quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Even as IS is routed on the battlefield, the Islamist ideology will live on, and we are likely to see an increase in guerilla tactics in Syria/Iraq and suicide attacks in Europe. How then can the vicious Islamist ideology be defeated? Are we doomed to live with IS's atrocities for the foreseeable future?
Your thoughts .....

quote:

Are we doomed to live with IS's atrocities for the foreseeable future?

quote:

How then can the vicious Islamist ideology be defeated?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
What will we do?

There is nothing "WE" can do. We should have learned our lesson... It is a religion and people of hate... they hate each other but they hate us more. All we have ever done, for the sake of oil, is stir a hornets nest and directed their hate at us. They are on the whole a backward people fighting to hold on to a way of life that fits the 6th century better than today.

Now that we are mostly energy self sufficient we should get out of that hell whole and just let them butcher each other. If we must deal with them then deal according to our fair minded values and not who has the most oil resources.

To me we should also withdraw our support from Israel... Without our support they will be forced to negotiate in good faith for their survival. If they will not do that then let war determine the winner... the only way this will end is with a winner... which of course means they both lose.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
And how many innocent people died to achieve this glorious victory?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

One look at a map will show you why we will all continue to keep Turkey as an ally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
And how many innocent people died to achieve this glorious victory?

What was the problem anyway

They were just jv, right

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

One look at a map will show you why we will all continue to keep Turkey as an ally.

This.

Far more important to have a democratic Turkey which respects human rights as the bulwark against Islamic extremism.

There's the rub though. Turkey's going all right wing and populist, which means worse international relations, problems with NATO, issues with internal minority rights and potential political corruption. All of which does not bode well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
And how many innocent people died to achieve this glorious victory?

quote:


IX.

They say it was a shocking sight
After the field was won,
For many thousand bodies here
Lay rotting in the sun;
But things like that you know must be
After a famous victory.

X.

Great praise the Duke of Marlbro' won,
And our good Prince Eugene.—
Why 'twas a very wicked thing!
Said little Wilhelmine.
Nay—nay—my little girl, quoth he,
It was a famous victory.

XI.

And every body praised the Duke
Who such a fight did win.
But what good came of it at last?—
Quoth little Peterkin.
Why that I cannot tell, said he,
But 'twas a famous victory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

One look at a map will show you why we will all continue to keep Turkey as an ally.

This.

Far more important to have a democratic Turkey which respects human rights as the bulwark against Islamic extremism.

There's the rub though. Turkey's going all right wing and populist, which means worse international relations, problems with NATO, issues with internal minority rights and potential political corruption. All of which does not bode well.

That may well be the geopolitical situation, and its certainly true that Turkey is ultra paranoid about Kurdish independence. However the "facts on the ground" complicate this enormously.

The Kurds have skillfully built de facto independent mini-Kurdistans in the Kurdish regions of Iraq and Syria. The Kurds took advantage of the chaos in post-invasion Iraq to create their own self administered statelet around their capital Erbil. In Syria, Kurds have led the fight against the thugs of IS, and the lands seized from IS (at great cost in lives and treasure) set up another mini-Kurdistan. The two mini-Kurdistans are contiguous geographically. From a Kurdish perspective, the only remaining major area of Kurdistan still under non-Kurdish rule is the Kurdish region of South West Turkey, which adjoin the Kurdish regions in Syria and Iraq.

Turkey is very sensitive to any suggestion of creating a Kurdistan, a Kurdish state that would unite these three areas. They view the Kurds as terrorists, and are pretty ruthless in suppressing Turkey's Kurds. They have sent troops into Iraq to try to forestall moves there by Kurd to increase their independence from Baghdad. While the Kurds are formidable militarily, having acquired arms and experience from the fight to dislodge IS, the Turks are vastly more powerful militarily. Turkey remains implacable against any moves towards recognising Kurdish rights to self determination and nationhood.

So, the situation in the Kurdish areas of all three countries - Turkey Iraq and Syria - remains fluid, and the possibility of IS taking advantage of this, regrouping and recovering some of the territory they have lost cannot be discounted. Nor can the possibility of large scale Turkish intervention in either or both of Syria and Iraq. The trend within Turkey towards right wing jingoistic nationalism makes the possibilities either a peaceful resolution or Turkish concessions towards Kurdish independence even more remote

It is difficult to see a resolution of the Kurdish question without further bloodshed. The history of the Kurds is one of a people betrayed by the Great Powers, who have repeatedly promised the Kurds their homeland only to renege on these promises, leaving the Kurdish people vulnerable to savage and ruthless oppression from the various Govts in Turkey, Iraq and Syria. I'm afraid to say that the probablity of this history being repeated seems the most likely outcome at the moment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
That may well be the geopolitical situation, and its certainly true that Turkey is ultra paranoid about Kurdish independence. However the "facts on the ground" complicate this enormously.

The Kurds have skillfully built de facto independent mini-Kurdistans in the Kurdish regions of Iraq and Syria. The Kurds took advantage of the chaos in post-invasion Iraq to create their own self administered statelet around their capital Erbil. In Syria, Kurds have led the fight against the thugs of IS, and the lands seized from IS (at great cost in lives and treasure) set up another mini-Kurdistan. The two mini-Kurdistans are contiguous geographically. From a Kurdish perspective, the only remaining major area of Kurdistan still under non-Kurdish rule is the Kurdish region of South West Turkey, which adjoin the Kurdish regions in Syria and Iraq.

