RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible?

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible?

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/9/2017 5:58:09 AM

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Perfect example of the difference between proof for and evidence of. The latter is commonly assumed to be the former.

It the same time, lack of proof of is commonly assumed to equal untrue, when it actually means not established as true or false.

Many things, including keystones of our lives and philosophies, will have to remain uncertain, embraced not by unassailable logic, but by choice.

And that's fine, as long as we don't confuse the two.

I have seen and experience many things I can't explain, including things I now use to help others. But there are as many questions as there are answers. If we remember that, and keep asking and learning, we can keep growing. If we decide we now know all, we're neither correct nor able to learn.

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/9/2017 12:51:04 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

There is no possible way to know for certain the internal experience of another entity.

Says a guy on the internet who doesn't believe in issuing definitive pronouncements . . .

quote:

As for the presence of mind at all levels of manifestation, Haldane, Dyson, Bohm and others disagree with you. Shall we go with the guy on the Internet? I'm not appealing to the former as authorities, I'm questioning your competence to be running around issuing definitive pronouncements on the merit of their views.

Now, there is a shamefully transparent way to shut off debate when you lack a substantive reply.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/9/2017 2:00:32 PM

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

There is no possible way to know for certain the internal experience of another entity.

Says a guy on the internet who doesn't believe in issuing definitive pronouncements . . .

You're making shit up again. I didn't say I didn't believe in making definitive pronouncements. I questioned your competence to be making the kind of definitive pronouncements you were issuing. See the quote below? It's called English.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

As for the presence of mind at all levels of manifestation, Haldane, Dyson, Bohm and others disagree with you. Shall we go with the guy on the Internet? I'm not appealing to the former as authorities, I'm questioning your competence to be running around issuing definitive pronouncements on the merit of their views.

Now, there is a shamefully transparent way to shut off debate when you lack a substantive reply.

There you go making shit up again.

K.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 6:58:44 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

There is no possible way to know for certain the internal experience of another entity.

I never said there was.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 8:08:24 AM

Posts: 3623
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
An alternative explanatory proposal is something operative in our Universe that changes the probabilities. To my thinking, parsimony favors the latter. But while some might like to go there, extrapolations to "God" were nowhere in my post.

So why did you bring it up then?

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 8:10:52 AM

Posts: 3623
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ReMakeYou
I guess in practice, I don't see much difference between "there's nothing out there that can care" and "if there is something out there, we're too small to be worth caring about".

I don't think we can say for sure that an omnipotent being wouldn't be capable of infinite care, infinite awareness, etc.

(in reply to ReMakeYou)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 12:41:39 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: ReMakeYou
I guess in practice, I don't see much difference between "there's nothing out there that can care" and "if there is something out there, we're too small to be worth caring about".

I don't think we can say for sure that an omnipotent being wouldn't be capable of infinite care, infinite awareness, etc.

We can judge by the events we experience (storms, earthquakes, volcanoes, cancer, Trump, etc.)

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to heavyblinker)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 4:26:57 PM

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ReMakeYou

the idea that there's a guiding cosmic intelligence that isn't necessarily the god of the bible still runs into one major flaw. When you stop grounding your ideas in the bible, you have no idea what the guiding cosmic intelligence might be.

Why can't we think for ourselves, pray tell, and draw on our experiences or other scriptural texts?

K.

(in reply to ReMakeYou)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 5:06:03 PM

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I don't think we can say for sure that an omnipotent being wouldn't be capable of infinite care, infinite awareness, etc.

We can judge by the events we experience (storms, earthquakes, volcanoes, cancer, Trump, etc.)

This beautiful planet, with its seasons, lakes and seas, mountains and valleys, continents and islands, sunrises and sunsets, and a biosphere teeming with different forms of life, is the product of storms, floods, volcanoes, and shifting tectonic plates. The notion that a perfect God would have provided us with a nicely padded safe space is naïve. Adversity pushes us to discover our strengths, losses deepen our appreciation of love, and almost every religion on Earth holds that our time in this world is only one stage in the ongoing experience of an immortal consciousness. I don't know whether there is a God or not, but while it may be easy for you to imagine how you would do things if you had God's power, it's impossible for any of us to know what we would do if we had God's knowledge, and it would benefit our judgments to remember that we don't.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/10/2017 5:24:07 PM >

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 7:28:40 PM

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

FR

The topic of theodicy strikes me deeply tonight, no doubt because I was in the hospital this time last year.

Since my colorectal cancer diagnosis in January 2013, I've been hospitalized 15 times. The shortest stay was overnight; the longest ran ten weeks. There have been four major operations--the longest running 12 hours--along with countless other, "minor" jaunts to the OR. Aside from my own adventures, I saw fellow human beings suffering in ways I could barely fathom.

This may sound odd, but in all that time, I never really asked "Why me?" That's largely because I knew the answer: genes and being tardy to get scoped.

What I did often and earnestly wonder--and still do--was "Why anybody?"

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 7:51:12 PM

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

Should I ever get my act together enough to write a medical memoir, I'm pretty sure this will be the epigraph.

It's literally true in my case.

"Looking back as I do on many of my trying theatrical experiences,
I remember the words of a very wise person:
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Or leaves you open to secondary infections."

