RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 4:32:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If they are here illegally, they don't have rights. They are not supposed to be here.

We had this discussion before. Rights guaranteed under the Constitution are not exclusive for citizens. All persons under the jurisdiction of the United States have rights to equal protection under the law.




Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 4:52:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If they are here illegally, they don't have rights. They are not supposed to be here.

We had this discussion before. Rights guaranteed under the Constitution are not exclusive for citizens. All persons under the jurisdiction of the United States have rights to equal protection under the law.



but the constitution gaurantees no rights under it what so ever to the people, the only thing UNDER the constitution is the positive enumeration of gubmint authority.

The Peoples rights are expressed in the negative and they are reserved outside the jurisdiction of gubmint in the Bill of Rights as the living man and woman and they are absolute with the caveat that the right exercized causes no equitable or material damage to another.

How do you reconcile that load you just posted ?

Maybe you are thinking about franchise privileges and immunities? Thats UNDEr the constitution

want to add, this part is 100% correct btw: are not exclusive for citizens




BoscoX -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 5:06:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If they are here illegally, they don't have rights. They are not supposed to be here.

We had this discussion before. Rights guaranteed under the Constitution are not exclusive for citizens. All persons under the jurisdiction of the United States have rights to equal protection under the law.


They're criminal aliens with the right to be deported




Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 5:09:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If they are here illegally, they don't have rights. They are not supposed to be here.



More recently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Zadvydas v. Davis (2001) that "due process" of the 14th Amendment applies to all aliens in the United States whose presence maybe or is "unlawful, involuntary or transitory."

Twenty years before Zadvydas, the Supreme Court ruled that the state of Texas could not enforce a state law that prohibited illegally present children from attending grade schools, as all other Texas children were required to attend.

The court ruled in Plyler that:

The illegal aliens who are ... challenging the state may claim the benefit of the Equal Protection clause which provides that no state shall 'deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.' Whatever his status under immigration laws, an alien is a 'person' in any ordinary sense of the term ... the undocumented status of these children does not establish a sufficient rational basis for denying benefits that the state affords other residents.

A decade before Plyler, the court ruled in Almeida-Sanchez v. United States (1973) that all criminal charge-related elements of the Constitution's amendments (the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and the 14th) such as search and seizure, self-incrimination, trial by jury and due process, protect non-citizens, legally or illegally present.

Three key Supreme Court decisions in 1886, 1896 and 1903 laid the 14th Amendment basis for the consistent ruling of the court that aliens, legal and illegal, have constitutional protection in criminal and certain civil affairs in the justice system.

In Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886), the court ruled that:

Though the law itself be fair on its face, and impartial in appearance, yet, if it is applied and administered by public authority with an evil eye and unequal hand, so as practically to make unjust and illegal discriminations between persons of similar circumstances, material to their rights, the denial of equal justice is still within the prohibition of the Constitution [the 14th Amendment].

In Wong Win v. United States (1896), the court ruled that:

It must be concluded that all persons within the territory of the United States are entitled to the protection by those amendments [Fifth and Sixth] and that even aliens shall not be held to answer for a capital or other infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a grand jury, nor deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

In summary, the entire case of illegal aliens being covered by and protected by the Constitution has been settled law for 129 years and rests on one word: "person." It is the word "person" that connects the dots of "due process" and "equal protection" in the 14th Amendment to the U.S Constitution and it is those five words that make the Constitution of the United States and its 14th amendment the most important political document since the Magna Carta in all world history.

"Aliens," legal and illegal, have the full panoply of constitutional protections American citizens have with three exceptions: voting, some government jobs and gun ownership (and that is now in doubt) — Glenn Beck and others notwithstanding.




vincentML -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 6:40:11 PM)

quote:

but the constitution gaurantees no rights under it what so ever to the people, the only thing UNDER the constitution is the positive enumeration of gubmint authority.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! We’ve seen that circus before. You’re just playing word games. We all know that by common custom we say that our rights are protected UNDER the Constitution. Not going to get caught up in your word games, RO




vincentML -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 6:42:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If they are here illegally, they don't have rights. They are not supposed to be here.

We had this discussion before. Rights guaranteed under the Constitution are not exclusive for citizens. All persons under the jurisdiction of the United States have rights to equal protection under the law.


