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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: MakeM3Urs

Adopt the French system that takes half your income in taxes, but provides for all healthcare costs and retirement benefits.

With income tax, State tax, property tax, sales tax and on and on, they already do take half.

Well, looking as you do from a perspective of moral relativism, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Keep your eye on that voice mental patient. It's probably the stupidest thing you've said in a while. I won't even try to explain the idiocy. That voice is not your friend.

You are the feclgobbling nutsucker who retardedly cast yourself as a moral relativist when you meant mentally deficient toiletlicker, wilbur.

Actually no. That was sarcasm for the morally deficient leftist. If one or two of your other voices had been paying attention mental patient, I'm sure you would have caught that. I know you would have. That's why I said it was stupid. Obviously you were a couple of voices down.

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: BoscoX

It is immoral, for many reasons

You have to take the money away from someone to do it, that's stealing. Government is notoriously corrupt and inefficient, so it is wasteful. Politicians use taxpayer money to buy votes with such programs, so motivations are very often impure

For the same reasons you can't provide people with everything you need as I suggested above, it is cruel to get people hooked and dependent on government handouts, especially when government may not always be there. Our current debt is unsustainable and something's got to give

money isnt "moral"

From a morally relativistic position that's nonsense, yet I don't expect you to understand.

As you are a conservative american talking about moral relativism
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAH

Absolutely. Using sarcasm to point out the idiocy of you discussing morals. I do notice the other sock already made the same mistaken comment.

ANd I pointed out you have no place to come from regarding knowledge or morality. that wasnt sarcasm, you thought it meant something

But...how would you know? Oh...mind reading.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

almost anything that doesn't emphasize movement towards a free market is a non-starter for me. I haven't followed closely enough to say for sure but I suspect that's the freedom caucus folks' main objection too.

anything with the government involved is going to be Obamacare-lite. unfortunately, once you "give" something to someone, no matter even if its bad, taking it back is a challenge.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

almost anything that doesn't emphasize movement towards a free market is a non-starter for me. I haven't followed closely enough to say for sure but I suspect that's the freedom caucus folks' main objection too.

anything with the government involved is going to be Obamacare-lite. unfortunately, once you "give" something to someone, no matter even if its bad, taking it back is a challenge.

Yes it is bad to help the aged and poor to receive decent healthcare. Hell all it would take is a 1 percent GDP drop in defense spending for us and our allies paying their agreed but never matched share and we could all have good reasonable priced if not free healthcare. Or lets pay a few more dollars each in taxes to help those less fortunate... oh wait I forgot Christians are not supposed to help the sick and poor...they are to say fuck them freeloaders.

Butch

quote:

The AHCA was DOA on the First Day.

Why? It wasn’t repeal—and then the bill was pushed on a premise of “replace.”

Obamacare does not need to be replaced, either. Government intervention is not needed. If I go to the doctor, I do not want Big Mamma Government telling me to turn my head and cough.

This whole “AHCA Y—M-C-A!” (with apologies to the Village People!) has been an overwrought snake oil scam. This Obamacare debacle is already dead, from the moment that the Democratic hordes forced it onto us, and Grandma Pelosi announcing: “We had to pass the bill so that you can see what’s it in.”

Worse has transpired. We have experienced what it’s done to the economy, the insurance industry, and our health care systems.

• Businesses cut hours, laid off workers, or never expanded.

• Medical staffers (from doctors down to the nurses’ aides) are fleeing the profession.

• Hospitals are closing.

• Local clinics are shutting down, not because of the lack of patient demand, but because the number of qualified professionals has plummeted.

The paperwork, the bureaucratese, the lack of reimbursements, the stellar invasion of Washington DC into rural and Main Street doctors’ offices have turned the health care profession into a nightmare.

Oh, and waiting times have increased by at least 30%, per the latest study.

[but this is all okay, because democrats really care and the evil republicans (and Christians too!) don't]

No Obamacare replacement was ever needed. A full repeal is just what the doctor ordered. Were Republicans trying too hard or going to fast? No. The same corporate interests which have pulled strings, written checks, and cornered elected officials were back in business...

With right and wrong, there is no room for compromise. Do I want a little poison in my cereal, as opposed to a lot? Whether a little or a lot, it will kill me. No compromises, no half-way consequences...

quote:

Conservatives often talk about the importance of a free market to improve health care quality and lower costs. What would it look like? An example could be found in the development of LASIK surgery.

Dr. Craig Beyer, a practicing ophthalmologist and LASIK surgeon, was part of the team that performed the world’s first laser vision correction procedure and was one of the first to perform experimental LASIK surgery in 1988. Since then, he’s seen the quality of LASIK improve without the price dramatically increasing. He says this is because ophthalmology functions like the free market.

[whaaaaat? better quality without a commensurate increase in cost? damn that free market!]