PATTI LUPONE: A MEMOIR

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 9:03:28 PM

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Oh my.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 9:34:57 PM

Posts: 3623
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: ReMakeYou
I guess in practice, I don't see much difference between "there's nothing out there that can care" and "if there is something out there, we're too small to be worth caring about".

I don't think we can say for sure that an omnipotent being wouldn't be capable of infinite care, infinite awareness, etc.

We can judge by the events we experience (storms, earthquakes, volcanoes, cancer, Trump, etc.)

I doubt that an omnipotent being would follow anyone's rules or have the same sense of right and wrong.

I'm not talking about 'God', who certainly does seem to have a very human sense of right and wrong, who has prophets and even a human 'son', and who almost certainly does not exist.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 9:41:38 PM

Posts: 120
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

“God does not play dice with the universe.”

----Albert Einstein.

(in reply to heavyblinker)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 9:43:38 PM

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gman992

“God does not play dice with the universe.”

----Albert Einstein.

Only because He knows the universe cheats.

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to gman992)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 9:47:11 PM

Posts: 120
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

If He controls the universe, how it can it cheat?

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 9:49:01 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I don't think we can say for sure that an omnipotent being wouldn't be capable of infinite care, infinite awareness, etc.

We can judge by the events we experience (storms, earthquakes, volcanoes, cancer, Trump, etc.)

This beautiful planet, with its seasons, lakes and seas, mountains and valleys, continents and islands, sunrises and sunsets, and a biosphere teeming with different forms of life, is the product of storms, floods, volcanoes, and shifting tectonic plates. The notion that a perfect God would have provided us with a nicely padded safe space is naïve. Adversity pushes us to discover our strengths, losses deepen our appreciation of love, and almost every religion on Earth holds that our time in this world is only one stage in the ongoing experience of an immortal consciousness. I don't know whether there is a God or not, but while it may be easy for you to imagine how you would do things if you had God's power, it's impossible for any of us to know what we would do if we had God's knowledge, and it would benefit our judgments to remember that we don't.

K.,
,

Very nice sentiments, Kirata, and well written. Poetic even.

quote:

Adversity pushes us to discover our strengths, losses deepen our appreciation of love

If it does not kill us.

The Christian god is not only omnipotent and omniscient, he is also merciful tis claimed.

However, more than nine million people died in the ten worst natural disasters in the historical record. Observing the beauty of the planet ceased to be an option for them.

quote:

it's impossible for any of us to know what we would do if we had God's knowledge, and it would benefit our judgments to remember that we don't.

A rehash of the lame admonition that we are not to question God's will. And yet we have the ability for perception and the capacity to wonder about the endless natural tragedies that befall humans.

So, we disagree, You and I. Quell surprise . . .

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 9:52:58 PM

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gman992

If He controls the universe, how it can it cheat?

Dude, it was a joke ... in the "non-sequitur" vein?

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to gman992)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 11:02:53 PM

Posts: 5079
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I don't think we can say for sure that an omnipotent being wouldn't be capable of infinite care, infinite awareness, etc.

We can judge by the events we experience (storms, earthquakes, volcanoes, cancer, Trump, etc.)

This beautiful planet, with its seasons, lakes and seas, mountains and valleys, continents and islands, sunrises and sunsets, and a biosphere teeming with different forms of life, is the product of storms, floods, volcanoes, and shifting tectonic plates. The notion that a perfect God would have provided us with a nicely padded safe space is naïve. Adversity pushes us to discover our strengths, losses deepen our appreciation of love, and almost every religion on Earth holds that our time in this world is only one stage in the ongoing experience of an immortal consciousness. I don't know whether there is a God or not, but while it may be easy for you to imagine how you would do things if you had God's power, it's impossible for any of us to know what we would do if we had God's knowledge, and it would benefit our judgments to remember that we don't.

K.,
,

Very nice sentiments, Kirata, and well written. Poetic even.

quote:

Adversity pushes us to discover our strengths, losses deepen our appreciation of love

If it does not kill us.

The Christian god is not only omnipotent and omniscient, he is also merciful tis claimed.

However, more than nine million people died in the ten worst natural disasters in the historical record. Observing the beauty of the planet ceased to be an option for them.

quote:

it's impossible for any of us to know what we would do if we had God's knowledge, and it would benefit our judgments to remember that we don't.
A rehash of the lame admonition that we are not to question God's will. And yet we have the ability for perception and the capacity to wonder about the endless natural tragedies that befall humans.

So, we disagree, You and I. Quell surprise . . .

So what if there are endless natural tragedies that befall humans?

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/10/2017 11:37:05 PM

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

it's impossible for any of us to know what we would do if we had God's knowledge, and it would benefit our judgments to remember that we don't.

A rehash of the lame admonition that we are not to question God's will.

Why would someone who doesn't even know whether there is a God be admonishing people not to question his will?

I don't know whether there is a God or not, but while it may be easy for you to imagine how you would do things if you had God's power, it's impossible for any of us to know what we would do if we had God's knowledge, and it would benefit our judgments to remember that we don't.

I know you try your best not to let people see the rabbit, but amateurish quote-trimming won't work.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/11/2017 12:22:17 AM >

(in reply to vincentML)

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible?

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.610