:08 PM)

quote:

As for drugs, it is not the use that is even possibly immoral, it is the abuse and especially among legally prescribed drugs. Then one must consider the morality of 100,000 to 150,000 people (depending on who one reads) dying every year form mis-prescribed or conflict in pharmaceuticals.

You may know that Florida was for awhile the mecca of pill mills. I used to see people in line (as i drove by) early morning outside facilities wherein doctors prescribed Oxycontin for a hefty fee. Customers purchased loads of the stuff and transported it up to Kentucky to sell on the streets. It was known as 'hillbilly heroin' The pill mills were closed and doctors arrested/jailed. Now the elderly suffer. In my vicinity there is a shortage at the wholesale level. If you have a script and the clerk tells you they have none in stock you are required to shop around physically to all stores in the chain to inquire if the drug is in stock. They are not allowed to tell you by phone. This is true for any Class I drug. The DEA just classified MJ as a Class I drug again. To make matters worse, if you suffer from chronic pain here you are first required to attend a physical therapy facility before being allowed to go on to a "pain clinic" where after much paper work you may be given a script allowing you to hunt for the drug. You don't drive? You are legally blind? Oh, tough shit. Personally, i suspect the stories of abuse of prescription drugs are over-blown media fodder. Primary care physicians are carefully monitored and quite frightened so refer patients to physical therapy. Its all the piss!




DesideriScuri -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 1:13:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Am I the only person who thought Aylees comment was sarcasm?


No. No, you are not the only one.




WhoreMods -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 1:20:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

As for drugs, it is not the use that is even possibly immoral, it is the abuse and especially among legally prescribed drugs. Then one must consider the morality of 100,000 to 150,000 people (depending on who one reads) dying every year form mis-prescribed or conflict in pharmaceuticals.

You may know that Florida was for awhile the mecca of pill mills. I used to see people in line (as i drove by) early morning outside facilities wherein doctors prescribed Oxycontin for a hefty fee. Customers purchased loads of the stuff and transported it up to Kentucky to sell on the streets. It was known as 'hillbilly heroin' The pill mills were closed and doctors arrested/jailed. Now the elderly suffer. In my vicinity there is a shortage at the wholesale level. If you have a script and the clerk tells you they have none in stock you are required to shop around physically to all stores in the chain to inquire if the drug is in stock. They are not allowed to tell you by phone. This is true for any Class I drug. The DEA just classified MJ as a Class I drug again. To make matters worse, if you suffer from chronic pain here you are first required to attend a physical therapy facility before being allowed to go on to a "pain clinic" where after much paper work you may be given a script allowing you to hunt for the drug. You don't drive? You are legally blind? Oh, tough shit. Personally, i suspect the stories of abuse of prescription drugs are over-blown media fodder. Primary care physicians are carefully monitored and quite frightened so refer patients to physical therapy. Its all the piss!

Didn't Rush Limpdick spend a while in Florida?




PeonForHer -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 1:27:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

No, you're not. For me, it's exactly because governments have wanted to look as moral as the Pope that their drug policies have kept on failing.
In the States a militarized, increasingly funded, politically perpetuated unit that has helped militarize local police forces as well. More than one thousand civilians were killed by cops in 2015. Twenty percent unarmed.


Yep. Everything is bigger in the USA. I know. [;)]




thompsonx -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 2:11:54 PM)


ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Am I the only person who thought Aylees comment was sarcasm?

That is why I am waiting to finish the thread before I respond to her.[;)]




thompsonx -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 2:13:27 PM)


ORIGINAL: Aylee


But these are bad drugs that bad people use. Ya know, the immoral ones.


Help me girl....are you funnnin me?




thompsonx -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 2:14:49 PM)


ORIGINAL: Bhruic

My vote is for the communion wine... I'd agree that is immoral. Symbolic cannibalism and all that.