Turkey is very sensitive to any suggestion of creating a Kurdistan, a Kurdish state that would unite these three areas. They view the Kurds as terrorists, and are pretty ruthless in suppressing Turkey's Kurds. They have sent troops into Iraq to try to forestall moves there by Kurd to increase their independence from Baghdad. While the Kurds are formidable militarily, having acquired arms and experience from the fight to dislodge IS, the Turks are vastly more powerful militarily. Turkey remains implacable against any moves towards recognising Kurdish rights to self determination and nationhood.

So, the situation in the Kurdish areas of all three countries - Turkey Iraq and Syria - remains fluid, and the possibility of IS taking advantage of this, regrouping and recovering some of the territory they have lost cannot be discounted. Nor can the possibility of large scale Turkish intervention in either or both of Syria and Iraq. The trend within Turkey towards right wing jingoistic nationalism makes the possibilities either a peaceful resolution or Turkish concessions towards Kurdish independence even more remote

It is difficult to see a resolution of the Kurdish question without further bloodshed. The history of the Kurds is one of a people betrayed by the Great Powers, who have repeatedly promised the Kurds their homeland only to renege on these promises, leaving the Kurdish people vulnerable to savage and ruthless oppression from the various Govts in Turkey, Iraq and Syria. I'm afraid to say that the probablity of this history being repeated seems the most likely outcome at the moment.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

One look at a map will show you why we will all continue to keep Turkey as an ally.

This.

Far more important to have a democratic Turkey which respects human rights as the bulwark against Islamic extremism.

There's the rub though. Turkey's going all right wing and populist, which means worse international relations, problems with NATO, issues with internal minority rights and potential political corruption. All of which does not bode well.

That may well be the geopolitical situation, and its certainly true that Turkey is ultra paranoid about Kurdish independence. However the "facts on the ground" complicate this enormously.

The Kurds have skillfully built de facto independent mini-Kurdistans in the Kurdish regions of Iraq and Syria. The Kurds took advantage of the chaos in post-invasion Iraq to create their own self administered statelet around their capital Erbil. In Syria, Kurds have led the fight against the thugs of IS, and the lands seized from IS (at great cost in lives and treasure) set up another mini-Kurdistan. The two mini-Kurdistans are contiguous geographically. From a Kurdish perspective, the only remaining major area of Kurdistan still under non-Kurdish rule is the Kurdish region of South West Turkey, which adjoin the Kurdish regions in Syria and Iraq.

Turkey is very sensitive to any suggestion of creating a Kurdistan, a Kurdish state that would unite these three areas. They view the Kurds as terrorists, and are pretty ruthless in suppressing Turkey's Kurds. They have sent troops into Iraq to try to forestall moves there by Kurd to increase their independence from Baghdad. While the Kurds are formidable militarily, having acquired arms and experience from the fight to dislodge IS, the Turks are vastly more powerful militarily. Turkey remains implacable against any moves towards recognising Kurdish rights to self determination and nationhood.

So, the situation in the Kurdish areas of all three countries - Turkey Iraq and Syria - remains fluid, and the possibility of IS taking advantage of this, regrouping and recovering some of the territory they have lost cannot be discounted. Nor can the possibility of large scale Turkish intervention in either or both of Syria and Iraq. The trend within Turkey towards right wing jingoistic nationalism makes the possibilities either a peaceful resolution or Turkish concessions towards Kurdish independence even more remote

It is difficult to see a resolution of the Kurdish question without further bloodshed. The history of the Kurds is one of a people betrayed by the Great Powers, who have repeatedly promised the Kurds their homeland only to renege on these promises, leaving the Kurdish people vulnerable to savage and ruthless oppression from the various Govts in Turkey, Iraq and Syria. I'm afraid to say that the probablity of this history being repeated seems the most likely outcome at the moment.

All this is certainly true.

With overlapping state and national interests, a "solution" would seem optimistic - the question is whether whatever imperfect and uneasy compromise can maintain the semblance of peace. Seductive though it would be to end Kurdish grievances by creating a united Kurdistan, the destabilising effect on the other countries and the interests of other cultural minorities would not be straightforward.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Even as IS is routed on the battlefield, the Islamist ideology will live on, and we are likely to see an increase in guerilla tactics in Syria/Iraq and suicide attacks in Europe. How then can the vicious Islamist ideology be defeated? Are we doomed to live with IS's atrocities for the foreseeable future?
Your thoughts .....

quote:

Are we doomed to live with IS's atrocities for the foreseeable future?

Sadly, I think we are, because....

quote:

How then can the vicious Islamist ideology be defeated?

'Bombing them back to the stone age' won't do it. How many times have we (mainly the US) done that and it not worked? Chop off one head, and another or 3 emerge in its stead. To deal with the hate, we need to change people's hearts and minds. That takes quite a bit longer, initially. But, get 'er started and it will snowball until those who still hate are the outcast minority.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Their bloodthirsty god is the god of the jews.