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Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 12:15:37 AM

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Results from the Baylor Religion Survey (2007)

The Baylor Department of Sociology received a three-year grant from the John M. Templeton Foundation, to conduct a nationally representative multi-year study of religious values, practices, and behaviors. Wave 2 of the Baylor Religion Survey was collected in 2007 and includes a deep selection of questions related to religious behaviors, beliefs and belonging.

18-29 years old......27.9%
30-44 years old......20.7%
45-59 years old......18.8%
60-74 years old......19.9%
75 years and older...15.3%

Less than high school..................7.9%
High school graduate..................13.1%
Some college or vocational training...23.2%
College graduate......................23.4%
Postgraduate work/degree..............35.3%

Democrat......14.4%
Independent...17.4%
Republican....28.6%
Other.........22.6%

Source: ARDA

K.

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 1:25:59 AM

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I'm surprised the numbers weren't much much higher among the postgrads, at least... but before we all start choosing sides I think we should all acknowledge that people have different reasons for coming to certain conclusions.

It isn't hard for me to believe that a Republican would say they aren't incompatible because he thinks teachers should 'teach the controversy', something which a Democrat would oppose... while a less politically-minded postgrad might say that they aren't incompatible because religion is such a broad topic that the idea that all religions poison one's objectivity is absurd.

I definitely do NOT think they are incompatible in all cases... but some belief systems definitely clash with reality-- such as those who take the Bible literally or think that the Earth is only 6000 years old or whatever.

Still, the numbers seem to indicate that religion is definitely on a massive decline... and I'm pretty sure that the ignorant but very vocal minority, as well as individualistic capitalism have a lot to do with that.

< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 1/5/2017 1:27:20 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 1:58:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

the numbers seem to indicate that religion is definitely on a massive decline

Actually, the numbers indicate that you are on something.

Image credit: Pew Research

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/5/2017 2:03:28 AM >

(in reply to heavyblinker)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 2:07:12 AM

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Kinda surprised how many republicans answered yes. You would think the opposite because it mainly republicans who want to govern based on religion. Well loosely anyway.

Anyway, my friend's son went to a Catholic, actually Jesuit school. We turned the kid into a monster and taught him to question everything, and he did. He asked them about teaching evolution and creationism and was told that the science teacher(s) and religion teacher(s) had an agreement - you teach science and I will teach religion. (and vice versa of course)

The 6,000 year old Earth people are the worst of the class. They know neither science nor religion. They cite Genesis says six days. Well how long was a day ?

Plus the fact that when I was young I wasn't quite as faithless as I am now but at about six years old I had it reconciled, evolution was the method of creation. Think when the Mona Lisa was created it just magically popped up out of this air ? Fuck no. I bet you could convince the 6,000 year people. I suppose the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel painted itself as well. God's will and all.

Religion has always been a method of control. Tell them god said it. What the hell is a King James version of the Bible ? Who the hell was he to decide what goes in and what goes out ? Who the hell ws the Pope who changed the sabbath to Saturday to appease the Pagans to get more people into the "flock". And flock it is, they even refer to it that way.

Anyway still, what the hell would account for so many republicans answering yes ?

T^T

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 2:09:56 AM

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A 7 point jump in unaffiliateds over a 7 year period is definitely a decline.
Atheism is spreading faster than any religion ever has in the history of civilization.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 2:59:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

A 7 point jump in unaffiliateds over a 7 year period is definitely a decline.

It's only a decline in individuals who consider themselves formally affiliated with a particular religion, which is not quite the same thing as a decline in religious belief. Belief in a "God" per se has declined considerably less, and even that isn't quite the same thing as a decline in the belief in a higher wisdom or power behind the Universe. All one can really say on the basis of the data is that religious beliefs are changing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Atheism is spreading faster than any religion ever has in the history of civilization.

Well let's hope not, because in the United States 68% of Atheists are male and 78% are Caucasian! We don't want something like that spreading. Atheists need to be publicly shamed into reaching out to brown people and women.

K.

(in reply to heavyblinker)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 5:12:17 AM

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I dislike the wording of the Title and polls...as I had to have a bit of a think about who the minority were and what side they were
strongly disagreeing with - I presume the poll had 5 options...

