Taramafor
Posts: 39
Joined: 12/22/2016
From: UK, Manchester
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DocStrange
quote:
ORIGINAL: Taramafor
I don't ever do consent. Ever. It's simple, I need to be that close to someone to even be around them. I make myself known to everyone I come across. It either gets accepted or does not after a bit of time. Often it happens quickly. I make it happen. I put me out there and want to know others in turn.
As a result I don't do consent. Because I talk about things VERY clearly. ASAP. All the time. And make it known what affects me. And if someone does something "harmful" to me then that's ok because I'll know they wouldn't have meant too and I'll not blame them for it. This applies as much outside of BDSM as it does inside of it. I want to be very clear on that account.
When two people know each other more intimately, consent can be more implied but it is still there. Your partner knows you, and you trust your partner not to hurt you, so you are giving consent whether you talk it or not. I am sure you have hard limits. What happens when your partner crosses a harm limit you two never discussed?
You need to realize that there are a great many people who engage into more casual play. They are not intimately close with their play partner. And there is a need to know what is okay and what is not okay. Plain and simple, there is a need for consent. I fall into this group. Before I play with someone we discuss what is okay and not okay. We even talk gray area and have a question system set up to if it is okay to proceed.
There are also many reason's for talking consent other than something being a hard limit for you. It could be due to a medical limit for the person. An example of that for me is that I have had intestinal surgery. So things like fisting are off limits for me as it could do medical harm to me. Any there are many more examples of this.
I am a firm believer is talking very detailed consent. But then again consent to me is just a part of communication with my partner. Communication is key to healthy relationship and fun play!
I'll cover your post in order. And thank you for at least asking me questions instead of just assuming the worst of things. I appreciate that.
The first part of what you said. I want to be clear here, I never ever force anyone to choose anything. I've been forced to make choices in the past myself (and yes, I mean forced) so I take offense to the post that claims I'd ever do such a thing. I know what a horrible thing it is to do. Now then, you said "intimately". That has everything to do with things on my end. I need to be very close to someone. I am clear about things and talk things out. I state "X would be a good thing" and "Y wouldn't be". What I DON'T do is go "You can do this or you can't do that". Consent needs a verification. A spoken or unspoken agreement. All I do is state how comfortable or uncomfortable I am with certain things. And even uncomfortable things are ok. Technically it can be argued that I consent to everything now that I think about it. There's no clear line with that (for me anyway) so I can't go "So much of this and so much of that". If a partner harms me then it's a simple mistake. I do not hold it against them as people can make mistakes. If it has never been discussed then it's most likely something that neither of us even considered. How can I possibly resent someone for not being a mind reader? I can't. There is never blame. And I would trust that they simply made a mistake. Or maybe they don't like me for a moment and do something bad to me. But that's ok too because I know people do stupid shit for stupid reasons. Can be sure I'd be having words with them after though. Or maybe I just trust someone to the point where I accept the abuse and hostility as well (No, really, I do that with people I trust). Such things happen and in a sense even have happened with me already. Accepting it has a way of making things better. It can easily make things worse if there's not enough trust too.
Now for the second part of what you said. Of course I realize that, but you also have to realize that there are people who also don't. That logic works both ways. I was covering "More trusted partners". Not "Casual play partners". And even casual play partners might need to do "full trust without verification" (or so I imagine). If that makes sense. Basically "Do the thing, be it good or bad, I don't speak on the things themselves". Hopefully now things make a little more sense. I let someone know I'm ok with "random things". Good AND bad. I don't ask for an answer as to wherever it's ok or not. I just let someone know it's ok on my end alone, and since consent is a two way street that means it's not consented too on anothers end until they either say it's ok or do the random thing. There are times others say it but there are also times where one has to wait for the random things to happen and until those random things happen (including the "bad" ones) it's not known if it's been "consented too". A lot like love in some regards. To know if another is "There in that way you want". But like with love they have to reach that destination in their own time in their own way at their own pace, and with things like this it can take time. Maybe even a long time. Let's say some girl kisses me on the cheek. Do you then think about wherever it needs consenting too to kiss back or do you just kiss back? That will operate on a case by case bases depending on who of course but since I'm on about "trusted and known company to begin with" then consent doesn't enter my mind. It might be in the minds of others and then things might need talking about there but it never enters my mind first beyond "I need to let another know everything that might happen is ok, even if it's bad shit that harms me." Things that apply before any ownership, let alone in it.