They're criminal aliens with the right to be deported

And as usual, you are ignorant of the law!




servantforuse -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 6:47:33 PM)

Build the wall. The sooner the better.




vincentML -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 6:49:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Build the wall. The sooner the better.

Not before the fall harvest is completed! Too many Mexicans have gone back home already.




Nnanji -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 7:10:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Build the wall. The sooner the better.

Not before the fall harvest is completed! Too many Mexicans have gone back home already.

As I've said before. Sometimes you are funnier than shit. That's a pretty good one.




Real0ne -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 7:18:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

but the constitution gaurantees no rights under it what so ever to the people, the only thing UNDER the constitution is the positive enumeration of gubmint authority.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! We’ve seen that circus before. You’re just playing word games. We all know that by common custom we say that our rights are protected UNDER the Constitution. Not going to get caught up in your word games, RO



Yes I know all too well the customary laymans language is designed to perpetuate disinformation, knock yourself out, the last thing youd want to do is express it properly to convey the actual meaning. [8|]








servantforuse -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 7:23:01 PM)

When the wall along our southern border is done, we should build another one. Start on the east border of CA and go north until we hit Canada.




BoscoX -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 7:54:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If they are here illegally, they don't have rights. They are not supposed to be here.

We had this discussion before. Rights guaranteed under the Constitution are not exclusive for citizens. All persons under the jurisdiction of the United States have rights to equal protection under the law.


They're criminal aliens with the right to be deported

And as usual, you are ignorant of the law!


You can keep right on pretending in your cartoonish fantasy world that you are Marx's gift to knowledge of the law, while by law criminal aliens are being deported

Your delusions and ten bucks might get you a cup of coffee




cloudboy -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 8:03:23 PM)

Trump Base:

Hillary Clinton cleared of all charges: "guilty."

Arpaio: Convicted of charges: "innocent."

Welcome to identity politics.




Nnanji -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/26/2017 8:11:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Trump Base:

Hillary Clinton cleared of all charges: "guilty."

Arpaio: Convicted of charges: "innocent."

Welcome to identity politics.

May I ask who said Arpaio was innocent? May I ask who cleared Hillary of all charges? Not being prosecuted is not the same as being cleared you see. And that doesn't even include the 33,000 emails she destroyed so they couldn't be FOIA'd.

Yes, identity politics at its finest.




itsSIRtou -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/27/2017 12:43:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

When the wall along our southern border is done, we should build another one. Start on the east border of CA and go north until we hit Canada.



oh? u mean the wall the Mexicans were supposed to be happy to build?? that MEXICO was going to pay for? like never?

the one mexico basically at the outset said hell no to?

OH,....or the wall they were going to pay for thru tariffs and fees? Which they said they'd just charge more for their products to get it out of USA's pockets anyway??

oh wait,...maybe its the wall they were going to pay for it though the trade deficit,....or some sight of hand like that......

or do u mean the wall that rump is now thinking of having a government shutdown over congress not taking YOUR tax money to pay for it?

like billions of YOUR tax money?? that at the beginning of that lie..... that u were NOT going to pay for it?

because he's desperate for SOME kind of a win since his healthcare agenda sucks dead elephant ass?

just checking......






heavyblinker -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/27/2017 1:20:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If they are here illegally, they don't have rights. They are not supposed to be here.

We had this discussion before. Rights guaranteed under the Constitution are not exclusive for citizens. All persons under the jurisdiction of the United States have rights to equal protection under the law.


You mean we can't just go around raping and killing illegal immigrants with no legal repercussions whatsoever?
I had no idea!




tweakabelle -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/27/2017 2:38:10 AM)

Here are the opening paragraphs of Arpaio's wiki page:

"Arpaio styled himself as "America's Toughest Sheriff".[2][3] Starting in 2005, he took an outspoken stance against illegal immigration. In 2010, he became a flashpoint for opposition to Arizona's SB1070 anti-illegal immigrant law, which was largely struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court.[4][5][6][7][8] Arpaio is also known for his investigation of former U.S. President Barack Obama's birth certificate, and his continuing claim that it is forged.[9][10][11][12]

