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Is trump a "genius" or crook


Behold our lord of utter splendor
  21% (5)
He is a crooked bastard & cash vortex
  78% (18)


Total Votes : 23


(last vote on : 10/12/2016 8:13:03 AM)
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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 5:01:39 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
Again, note that Warren Buffet happily uses all the loop holes to pay less taxes than his secretary.

And then despite that, he wants to campaign to tax rich people like himself more money! And he built up a coalition of multi-millionaires and billionaires including Bill GAtes, to support his proposal.

I mean, it's contradictory, if he wanted to be charged more money, why did he use the loopholes in the first place? And I am sure Bill GAtes, and whoever else is in his team ALL exploited the loopholes!

Rich people do this shit! That's all I can say. They exploit loopholes, and then they feel they want to help the world by changing the loopholes they been exploiting. Because they made too much money and no more challenge anymore. Now they wanna do good before they die.

Not all that surprisingly, you don't understand the difference and create an entire rant on a false premise. Almost all of Buffet's wealth is in owning and trading stock corporations the fiduciary responsibilities of which, requires him to realize the highest returns including all tax loopholes.

Almost all of Trumps income is from partnerships that are subject to the tax tables most wage earners use. (even sub S corps.) The fiduciary then sets upon each individual partner for their share of profits or loss. Obviously Trump's results for that year, shows he (and presumably his partners) ALL took a big hit but enjoy what's known as 'carry forward' losses...something wage earners do not enjoy.

Wage earners are subject to an income' tax...whatever that is.

Thus he AND his partners enjoy 'carrying forward' all of that loss for any number of years and I think, a loophole that has since been...limited to 3 years.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/3/2016 5:05:27 PM >


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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 5:02:56 PM   
MercTech


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Trump is a barely articulate clown.
Hillary is a liar of the criminal sort.

Trump will do less damage to the already crippled country. Hillary will run it into the ground for her elite backers.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 5:08:54 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baldrick1965

Justin Beiber can't be president he is Canadian... and no we do not want him back

I want to know, does he have...a fucking green card ?

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Baldrick1965)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 5:13:13 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baldrick1965

Justin Beiber can't be president he is Canadian... and no we do not want him back

I want to know, does he have...a fucking green card ?

Ted Cruz is from Canukistan and he ran.

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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 5:19:56 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Trump is a barely articulate clown.
Hillary is a liar of the criminal sort.

Trump will do less damage to the already crippled country. Hillary will run it into the ground for her elite backers.

No man, HRC is a 1%er and will protect the investor class and equities. The rest is conversation. I.e., none of the elite on either side...give a fuck.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 5:30:33 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
A large business losing money is frequent, as you said.

A BILLION?? not so much.

Not true.

Fortune 500 companies that lost over $1 billion dollars in 2015:

Freeport-McMoRan Inc. - $12.2 billion
General Electric Co. - $6.1 billion
Energy Future Holdings Corp. - $5.3 billion
Baker Hughes Inc. - $2 billion
United States Steel Corp. - $2 billion
First Data Corporation - $1.5 billion
Icahn Enterprises L.P. - $1.2 billion
Avon Products, Inc. - $1.1 billion
Sears Holdings Corporation - $1.1 billion

Pay attention to the fact that these companies are in a variety of different sectors of business. There are also 11 businesses in the energy sector alone that have lost billions of dollars each.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/08/fortune-500-ten-billion-losers/

quote:


An individual losing near a BILLION????

As I understand it, all or most of his companies are privately held (supposedly 500+ at this time). I expect that means a majority of the financial burden is on him as an individual but I don't really know how he actually structures everything.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 6:25:44 PM   
tweakabelle


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Further to the news that Trump's 'Charitable' Foundation is being investigated, NPR reports that:
1. Trump hadn't contributed to his 'Charitable' Foundation since 2008; and
2. The Foundation's funds are being used to settle law suits against Donald Trump. Helping out a self described "billionaire" is hardly an appropriate use of a charitable foundation's funds.

I am yet to hear of any charitable work that Trump's 'Charitable' Foundation has actually done. It's beginning to look more and more like Trump's 'Charitable' Foundation is just another vehicle for Trump to scam the gullible public and evade taxes .....

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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 6:25:49 PM   
Lordandmaster


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That's kinda the point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
I don't really know how he actually structures everything.


(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 6:58:13 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

That's kinda the point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
I don't really know how he actually structures everything.



Meaning?

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 10:27:40 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
A large business losing money is frequent, as you said.

A BILLION?? not so much.


Pay attention to the fact that these companies are in a variety of different sectors of business. There are also 11 businesses in the energy sector alone that have lost billions of dollars each.
quote:


An individual losing near a BILLION????

