Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (Full Version)

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WickedsDesire -> Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 7:04:16 AM)

Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks

Cladding on 27 tower blocks in 15 council areas in England has failed fire safety tests, the government says.

This comes after Camden Council became the first authority to evacuate residents over fire safety concerns, asking people living in four high-rise buildings to leave late on Friday.

The council said it had no option but to move residents of 650 flats on the Chalcots estate while work takes place.

And that is so far - there is no way the couldn't have known. The manufacturers will be legally compelled to do rigorous Quality Assurance and safety the cladding. I am not sure who else would be legally obligated to carry out additional checks

The article goes onto say The Metropolitan Police say manslaughter, health and safety, and fire safety charges will be considered in relation to that blaze.

There are those of us who remember the miners strike - not one public inquiry
Hillsborough disaster which occurred in 1989 and at its 4th public inquiry in 2016 returned a damming verdict against the Police. I think Liverpudlians boycott the Sun even till today? One of Rubert Murdoch Vile tabloids. Kenny Dalglish attended every funeral didn't he -or was it him and as many representatives from LFC? Whenever i see him he has a haunted look about him even until this day

As far as I am aware no-one has ever been charged - prosecuted for either.



tj444 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 8:41:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks

Cladding on 27 tower blocks in 15 council areas in England has failed fire safety tests, the government says.

This comes after Camden Council became the first authority to evacuate residents over fire safety concerns, asking people living in four high-rise buildings to leave late on Friday.

The council said it had no option but to move residents of 650 flats on the Chalcots estate while work takes place.

And that is so far - there is no way the couldn't have known. The manufacturers will be legally compelled to do rigorous Quality Assurance and safety the cladding. I am not sure who else would be legally obligated to carry out additional checks

The article goes onto say The Metropolitan Police say manslaughter, health and safety, and fire safety charges will be considered in relation to that blaze.

There are those of us who remember the miners strike - not one public inquiry
Hillsborough disaster which occurred in 1989 and at its 4th public inquiry in 2016 returned a damming verdict against the Police. I think Liverpudlians boycott the Sun even till today? One of Rubert Murdoch Vile tabloids. Kenny Dalglish attended every funeral didn't he -or was it him and as many representatives from LFC? Whenever i see him he has a haunted look about him even until this day

As far as I am aware no-one has ever been charged - prosecuted for either.


jmo but i think they should all rip all that shite off each & every building and just paint the exteriors & put safe insulation on the inside.. and sue the manufacturer, the installation company, the distributor, the testing companies that said it was safe, the architect/designer that recommended that shite, etc for the original costs, removal & repair.. they should also prosecute the CEOs of those companies..

at least one council is evacuating residents, that puts pressure on the others to do the same.. i expect all the council heads are having serious chats with their lawyers right now...

I have looked at some of the pics/vids of the fire.. in some pics of the ground you can see strips laying there on the ground after flying off the building, I think those strips were the strips of fireblocking that was supposed to make this shite cladding "safe" & stop any cladding fire from spreading.. but I dont think they did a damn thing as imo the intense fire just went around it and once the flamable insulation burned away the strips just fell to the ground.. Like I said before, I hate manufacturers that put unsafe shite out there for unsuspecting paying customers to find the flaws for them, or just keep selling shite that they already know is dangerous...



PeonForHer -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 9:15:18 AM)

quote:

jmo but i think they should all rip all that shite off each & every building and just paint the exteriors


Actually, I'm not sure that paint would be fireproof.



WhoreMods -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 9:26:31 AM)

If they clad buildings with that stuff they'd probably refuse to repaint the exteriors unless they can get hold of paint with lead in it.



tj444 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 1:47:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

jmo but i think they should all rip all that shite off each & every building and just paint the exteriors


Actually, I'm not sure that paint would be fireproof.


interesting but.... there is apparently fire resistant paint on the market.. (see demonstration vid below with actual sheds set on fire, one with the fire resistant paint & one with no paint & a second demo of sheds butted to each other).. also there are flame retardant additives you can add to regular paint (I dont know how those compare tho).. Thats a pretty interesting vid, actually.. I think Ima gonna go out and buy me some... lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEG5C55UqUo



PeonForHer -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:11:17 PM)

I think all the rules change when you start to talk of a twenty-storey, or more, building. A somewhat fire-retardant paint is fine for a two or three storey building, but it's a different thing for a building that big. The heat would have a chance to build up to a horrifying temperature.

... Or so I'd imagine. Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever seen a very tall building that's actually been painted. Still, I suppose that's partly because it would be too difficult, costly and inconvenient to maintain the paintwork on a very high building. I mean, it would require being entirely covered in scaffolding every ten years to be repainted. Nope. Whatever's on the outside of a skyscraper has to be super-durable.



PeonForHer -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:12:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

If they clad buildings with that stuff they'd probably refuse to repaint the exteriors unless they can get hold of paint with lead in it.

Now, I think you're being rather cynical there, WM.



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:24:04 PM)

It's surprising that greta hasn't been here explaining how that 'accident ' that caused the fire, that should never have happened and wasn't an accident after all, but a fault in a freezer that everybody should have known about and known it was going to cause a fire and take responisibility for what happened.

Does that make sense ? No, I didn't think it would !! It's called g-logic



PeonForHer -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:25:45 PM)

Has anybody investigated whether it was a Muslim fridge-freezer? I think we should be told.



