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LadyPact -> RE: Awesome scene lined up (8/10/2017 1:58:53 PM)
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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I'm not sure it matters much. None of it is very unexpected.
I *have* spent the last 25 years thinking about this ya know. [;)]
LOL. Still..
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That's the thing though... is not over.
As it stands Cali has consent in perpetuity to come and kidnap me any time he wants, providing Ullr signed off on it.
He has my address. He has full consent. There would be no discussion about it.
At some point, maybe in a few weeks, maybe a few months, maybe next year, maybe in a few years, he IS going to kidnap me, and we're doing this again. I have no idea when or for how long.
I ain't letting him into my head more than I please, because our game isn't over yet.
Which is actually different than where I was coming from because I've never done a repeat with the same captive. I know that one of the captives has repeated, but I no longer lived in the area when it was done again, so that was something of my loss.
No offense to you, (not that I enjoy your suffering or anything) but I'm glad you're not done. For you in particular, I think it would be great for you to have the take down part of the capture be a part of the experience. (I can't imagine anyone who enjoys force not wanting to opportunity to resist.) I'm not sure that would have been practical at all in the scenario of you being forcibly taken from the host hotel. I have to say, I'm pretty much in agreement with the 'don't bring the kink into the public areas of the hotel' thing, because it would suck to risk the contract next year with the host hotel, and it puts the host hotel staff in a bad position.
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Ullr was really good about keeping his mouth shut. We discussed it, and he's a resource for Cali to draw advice from, but he's not necessarily on Cali's side, giving him all the info either. He's more like a referee, trying to remain impartial.
I know Cali talked to Ullr about his headspace and experience to, in a level of detail he hasn't with me, and Ullr isn't sharing that with me either. He's a source for both of us to talk to, but not a communication relay between the two.
That's really good to hear. Just from my perspective, to do this kind of thing, there have to be some areas that are kept quiet IF the participants want to maximize the yield of the experience.
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Part of the fun of the game is Cali figuring this stuff out... part of it is the challenge in finding ways in when I'm trying to keep him out.
Agreed.
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Ullr isn't giving away any cheat codes. He didn't tell Cali, for instance, that I'd be writing my first journal in Flemish, even though he knew about that weeks in advance. [:D]
That's a trick I wouldn't have looked for and frankly, not one that every person would have had the ability to pull off. (Any second language, really.) Definitely have to give you points on that one.
Even if the journals never get shared, I hope they present an opportunity for you. If nothing else, they'll help you connect with the feelings you were experiencing at the time, rather than allowing time to diminish the feeling of impact. I'm probably not articulating this well, so I'll leave it at that.
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I've given him a lot of that, but it's still at my whim.
For example: I told him that the reason I didn't beg to stop more is because I knew it was pointless (wouldn't change anything) and because it was making his cock hard.
So there's a certain pride and satisfaction in 'holding out' on something I knew would increase his pleasure, while he was torturing me. Something to hold on to, to give *me* satisfaction in that moment. This feeling of: "I won't give in and let him have this." was a source of power and strength for me.
There's something about this that is a little different for me. I might be applying it incorrectly for this particular type of scenario because it's something I've added over the years since the last time I was a participant in this kind of thing.
With the changes in social climate in kink, for me to engage in certain activities, I consider it required that I get certain assurances after the experiences are over. The biggest deals for me on this one would fall into the categories of, yes, it was kink, rather than criminal, that the experience was within consent, and that kind of deal. At minimum, I want my tail covered. Without it, I don't even know if I would consider participating. Even on this thread, people have popped off about how they hope people who engage in this kind of thing will end up in jail and that's the attitude that has to be countered.
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However, now I've told him, and now he knows next time that when he get those feeble little hints of begging, that he's just not only managed to get me to beg which makes his dick hard, but he'll realizes the entire weight of the internal struggle within me that went against not begging. He realizes the full extend of the gap he's breached in my defenses.
