quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

You see, this is where the argument gets problematic.

By simply asserting that there is no discrepancy in pay for Men over women, and that women are the only ones being oppressed, you limit the argument and produce a bias which only endears dislike and distrust of those making the claim.

Shame that's not what I'm asserting. Nice strawman though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

ive read over and over in what ive posted that when all things are controlled for as much as possible, the "pay gap" disappears down to a nickel, and when other likely variables that cannot be controlled for are added in, that nickel disappears.

you say what I just said explains part of the wage gap but not all. that's in direct contradiction to what ive posted by multiple sources citing multiple studies.

so show studies then where everythings been controlled for, and women are making significantly less.

your last point about promotions/proportions in relation to choice vs structural inequality---also then, show the studies where those aspects of employment are considered and women are coming out significantly on the short end of the stick.

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ORIGINAL: stef
Yes, all those dangerous tech jobs where men still make significantly more than women. Bigly danger. Huge, even. We should have a ribbon campaign for all the manly men who give their lives on a daily basis in the bit mines.

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ORIGINAL: Awareness

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ORIGINAL: stef
Yes, all those dangerous tech jobs where men still make significantly more than women. Bigly danger. Huge, even. We should have a ribbon campaign for all the manly men who give their lives on a daily basis in the bit mines.

Women make less in tech because they're not as good at it as men are. When their gender is hidden, they score worse on entry criteria than they do when their gender is known.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

????

If
then
else

while
do

do
until



they dont know how to do that, they do that worse then men?

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ORIGINAL: masmiss
You don't say. I wonder how it is, then, that I recently was able to negotiate a fabulous salary because I am in demand in quite a few places because of my exquisite skills.
My gender was never an issue.

Hmmm.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome
Not here. We are merely asserting that the pay gap still exists. Nothing more.

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These figures do not show differences in rates of pay for comparable jobs, and are affected by, for example, the proportion of men and women in different occupations.

More women work part-time than men, leading to a larger overall pay gap

A higher proportion of women work in jobs that tend to be lower paid

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While there is no single measure that fully deals with the complex issue of the differences between men’s and women’s pay, in this bulletin we use median hourly earnings (excluding overtime). Including overtime can skew the results because men work relatively more overtime than women, and using hourly earnings better accounts for the fact that men work on average more hours per week than women. The median is less affected by a relatively small number of very high earners than the mean, and therefore gives a better indication of typical pay. A paper further explaining our position on this topic is available.

It should be noted that the figures do not show differences in rates of pay for comparable jobs, as they are affected by factors such as the proportion of men and women in different occupations. For example, a higher proportion of women work in occupations such as administration and caring, which tend to offer lower salaries.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

????

If
then
else

while
do

do
until



they dont know how to do that, they do that worse then men?

There's more to software engineering than branch control and iteration. While data modelling and algorithmic knowledge are relevant, the primary ability of a programmer is to use abstractions at varying levels of detail.

Generally speaking, introverts who can focus on one thing to an obsessive level tend to make good engineers. Women are less likely to exhibit these personality traits. There are outliers, but that's all they are.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome

I don't need to get into an evidence competition with you, especially since your evidence mainly comprises internet opinion and all you are saying is that you remain unconvinced by what I have written.

quote:

"In fact, when researchers try to control for these differences, the wage gap virtually disappears.

"A recent Glassdoor study that made an honest attempt to get beyond the superficial numbers showed that after controlling for age, education, years of experience, job title, employer, and location, the gender pay gap fell from nearly twenty-five cents on the dollar to around five cents on the dollar. In other words, women are making 95 cents for every dollar men are making, once you compare men and women with similar educational, experiential, and professional characteristics."

"When we examined pay gaps by grade level for the GS population, we found that there was no significant gap between female and male salaries. However, more females were found in lower grades, which may be a reflection of differences in occupational distribution.[5] "

"Many economists have examined how the pay gap changes after controlling for factors that influence pay. Most studies find that observable characteristics explain a large portion of the apparent gap in pay between male and female workers—with differences in occupation and experience having the largest effect. "

"Farrell argues that comparable males and females have been earning similar salaries for decades, though the press has yet to notice. As long ago as the early 1980s, he writes, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics found that companies paid men and women equal money when their titles and responsibilities were the same."

"Accounting for several observable characteristics shows women with the same skills and doing the same jobs as men are paid almost the same amount. Including other factors would probably further shrink the remaining difference.
An apples-to-apples comparison shows women earn almost as much—and quite possibly just as much—as men for doing the same work. Aggregate differences in pay reflect different choices made by individual men and women."

and on and on and on...

quote:

•Men go into technology and hard sciences more than women.

•Men tend to take more stressful jobs that are not "nine-to-five."

•Men are more likely to work longer hours, and the pay gap widens for every hour past 40 per week.

•Women are more likely to have "gaps" in their careers, primarily because of child rearing and child care. Less experience means lower pay.