Therefore I am going to double up on all the answers to include strongly disagree and disagree - and overlook some of those subsets are entwined.
And the question should have been Are Science and Religion compatible - they got money/grants for that garbage

So in essence here is what i read -
1. Older people understand religion more
2. Educated people are idiots, well some of them x 2 and that one is up to 70%
3. Republicans are idiots that figure is near 60% and encompasses subset 2.

Religion and Science are completely incompatible

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 5:44:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

A 7 point jump in unaffiliateds over a 7 year period is definitely a decline.

It's only a decline in individuals who consider themselves formally affiliated with a particular religion, which is not quite the same thing as a decline in religious belief. Belief in a "God" per se has declined considerably less, and even that isn't quite the same thing as a decline in the belief in a higher wisdom or power behind the Universe. All one can really say on the basis of the data is that religious beliefs are changing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Atheism is spreading faster than any religion ever has in the history of civilization.

Well let's hope not, because in the United States 68% of Atheists are male and 78% are Caucasian! We don't want something like that spreading. Atheists need to be publicly shamed into reaching out to brown people and women.

K.

Why should we hope not ? Why should any so-called atheist be shamed at all. How is it that those, simply for not believing in the supernatural, are to be treated or assessed as any different for it ?

Even when I did have faith, I never believed that conferred anything special upon me and now that I don't, I don't believe I am any different than most people who do...except for those that one factor.

I am an anti-theist, others are not...so what ?

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 5:49:22 AM

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um, im pretty sure kirata's being sarcastic about the atheist's lack of affirmative action programs.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 5:55:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Kinda surprised how many republicans answered yes. You would think the opposite because it mainly republicans who want to govern based on religion. Well loosely anyway.

Anyway, my friend's son went to a Catholic, actually Jesuit school. We turned the kid into a monster and taught him to question everything, and he did. He asked them about teaching evolution and creationism and was told that the science teacher(s) and religion teacher(s) had an agreement - you teach science and I will teach religion. (and vice versa of course)

The 6,000 year old Earth people are the worst of the class. They know neither science nor religion. They cite Genesis says six days. Well how long was a day ?

Plus the fact that when I was young I wasn't quite as faithless as I am now but at about six years old I had it reconciled, evolution was the method of creation. Think when the Mona Lisa was created it just magically popped up out of this air ? Fuck no. I bet you could convince the 6,000 year people. I suppose the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel painted itself as well. God's will and all.

Religion has always been a method of control. Tell them god said it. What the hell is a King James version of the Bible ? Who the hell was he to decide what goes in and what goes out ? Who the hell ws the Pope who changed the sabbath to Saturday to appease the Pagans to get more people into the "flock". And flock it is, they even refer to it that way.

Anyway still, what the hell would account for so many republicans answering yes ?

T^T

you are getting confused a bit by the language. they (the republicans) are strongly disagreeing with the statement "that the two are incompatible."

as to your question about king james---I answered that the first time you brought it up months ago:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Well the same shit happened to the Bible. What the fuck is a King James version ? Who the fuck is the leader of a country, member of a royal welfare recipient family get the right to edit the word of god ?
T^T

the king james version is an English translation, not an "editing."

and to be clear, the work of the translation was commissioned and supported by the king, not DONE by him. it took dozens of scholars a handful of years to do it.

you can only say "the same shit happened to the bible" if you can show how meaningful information exists in the original Hebrew, greek and Aramaic, but then does not show up in the English versions.

i added this later in a conversation with another person that has relevance here:

there was no the bible at the time. relatively speaking canonicity was still occurring, as well as the development of Christian traditions (eastern, protestant and roman catholic). there are some instructive side by side charts here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

the notion that the purpose of religion is to control, as opposed to give spiritual background and guidance to believers might find some credence in isolated instances throughout history, but to attribute that motivation to all religion, is both absurdly cynical and misguided.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 1/5/2017 6:02:27 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 5:58:29 AM

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Since there are no republicans, thats probably why the nutsuckers are ignoring science in all forms. We see it every day, deniers, idiots, and a 6000 year old world.

_____________________________

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(in reply to bounty44)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 6:05:46 AM

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go stalk someone else mnottertroll.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 6:07:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

go stalk someone else mnottertroll.