“LASIK is a transparent procedure,” Beyer said. “You don’t have the layers and layers of bureaucracy that a third-party payment system requires.”

Beyer said his patients know exactly what they want and what it should cost. The free-market system allows for competition and allows people to shop around to make sure they get the surgeon and experience they want.

Beyer’s positive experience in the LASIK industry helps frame his arguments against Obamacare — a system he feels is “dysfunctional.” He fears Obamacare will harm the doctor-patient relationship and decrease the incentive for quality health care. People will go to the doctor and be treated like a number because physicians will only be thinking, “What diagnosis code fits this patient, and how do I get paid for it?” Beyer said.

[what does he know though, he's just a doctor--probably a Christian republican too!]

He’s also concerned that Obamacare’s massive price control and administrative costs are too much like the current Medicare system.

“How could anyone completely ignore the massive financial problems within the current unsustainable Medicare system only to create another much larger health program with all the same features?” Beyer said.

Indeed, as Heritage expert Alyene Senger has explained:

quote:

Third-party payment arrangements are already compromising the independence and integrity of the medical profession, and Obamacare reinforces the worst of these features. Specifically, physicians will be subject to more government regulation and oversight, and will be increasingly dependent on unreliable government reimbursement for medical services.

The enactment of Obamacare inspired Beyer to write Heaven or Health in 2012, a book about his ideas on a health care system that is transparent and allows for competition and quality. He also posts regularly on Doctors Against Obamacare, the advocacy page he started on Facebook to collect stories and information about the harmful effects of Obamacare.

["doctors against obamacare??" oh they must be purely motivated by greed and not a desire to do what's best for patients!]

“It’s our lives,” Beyer stressed. “Do we really want to delegate the care of our lives to self-interested third parties and bureaucratic decision makers?”

Our experts in the Center for Health Policy Studies have put together a conservative alternative to Obamacare that explains how a free-market health care system can work. It’s a plan designed to put patients and their quality of care first.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

"Speaker Paul Ryan: You’re Fired"

quote:

The AHCA was DOA on the First Day.

Why? It wasn’t repeal—and then the bill was pushed on a premise of “replace.”

Obamacare does not need to be replaced, either. Government intervention is not needed. If I go to the doctor, I do not want Big Mamma Government telling me to turn my head and cough.

This whole “AHCA Y—M-C-A!” (with apologies to the Village People!) has been an overwrought snake oil scam. This Obamacare debacle is already dead, from the moment that the Democratic hordes forced it onto us, and Grandma Pelosi announcing: “We had to pass the bill so that you can see what’s it in.”

Worse has transpired. We have experienced what it’s done to the economy, the insurance industry, and our health care systems.

• Businesses cut hours, laid off workers, or never expanded.

• Medical staffers (from doctors down to the nurses’ aides) are fleeing the profession.

• Hospitals are closing.

• Local clinics are shutting down, not because of the lack of patient demand, but because the number of qualified professionals has plummeted.

The paperwork, the bureaucratese, the lack of reimbursements, the stellar invasion of Washington DC into rural and Main Street doctors’ offices have turned the health care profession into a nightmare.

Oh, and waiting times have increased by at least 30%, per the latest study.

[but this is all okay, because democrats really care and the evil republicans (and Christians too!) don't]

No Obamacare replacement was ever needed. A full repeal is just what the doctor ordered. Were Republicans trying too hard or going to fast? No. The same corporate interests which have pulled strings, written checks, and cornered elected officials were back in business...

With right and wrong, there is no room for compromise. Do I want a little poison in my cereal, as opposed to a lot? Whether a little or a lot, it will kill me. No compromises, no half-way consequences...

https://townhall.com/columnists/arthurschaper/2017/03/27/speaker-paul-ryan-youre-fired-n2304542

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

almost anything that doesn't emphasize movement towards a free market is a non-starter for me. I haven't followed closely enough to say for sure but I suspect that's the freedom caucus folks' main objection too.

anything with the government involved is going to be Obamacare-lite. unfortunately, once you "give" something to someone, no matter even if its bad, taking it back is a challenge.

Yes it is bad to help the aged and poor to receive decent healthcare. Hell all it would take is a 1 percent GDP drop in defense spending for us and our allies paying their agreed but never matched share and we could all have good reasonable priced if not free healthcare. Or lets pay a few more dollars each in taxes to help those less fortunate... oh wait I forgot Christians are not supposed to help the sick and poor...they are to say fuck them freeloaders.

Butch

its really difficult to be gentle in response when someone seemingly willfully distorts the positions held by the other side, especially when that very issue has been addressed not only in multiple threads since ive been here, but in this very thread itself.

and i'll just leave it at that and hope you are wise enough to see what a fool you just were---or maybe are?