(or if you are Catholic, literal cannibalism)


As an ex altar boy I can tell you without fear of contradiction communion wine is not lafite rosthchild.[:(]




Aylee -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 6:20:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Am I the only person who thought Aylees comment was sarcasm?



In many ways it was.

But let's face it, the war on drugs and alcohol in the US has always fallen under the moral argument. What other reason would their be for cigarette and alcohol taxes to be "sin taxes."

Look at AA - addiction is a moral failing.

Look at the Dare program or the "Just Say No" campaigns - Icky people use drugs and alcohol. Again, it is a moral issue.

That ad with the comments about the girl turning tricks for meth. What kind of argument is that? A moral argument.

Drug laws are written and kept as a moral/immoral thing.

Why are the laws about Pot being changed? Because a argument for the morality of helping sick people is being made.

It is unfortunate that several on this thread do NOT understand the moral issue with drugs.

Drug users are undeserving because using drugs is immoral. Therefore they must be punished for their immoral behavior.

Until "drug use is immoral" is changed, drugs will stay illegal and the war on drugs will continue.

The good news - it is getting better. Medical marijuana, needle exchanges, suboxene, stuff like that re-enforces drug users are human and deserve compassion will help to change the laws.




Aylee -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/27/2016 6:21:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I am not a member or adherent to any moral system that places itself above an individual's right to choose what drugs they ingest. The notion that the war on drugs or current drug policy is morally mandated or driven is as silly as the war on drugs itself.

If you see this issue in moral terms that's fine for you personally but please don't force your narrow ideas of morality on the rest of society. Many of us have very different understandings of 'morality'.





Maybe you should slither out from under your rock and look at an anti-drug campaign. Twit.




thompsonx -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 12:05:31 AM)


ORIGINAL: Aylee

Maybe you should slither out from under your rock and look at an anti-drug campaign. Twit.


Do you think that drug use is immoral?




blacksword404 -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 1:46:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Adding to the mounting evidence of the failure of the so-called 'War on Drugs', a UK undercover cop's experiences infiltrating the drug scene persuaded him that it was all a tragic waste of time and resources, with very damaging consequences for drug users and no hope of success.

"[Woods] cites a global study, conducted by the coalition government, of the impact that punitive drug policies have had on drug use. Its unambiguous conclusion, he says, was that “however harsh your measures – the death penalty, 20 years in prison – they have no impact on drug use”. Instead of wasting our time trying to reduce drug use, argues Woods, “drug policy should be about reducing not drug use, but drug harm.

The drug policy Woods wants is both simple and radical. Heroin should be prescribed by doctors to addicts, and every other drug sold under strictly regulated conditions. Even crack? “I went into the police believing that message, ‘One smoke of crack and you’re addicted for life.’ I remember seeing Nancy Reagan on TV saying that, and it’s literally a load of crap. There is no evidential basis in that statement at all.” Contrary to drug war propaganda, he says, only a small minority of drug users ever develop a problem, regardless of which substance they take. Across the board, the figure is roughly 10% – the same percentage of gamblers who become problematic, interestingly – the only exception being heroin, where it is 25%.
”.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/26/neil-woods-undercover-cop-who-abandoned-the-war-on-drugs

More and more enforcers of the redundant policy of prohibition are coming out against it, saying it has failed and failed irredeemably. Yet still our Govts who are perfectly aware of this, decline to act. It really is time to abandon the failed policy of prohibition and start regarding personal drug use as a personal health issue, not a criminal or legal problem.


Some of our governments even supply high grade marijuana while they prosecute others.

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/free-pot-federal-program-ships-marijuana-to-four/




WhoreMods -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 5:51:25 AM)

As far as the Feds go, didn't the CIA used to raise a lot of its revenue from cocaine sales?




vincentML -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 12:14:05 PM)

quote:

But let's face it, the war on drugs and alcohol in the US has always fallen under the moral argument.
Your comments are insightful and you make a good brief for your position. I would like to add that there is a Class issue involved as well. The propaganda against alcohol during the Progressive Era was aimed at closing the saloons so that immigrant laborers would not lose their (meager) wages but get home to their families. I recall one advert showing a waif tugging at her daddy's trouser leg begging him to leave the saloon. When Teddy Roosevelt was police commissioner of NYC, or maybe when he was Governor, I can't recall which, he shut down the Sunday sale of alcohol in the city. That was the only day immigrant laborers could send their kids to get a bucket of suds. There followed a pretty angry popular reaction to that ordinance.