Why are you stalking me and running around trying to felchgobble me, as I said, you have your coven of shiteaters, dogshit44, stay! Go over in the corner by your dish and lay down, and shut your retarded fuckhole.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 6:45:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

um, im pretty sure kirata's being sarcastic about the atheist's lack of affirmative action programs.

Yea, sometimes not so easy to convey in forums. On that note, do we feel people those who don't believe in Zeus or Poseidon or say the spirituality of Confucianism as being different ? There were centuries where those gods and leaders were the gospel...ruled society in their own way.

As for the compatibility of science and religion...of course scientists can be religious as a personal matter of having faith. The religious can be scientists. I don't see any problem here.

One overriding factor may be, that the religious and the scientist...understand the difference.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 1/5/2017 6:49:28 AM >

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 7:28:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Why should we hope not ? Why should any so-called atheist be shamed at all. How is it that those, simply for not believing in the supernatural, are to be treated or assessed as any different for it ?

Even when I did have faith, I never believed that conferred anything special upon me and now that I don't, I don't believe I am any different than most people who do...except for those that one factor.

I am an anti-theist, others are not...so what ?

Bounty was right. But with that said, there is a difference between not being a theist and being an anti-theist. You most definitely assess religious people differently. They are fascist stooges who believe in bullshit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Religion soon becomes a brand of fascism with the god of your life commanding you, your actions, your thoughts any violation of which can send you...to eternal hell. BULLSHIT !!

K.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 7:37:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

um, im pretty sure kirata's being sarcastic about the atheist's lack of affirmative action programs.

Yea, sometimes not so easy to convey in forums. On that note, do we feel people those who don't believe in Zeus or Poseidon or say the spirituality of Confucianism as being different ? There were centuries where those gods and leaders were the gospel...ruled society in their own way.

As for the compatibility of science and religion...of course scientists can be religious as a personal matter of having faith. The religious can be scientists. I don't see any problem here.

One overriding factor may be, that the religious and the scientist...understand the difference.

I think your last sentence there is a considerable one.

at the same time, and this is something that speaks to research in general and all the more so here---the definition of terms. id be curious to know if the researchers in this instance provided the interviewees with a definition of "incompatible" (likely not) and if not, how then do the individuals answering the question understand the terms.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 7:50:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

As for the compatibility of science and religion...of course scientists can be religious as a personal matter of having faith. The religious can be scientists. I don't see any problem here.

One overriding factor may be, that the religious and the scientist...understand the difference.

I think your last sentence there is a considerable one.

at the same time, and this is something that speaks to research in general and all the more so here---the definition of terms. id be curious to know if the researchers in this instance provided the interviewees with a definition of "incompatible" (likely not) and if not, how then do the individuals answering the question understand the terms.

Given his response, I'd be curious to know how MrRodgers understands the term.

incompatible

1. not compatible; unable to exist together in harmony
2. contrary or opposed in character; discordant
3. that cannot coexist or be conjoined

K.

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 7:55:20 AM

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At the end of the day, this is just a survey of opinions. Who cares?

Science and religion have existed together for centuries -- a better question is why some approaches to each are incompatible, and what that might tell us about those approaches to knowledge/understanding.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 8:09:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

At the end of the day, this is just a survey of opinions. Who cares?

Who cares what people think?

K.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Are Science and Religion incompatible? - 1/5/2017 8:16:37 AM

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To comment on all three. Those scientists who believe there is a divine code to live by and an afterlife in paradise as directed obtained by and through the supernatural, know that they take that...on faith.

That one would subject themselves to a supernatural existence (force if I may) of a supreme god that watches over you from conception to birth, all of your life and even in death and commands upon you his code of behavior or suffer a damnation in hell...is a sadist at best...a mental and psychological fascist at worst. (God fearing ?)

We are to solemnly believe that all humans are born with original sin and are to live continually in the effort of cleansing yourself of that sin and by his word...a pious life, by his rules and even in what and how you think...or else. That's living under a spiritual, emotional and psychological dictator.

As Prof. Mortimer Adler (baptized in his 50's) often explained, he knew that his new middle-aged, religious belief, was a...leap of faith.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 1/5/2017 8:19:10 AM >

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Musicmystery)

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