It'll certainly increase his enjoyment knowing that. Not only now, looking back, but also in the future, when it happens again.
But in granting him that enjoyment by admitting that that's what was going on in my head, I just diminished my own power in that situation. I took away one of the weapons I had to cope with the situation. I just made it easier for him to hurt me more.
I was quite interested in how the two of you interpreted the begging differently.
(Of course, I can't quite comment about how certain things in S//m would 'make my dick hard,' because then I'd have to listen to morons tell me about how I must be a male for the next month or so.)
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So it's all good and well that you -and every other goddamn Top interested in this sort of stuff- wants to know what's going on in my head cause you'd enjoy it, there's still the fact that I'm not going to give up all my power by letting ya'll know the full extent of things.
I do so because I think I could learn from it. Not from the sadism angle, but from the educational angle. Would seeing the perspective from the other side change my thoughts about engaging in this again? Would I change my tactics, theories, and ideas?
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Some of it is just mine, and only for me to enjoy... After all, I'm the one who endured it, I should get the full prerogative on those feelings. The Top gets whatever they can extract by themselves, or whatever scraps I graciously decide to toss them because I didn't mind them having it.
If the Top wants more than I gave, it's all the more motivation to get more on their own next time.
For somebody with this attitude, I'd be out.
So, you're the one who "endured" it? Such a self-centered, myopic attitude.
Why weren't you both in it together?
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The same applies for Cali's side of things. I don't want to know what's in his head, because by telling me, he gives up part of his power to me. If I know what's in his head, I can play it. I can play him with the information.
He's much better off trying to manage what I think is in his head by choosing to project what he wants me to think is in his head... and this last round he's proven he's very good at that.
Well, that's good.
We're kind of back to repeat, rather than singular occurrence.
A thought occurs to me. You're still kind of holding on to this power concept. Isn't a loss of power kind of the point?
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Cali is free to share with you any English journals I did for him, if he wants to and is interested. I consider them having been done 'for him' and they're his property. When I did them in English, I gave up control over them, as I didn't have any agreement with him that he wouldn't share them. I've got them transcribed from handwriting to text file, and I'll release them to you -publicly or privately- if he wants me to.
I'm interested, but *not* to put the other person in the position of releasing something they are not willing to give. Considering the fact that there will/might be other encounters, and his own perspective of the events, I'd consider that up to him.
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and he only got them due to unusual circomstances.
That's part of my point.
In my opinion, while it is often discussed greatly, the vast majority of encounters don't have to be called off before their duration. If something falls into that (roughly small) percentage, excuse the expression, but it's a 'come to Jesus' moment. If somebody can't respect the fact that the other person has a serious stance about no longer being willing to continue, I'm probably done with them.
(A caveat to this. I take this very seriously. If a person needs to tap out, I'm all cool with that. At the same time, don't treat me like a fool, coming back to me fifteen minutes later, asking if we can continue. I won't sign up for it.)
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At my whim, because the tidbits of what was going on in my head I've granted him, I've given him for my own amusement, not his.
The man has virtually unlimited power of me when he's got me... he's responsible for getting his own enjoyment out of me, without my help.
I see this in two ways.
As you know, I have a certain position about getting my own out of encounters. If I'm not seeing my own potential out of the experience for my own level of satisfaction, I'm probably not doing it. Nothing on my end? I have a huge distaste for being somebody's prop. You said it,yourself. Nobody is doing these kinds of things out of altruism.
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Touché. [:D]
BTW LP, did you miss this? http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=5060965
I can't imagine you having seen it and it not triggering a dozen more of your excellent questions, so I figure I'd point it out in case it was a matter of 'got posted while I was typing and didn't look back'.
I saw it just as I replied last night. Haven't had the chance, yet. [:)]
In the meantime, I do want to say to you, Cali, and Ullr that I have greatly enjoyed this thread and the thoughts associated with it. I'll explore this further in the future opportunities.
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