WhoreMods -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:26:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

If they clad buildings with that stuff they'd probably refuse to repaint the exteriors unless they can get hold of paint with lead in it.

Now, I think you're being rather cynical there, WM.

Quite true.
They probably could get some sort of waiver to use paint with lead in it if they put in a low enough bid to do so, and it's ridiculous to think that they couldn't arrange that under this government or any of the other governments since lead paint was banned...



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:26:42 PM)

Funny, saraah ( my lady) was actually in Camden Market yesterday with her brother and they saw the beginnings of the dramas there as the blocks of flats were being emptied. she said she saw it was starting was starting as chaos and would probably get worse rapidly, so they left before that came about



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:27:48 PM)

Or it was halal paint



WhoreMods -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:29:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Or it was halal paint

With beef tallow in it to make it more flammable?



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:32:25 PM)

and some lamb/mutton fat too, because that stuff has a much lower flash-point and tends to boil all over everything and anything in it's path



tj444 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:33:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I think all the rules change when you start to talk of a twenty-storey, or more, building. A somewhat fire-retardant paint is fine for a two or three storey building, but it's a different thing for a building that big. The heat would have a chance to build up to a horrifying temperature.

... Or so I'd imagine. Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever seen a very tall building that's actually been painted. Still, I suppose that's partly because it would be too difficult, costly and inconvenient to maintain the paintwork on a very high building. I mean, it would require being entirely covered in scaffolding every ten years to be repainted. Nope. Whatever's on the outside of a skyscraper has to be super-durable.


Personally, I wouldnt bother to paint concrete but then there were rich people complaining about how bad it looked so of course something had to be done so as not to offend their delicate eyes.. but I expect they think it looks worse now than before the reno...



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:36:33 PM)

I agree tj. If I had any authority I would order that it be left up there for them to admire under the excuse that it was too dangerous to take down.



tj444 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:39:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Funny, saraah ( my lady) was actually in Camden Market yesterday with her brother and they saw the beginnings of the dramas there as the blocks of flats were being emptied. she said she saw it was starting was starting as chaos and would probably get worse rapidly, so they left before that came about


I read that 4,000 were evacuated in all those particular buildings.. seems like some got housed in hotels and others in temporary accommodations (does that mean a cot in a sea of cots in a cold dank smelly sports arena?).. Given the cock-up with the cladding, I cant imagine that anyone in charge knows wtf they are doing..



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 2:44:56 PM)

If they know what's happening or who might possibly be to blame, they are, right now, heading for some country with which there is no extradition treaty with U.K



jlf1961 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 4:21:16 PM)

As much as I would like to find humor in this catastrophic event, it is not even remotely possible.

Now, when you consider that most contractors around the world get the jobs by bidding on them, and if they actually come in UNDER the amount bid, well that is that much more profit.

So, by all means, lets use substandard materials that might ignite like a gasoline soaked rag sprinkled with white phosphorus, big deal, the people that die in the fire is no one the contractor knows.

If it happens to be a building that lower income families will be living in, so much the better, eliminate a drain on the national tax revenues.

Basically, to use the British term, it was not a cock up, but more like a "lets save money on building the damn thing, the odds are against a fire of that size."




tj444 -> RE: Cladding fire tests failed by 27 high-rise blocks (6/24/2017 7:40:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

If they know what's happening or who might possibly be to blame, they are, right now, heading for some country with which there is no extradition treaty with U.K


Ah yes.. who to blame.. well, emails may be quite telling, according to this.... I also read that the police are considering manslaughter charges.. the brochures seem to be pretty clear that these are fuking dangerous panels to use.. and yet they were used..

"Arconic knowingly supplied flammable panels for use in tower: emails
Diagrams in a 2016 Arconic brochure for its Reynobond panels describe how PE core panels are suitable up to 10 meters in height. Panels with a fire resistant core -- the FR model -- can be used up to 30 meters, while above that height, panels with the non-combustible core -- the A2 model -- should be used, the brochure says.

Grenfell Tower is more than 60 meters tall.

The brochure also issued a blunt warning that cladding can be a fire risk.

"When conceiving a building, it is crucial to choose the adapted products in order to avoid the fire to spread to the whole building. Especially when it comes to facades and roofs, the fire can spread extremely rapidly," the brochure said.

"As soon as the building is higher than the fire fighters’ ladders, it has to be conceived with an incombustible material." Nonetheless, between May and July 2014, French, who was based at Arconic's factory in Merxheim, France, responded to requests from the companies involved in refurbishing Grenfell Tower on the availability of samples of five different types of Reynobond aluminum-covered panels, all of which were only available in the combustible PE and FR versions, according to Arconic brochures.

Arconic, which was known as Alcoa Inc until 2016, declined to say if it knew how tall the tower was and the emails seen by Reuters do not specifically refer to its height. They do, however, refer to "Grenfell Tower" and mention other high rise projects where paneling has been used when discussing the appearance that was being sought for Grenfell Tower.

Arconic also knew the quantity of panels being supplied and thus the total exterior coverage. A source at one of the companies involved in the process said Arconic had "full involvement" throughout the contract bidding process.

On Sunday, British finance minister Philip Hammond said the type of panels used, which are cheaper than non-combustible panels, were banned for use in high rise buildings in Britain, as they are in Europe and the United States."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-fire-arconic-idUSKBN19F05M



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