As I understand it, all or most of his companies are privately held (supposedly 500+ at this time). I expect that means a majority of the financial burden is on him as an individual but I don't really know how he actually structures everything.


Much of Trump's bankruptcy was due to his failure to generate profits from his casinos. A casino can only lose money if (a) it's being scammed at the tables; (b) there's too many casinos competing for limited business; and/or (c) it is being managed incompetently. Profit in the casino business is recession proofed (casinos tend to do better in bad times) and purely a function of turnover. If enough bets are laid, the casino cannot help but make money. It's a statistical certainty. Anyone with half a smidgin of business sense would make a profit running a casino but we know Trump was unable to do so.

Given the number of other businesses that Trump also ran into bankruptcy (Trump Vodka, Airlines, Steaks etc) it would seem that (c) is the most plausible reason why his casinos went bankrupt. Trump managed to ensure that the poor fools who put their trust in him, and invested in his businesses lost heavily too - he ran the stock price down from $35.50 to a puny 17 cents, paying himself multiple millions per year while bankrupting his investors. Add all the above to his billion dollar losses and we see a person entirely lacking in business skills and acumen, not the "financial genius" Trump himself and his deluded fans claim him to be.

Would you buy a used car from a Wolf J Flywheel type like Trump? If your answer is yes, I have a nice bridge here in Sydney I can sell you for a bargain knockdown price (cash only).


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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 11:47:06 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Meaning "We don't know how he structures everything" is exactly why people are concerned. If he were a private citizen, then his investments and business interests would be a private matter. But he's running for the highest office in the land, and at that point I think you give up the right to keep your investments and business interests shrouded in fog.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

That's kinda the point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
I don't really know how he actually structures everything.



Meaning?


(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/3/2016 11:49:15 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Unless, of course, driving the business into bankruptcy while paying himself millions was the very business model from the start. Then it's not incompetence; it's something else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Trump managed to ensure that the poor fools who put their trust in him, and invested in his businesses lost heavily too - he ran the stock price down from $35.50 to a puny 17 cents, paying himself multiple millions per year while bankrupting his investors. Add all the above to his billion dollar losses and we see a person entirely lacking in business skills and acumen, not the "financial genius" Trump himself and his deluded fans claim him to be.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/4/2016 2:30:35 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
A large business losing money is frequent, as you said.

A BILLION?? not so much.

Not true.

Fortune 500 companies that lost over $1 billion dollars in 2015:

Freeport-McMoRan Inc. - $12.2 billion
General Electric Co. - $6.1 billion
Energy Future Holdings Corp. - $5.3 billion
Baker Hughes Inc. - $2 billion
United States Steel Corp. - $2 billion
First Data Corporation - $1.5 billion
Icahn Enterprises L.P. - $1.2 billion
Avon Products, Inc. - $1.1 billion
Sears Holdings Corporation - $1.1 billion

Pay attention to the fact that these companies are in a variety of different sectors of business. There are also 11 businesses in the energy sector alone that have lost billions of dollars each.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/08/fortune-500-ten-billion-losers/

quote:


An individual losing near a BILLION????

As I understand it, all or most of his companies are privately held (supposedly 500+ at this time). I expect that means a majority of the financial burden is on him as an individual but I don't really know how he actually structures everything.

Out of the millions of businesses, you found 10. Thanks for proving my point

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/4/2016 5:03:13 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
He does show some raw talent at self promotion, but then again so does Kim Kardashian ..... so I'm not sure one could describe that as "well-regarded".

She has a bigger dick than he does as well.


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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/4/2016 8:10:19 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Unless, of course, driving the business into bankruptcy while paying himself millions was the very business model from the start. Then it's not incompetence; it's something else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Trump managed to ensure that the poor fools who put their trust in him, and invested in his businesses lost heavily too - he ran the stock price down from $35.50 to a puny 17 cents, paying himself multiple millions per year while bankrupting his investors. Add all the above to his billion dollar losses and we see a person entirely lacking in business skills and acumen, not the "financial genius" Trump himself and his deluded fans claim him to be.


Given his pathological lying, his tax evasions and the appalling behaviour at his 'Charitable' Foundation, which Trump seems to treat like a personal handybank, (to mention just a few points) the possibility you are hinting at - that he deliberately shafted those poor fools gullible enough to invest in Trump's ventures - seems to be firming into a probability by the minute .......... who knows by the end of the week it may have morphed into a certainty.

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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/4/2016 8:36:43 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

His base hate the poor



That's a huge sweeping generalization.


Only if you assume my definition of base.