Ah, the third part of what you said. This is very important. It is because there are things that affect my mental health that I don't do hard limits or make people choose. Naturally others will make their own choices. Note: I didn't say "let" them choose. I don't control the choices of others. Consent is going "This is ok, you have my agreement to do this" and "I'm comfortable/uncomfortable with this, go ahead and do it". BUT what about the times things aren't so ok? The really bad shit? Personally I accept the bad with the good of things. And I am lifestyle and not just "for play". There might be rough patches. It will be ok because people are human and shit can happen even though it might suck when it does, but it's ok for bad shit to just happen. If I go "That's not ok, you hurt me" then that risks self blame (of others). And I know what that shit is like. I'm not "forgive and forget", I'm "There's nothing to forgive because you're human and I'll remember and hope you do too". I never ever go "Avoided because bad stuff happened" either (which can also lead to self blame). Others will either be there or not. Others can walk away or not. This doesn't mean I'll stand for "just bad shit happening all the time" though. If I feel like there comes a point where someone seems to be more interested in getting their jollies off then what I want/need as well then I'm damn sure bringing it up and going to go "Let's figure out how we can make this work for both of us". I only keep in touch with people that "play fair" to begin with. In general, not just in BDSM terms. Except in one case with an ex and even there things ended well because I "accepted bad shit". I never said it was ok though. Never said it wasn't either. How can you even bring in consent when things aren't even known to be ok or not? At most all you can do is go "Ok then, this is the situation and I'm here throughout it even though things are clear as mud". Do a bad thing once? Fine, I'll deal with it. Do it again? Ok then, I'm still dealing with it. Doing it over and over and over and over? Well I could say that that's not fine yet it has been fine already. But only because I got some good stuff as well. You know what's not fine though? Never doing anything good after so long of a lot of bad shit. Only then I can I go "This shit isn't on". But do you have any idea how much it would take for me to get to that point? To go "Ok, here's the rules and here's where consent is needed"? Someone would have to push me pretty damn hard for that to even be taken into consideration. And even when someone pushed me to that point it wasn't taken into consideration. I just trusted the other to not do it again. And they haven't. I never had to ask anyone to not do something. Or even to do it. As a result good shit happens. It works for me. Seems to be working for others too.
I communicate a lot. Always. That's down right crucial. So since there's some confusion (let alone the fucking assumptions) then I'll set an example. Of how there can be a "none consent" about something. It's a conversation I once had with a dom and they were ok and understanding with it. Even if you lot aren't. You don't have to understand me but I thought that at the very least I might be given the benefit of the doubt and taken at my word. Shame on me for thinking that I guess.
The conversation is roughly as follows. "I take the bad with the good of things, you can do whatever and I'll point out how it affects me and my mental health, which isn't hard ruled since I trust you and I won't ever make you choose so it doesn't even need to be consented too". In other words people don't need me to go "I agree/disagree with X or Y". I let them figure it out what affects me after I go "This specific shit would be unwise to do which I know you can do because I can't control you." So when I say I don't do consent what I'm really saying is that I never try to control what others do. I simply let things happen as they will.
And consent isn't just communication. You was wise to say "to me" when you brought that up. In legal terms it very much needs verification. And that's why there's so much confusion with this topic. Because consent is more then that, it's a perception. And people might see it a little differently depending on who you ask. I've even heard of people say things like "Consent is for more important BDSM things and choice is for less important things like food". Since that person spoke on a whole as a fact instead of themselves I took issue with it since I know choice is always important. To me choice is more important then consent. I'd never force it on others and I'd never take it away from others. Doing that is what drives people bonkers. Believe me, I know. All too well.
So just to be clear when I say consent what I mean is "I don't seek verification from others". Others might want me to verify things but I won't. If that's not ok with them they can walk away. I need to be trusted to be there without having to go "Ok, I agree to that". Some people think that limits options for some reason and in some ways that is true. But people that need me to consent aren't even an option in first place. And that's for my mental health to be frank. It's an expectations thing. Never place them, never put them on me.
< Message edited by Taramafor -- 12/26/2016 5:26:12 PM >
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Lot of talk about consent. Not enough about the LACK of... - 
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