Marijuana, crack, and heroin were often associated with black musicians far back in the day. Just recently the Governor of Maine railed against black drug dealers bringing their wares to Maine and getting the state's white girls pregnant. (in the news again last night) Methamphetamine addiction is associated with poor whites in the press, I think. So, yeah, also a class issue in a class free democracy. [8|]




Aylee -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 12:59:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

But let's face it, the war on drugs and alcohol in the US has always fallen under the moral argument.
Your comments are insightful and you make a good brief for your position. I would like to add that there is a Class issue involved as well. The propaganda against alcohol during the Progressive Era was aimed at closing the saloons so that immigrant laborers would not lose their (meager) wages but get home to their families. I recall one advert showing a waif tugging at her daddy's trouser leg begging him to leave the saloon. When Teddy Roosevelt was police commissioner of NYC, or maybe when he was Governor, I can't recall which, he shut down the Sunday sale of alcohol in the city. That was the only day immigrant laborers could send their kids to get a bucket of suds. There followed a pretty angry popular reaction to that ordinance.

Marijuana, crack, and heroin were often associated with black musicians far back in the day. Just recently the Governor of Maine railed against black drug dealers bringing their wares to Maine and getting the state's white girls pregnant. (in the news again last night) Methamphetamine addiction is associated with poor whites in the press, I think. So, yeah, also a class issue in a class free democracy. [8|]



I agree that there is a class issue. However, I would argue that morality gets pulled into the class issue.

It is not spoken of much anymore, but we divide the poor into the deserving and undeserving poor.

How many homeless shelters allow you to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Not many. Because those that are using substances are the undeserving poor.

Yes, I know that there can be safety issue involved - fighting and what not, but that as an issue came much later. That certainly was not the reasoning during the industrial revolution when the Salvation Army started their missions. Or the YMCA's back when they were more than a gym.

Another example is the desire to urine test welfare recipients. Even though it is NOT cost-effective to do so, there is STILL the belief that drugs or alcohol make you part of the undeserving poor.

So yes, the war on drugs is a class issue. But we have long divided the lower classes into moral and immoral.




Termyn8or -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 4:27:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Ya see, drug and alcohol use is immoral.



Do you have a rational argument to support that? Besides "It just is".


I detect sarcasm.

Didn't Jesus turn water into wine ?

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 4:29:21 PM)

". It is only the human among all animals who can kill themselves. "

Untrue, lemmings do it.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 4:34:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Most of the anti-drug hysteria over the last best part of a century is down to Feds who were doing well out of the Volstead Act looking for something else to secure their job over when prohibition was repealed after it emerged that banning booze was killing more people than selling it legally had ever managed.
(A lot of former bootleggers and rum runners moved into narcotics instead for much the same reason at much the same time, too.)


Look up a song named "Copperhead Road". I am sure youtube has it, even a copy with words.

I can't right now until I reboot. Well I could but I could not verify the copy. Flash needs a reboot but I just ain't into videos and music anymore.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 4:39:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Most of the anti-drug hysteria over the last best part of a century is down to Feds who were doing well out of the Volstead Act l

Our President Richard Nixon declared "The War on Drugs" during his brief tenure in the early 70s. The claim has been made (recently denied by his chief aide Erlichman) that Nixon (would you buy a used car from this man?) created the monster as a way to covertly attack his 'enemies' ~ blacks (reputed heroin and crack (?) users) and the anti-Vietnam war community (reputed users of marijuana and LSD)

Aylee should have used the sarcasm emot.