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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/4/2016 8:38:21 AM   
Lucylastic


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Trump Chose To Use Chinese Steel Over American Giving Them Millions Of Dollars
Posted at 5:30 pm on October 3, 2016 by Brandon Morse

How often do we hear Trump talk about how China is killing us? Well, as it turns out, Trump isn't helping the situation. In fact, as reported by Newsweek's Kurt Eichenwald, during the last couple of construction projects, Trump chose to use foreign Chinese steel over American made steel to save money.

A Newsweek investigation has found that in at least two of Trump’s last three construction projects, Trump opted to purchase his steel and aluminum from Chinese manufacturers rather than United States corporations based in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.
One major project, the Trump International Hotel in Vegas, went through a series of companies and locations that made it none too apparent that Trump was purchasing his goods through Chinese companies.

According to government documents, the Chinese entity chosen by Trump to provide steel for the Las Vegas property is a holding company called Ossen Innovation Co. Ltd.–formerly known as Ultra Glory International Ltd. That British Virgin Islands entity in turn owns a second holding company called Ossen Innovation Materials Group Ltd., which, through a complex legal arrangement, indirectly owns Ossen Innovation Materials Co. Ltd., and through it, Ossen (Jiujiang) Steel Wire & Cable Co. Ltd., the operating business located in Shanghai. With such layers upon layers of corporate shells and divisions, builders like Trump can purchase their steel from less-expensive Chinese suppliers without the ultimate supplier being readily apparent. That steel was then used in the construction of the Las Vegas property.
Trump apparently purchased Chinese steel for the International Hotel in Chicago as well.

For the Chicago project, tracing the metal back to China is once again a difficult process. To construct the exterior panels, Trump hired an entity called Permasteelisa Cladding Technologies Ltd., which is based in Connecticut. That company, in turn, is a division of Permasteelisa North America Corp., which, despite its name, has been identified by the American government as an importer of steel, aluminum and other metals from its affiliated companies, Permasteelisa South China Factory and Permasteelisa Hong Kong Limited.
Eichenwald estimates that due to Trump's choice of going with Chinese steel in Chicago, American companies lost out on more than $350 million dollars. A shame when you consider that some metal producing American companies are going out of businesses due to China willing to taking a loss on their sales in order to drive American companies under.

There's also another danger in working with Chinese metal producers. It strengthens their government.

When Americans like Trump purchase their steel through Ossen, they are providing financial benefits to an array of Chinese companies and even the government. For example, Ossen corporate records show Chinese banks provide all of its short-term financing in the form of loans that almost all mature after one year, and then are replaced by new loans; most Chinese banks are arms of the state, tightly controlled by the Chinese Communist Party, and provide financing to companies that are competitors to American manufacturers in other industries.

http://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2016/10/03/trump-chose-use-chinese-steel-american-giving-millions-dollars/

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RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/4/2016 8:39:52 AM   
Lucylastic


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An update on the trump foundation being used to start his presidential run:)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/10/04/trump_used_foundation_funds_for_2016_run_filings_suggest.html

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/4/2016 9:07:16 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Out of the millions of businesses, you found 10. Thanks for proving my point

Try getting some facts before you take your victory lap, Billy. As of 2013, Forbes put the number of businesses valued over a billion dollars at around 2000. Inc Magazine put that number at 5000. That's a long way from "millions". And considering I gave you a one-year sample list of 20 companies (not 10) that lost over a billion dollars, I think it's safe to say the value of Trumps' losses are no anomaly.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is trump a "genius" or crook - 10/4/2016 9:12:49 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Ten times Trump shamed others on tax http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37535643
…..Donald Trump's past tweets about taxes are drawing fresh scrutiny after the New York Times reported he paid no taxes for nearly two decades having declared losses approaching $1bn.
The Republican presidential candidate has used his Twitter megaphone in recent years to wag a finger at everyone from Barack Obama to Mark Zuckerberg on paying their fair share…..



US election 2016: Trump 'a genius' if he paid no taxes – allies http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37533263
White House candidate Donald Trump's allies have said he is a "genius" if a report is true that he paid no federal income taxes for 18 years.
The New York Times said it had received some of Mr Trump's 1995 tax documents revealing $915m losses that allowed him to legally avoid paying taxes.
The real estate tycoon's camp refused to confirm or deny the report, but said the filing was "illegally obtained".



There's no evidence at this point that Mr Trump did anything improper. Just because it's legal, however, doesn't mean this revelation isn't potentially damaging. First, Mr Trump has staked his campaign on being a savvy businessman, and posting a financial loss so large that his tax accountant's software couldn't process the number could undermine that claim.




Bear in mind that Trump has not officially released this tax return and therefore reprinting or publishing any of the information is still technically a felony. Doesn't matter where or how you got the information, it is illegal to print or publish it.


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