Hilarious.

We got a war on drugs, we got more drugs. In fact you get better drugs in prison than on the street.

We got a war on poverty, we got more poverty.

We got a war on terrorism and we got more terrorism.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Undercover cop abandons 'war on drugs' (8/28/2016 5:09:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

As for drugs, it is not the use that is even possibly immoral, it is the abuse and especially among legally prescribed drugs. Then one must consider the morality of 100,000 to 150,000 people (depending on who one reads) dying every year form mis-prescribed or conflict in pharmaceuticals.

You may know that Florida was for awhile the mecca of pill mills. I used to see people in line (as i drove by) early morning outside facilities wherein doctors prescribed Oxycontin for a hefty fee. Customers purchased loads of the stuff and transported it up to Kentucky to sell on the streets. It was known as 'hillbilly heroin' The pill mills were closed and doctors arrested/jailed. Now the elderly suffer. In my vicinity there is a shortage at the wholesale level. If you have a script and the clerk tells you they have none in stock you are required to shop around physically to all stores in the chain to inquire if the drug is in stock. They are not allowed to tell you by phone. This is true for any Class I drug. The DEA just classified MJ as a Class I drug again. To make matters worse, if you suffer from chronic pain here you are first required to attend a physical therapy facility before being allowed to go on to a "pain clinic" where after much paper work you may be given a script allowing you to hunt for the drug. You don't drive? You are legally blind? Oh, tough shit. Personally, i suspect the stories of abuse of prescription drugs are over-blown media fodder. Primary care physicians are carefully monitored and quite frightened so refer patients to physical therapy. Its all the piss!


I know people who knew the famous Dr Faymore in Ohio. Had his own highway exit. Well the didn't build it for him but he had so many customers the cars were backed up that far. In fact he got some of my folk busted because this one broad was going with his stepson.

Going to the doctor was like "What drug do you feel you need ?". Writes the scrip and then his Wife owns the pharmacy next door, actually in the same building. They couldn't bust you leaving the place either because those 714 or whatever were in a bottle with your name on it.

By extension they fucked with any known associates. I never met Faymore or the stepson Kenny, and luckily I was not there when the house got raided. They got caught with lanacaine which is used to cut cocaine. (you cannot snort pure cocaine) But no cocaine. But there was a problem concerning a quarter pound of weed. When these people were doing well they would just throw the bag of weed on the pool table and say "Start rolling". They had party once with TWO live bands. You could play basketball in their attic. Kickass party house. Like 20 motorcycles parked in the front yard.

But all that pretty much came to an end after the Faymore incident. You can look it up online actually.

Now they tightened is up, you have to register a pharmacy now so the can make sure you are not getting high. Why the fuck do they care ? What, they just don't want people to have a good time ? Fukum, and the limo they rode in in. In fact shoot the MFs, they got no right to regulate any of this shit.

Even prescription drugs, the doc should write down the name of it and thell the guy to go get some and the recommended dosage. Not have to sign it, and if I need something I should be able to just go get it rather than wait in line n shit for a doctor to make a scribble on a piece of paper.

If people are going to kill themselves with drugs, let them. I mean it. Stop protecting people from themselves. You want 300 vasodilators ? Sure, that'll be $____ sir. You want 300 valiums ? Sure, that'll be $_____ sir. That is how it should be. People who ain't got the fucking common sense not to abuse shit like that, let them die by their ow hand. What the fuck does anyone else care ? You dead you dead. So much for that.

The difference is you are not climbing in my back window to steal to get the shit on the black market and wasting my ammunition. That shit costs money. I swear that if I ever have to shoot someone I am going to file a claim with the government for reimbursment for ammunition and gun cleaning supplies. They should have shot him before he got here, hell, they shoot people just for being Black. If someone is climbing in the window, this is likely not the first time he did this. He should have been dead already. And they give cops guns for what reason ? Because it is stylish ? Bullshit, they are there to kill.

T^T




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