Arpaio has been accused of various types of police misconduct, including abuse of power; misuse of funds; failure to investigate sex crimes; improper clearance of cases; unlawful enforcement of immigration laws; and election law violations. A Federal court monitor was appointed to oversee his office's operations because of complaints of racial profiling. The U.S. Department of Justice concluded that Arpaio oversaw the worst pattern of racial profiling in U.S. history, and subsequently filed suit against him for unlawful discriminatory police conduct.[13][14][15][16]

In November 2016, Arpaio lost re-election to Democrat Paul Penzone, who succeeded him as sheriff on January 1, 2017.[17]

Over the course of his career Arpaio was the subject of several federal civil rights lawsuits. In one case he was a defendant in a decade-long suit in which a federal court issued an injunction barring him from conducting further "immigration round-ups".[18] A federal court subsequently found that after the order was issued, Arpaio's office continued to detain "persons for further investigation without reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is being committed."[18] In July 2017, he was convicted of misdemeanor contempt of court, a crime for which he was pardoned by President Donald Trump on August 25, 2017.[19] In a separate racial-profiling case which concluded in 2013, Arpaio and his subordinates were found to have unfairly targeted Hispanics in conducting traffic stops"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

Not exactly gushing approval or a CV to be proud of is it? There's probably some career criminals with more favourable resumes ...

Trump's pardoning of this racist criminal is yet another unambiguous indicator of his contempt for the law and the courts that uphold it. Combine the pardon with Trump's appalling reaction to the far Right's terrorism at Charlottesville and you get the POTUS as the public protector of racist thugs and a white supremacist sympathiser. Combine his attacks on the law with his virulent attacks on the freedom of the press* and you have systematic attacks on the fundamental institutions of democracy.

Trump's Presidency has ceased to be a short term disaster, a quirk to be remedied at the first available election. We all know what happens when populist heads of state engage in systematic attacks on the basic institutions of democracy. The slippery slope from demagoguery to dictatorship becomes an awful lot shorter.

Trump's systematic attacks on the basic institutions of democracy signal that American democracy itself is being attacked and endangered by this loathsome creature.

* Remember he described the media as the "enemies of the people", a phrase taken straight some of the world's worst, most notorious dictators.




Lucylastic -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/27/2017 2:47:24 AM)

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/prisoners-hang-themselves-in-sheriff-joe-arpaios-jails-at-a-rate-that-dwarfs-other-county-lockups-7845679

Prisoners Hang Themselves in Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Jails at a Rate That Dwarfs Other County Lockups

Six months ago, on May 4, 2015, I asked a spokesman for Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio for a cadaver count.

It was not an idle question.

Since he was elected sheriff in 1993, county taxpayers have shelled out more than $140 million to litigate — and ultimately settle — claims of brutality by the sheriff's deputies. Lawsuits charge that the sheriff has cultivated a "culture of cruelty" motivated by Arpaio's incessant trumpeting that he is America's toughest lawman.

But even if you could kill and maim the indigent and the lawless for free, do we really want a medieval penal system?

So it is a simple, if morbid, question: How many body bags?

Sheriff Joe Arpaio has refused to answer. His spokesman, Lieutenant Brandon James, said doing the math would take a few weeks.

It's been six months.

Searching other databases (the Office of the County Medical Examiner's and the Office of Risk Management's, as well as the U.S. Department of Justice's) revealed that close to 160 people have died in Arpaio's jails.

From back in 2015...

Another one from back in 2015

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/aug/21/arizona-phoenix-concentration-camp-tent-city-jail-joe-arpaio-immigration
‘Hitler! Hitler!” the prisoners chanted to the TV cameras in protest. It was 4 February 2009. More than 200 Latino men in black-and-white striped uniforms, shackled to each other, were being marched towards an outdoor unit especially for “illegal alien” prisoners in Arizona’s infamous jail, Tent City.

The chants were directed at the Maricopa County sheriff, Joe Arpaio, who a few months before had called this outdoor jail close to downtown Phoenix – his own tough-on-crime creation – a “concentration camp” in a speech to political supporters at his local Italian-American club.

When asked about the comment by the Guardian in July, Arpaio brushed it off as a joke. “But even if it was a concentration camp, what difference does it make? I still survived. I still kept getting re-elected,” he said.

The jail survived too. For more than 20 years, Tent City stood within a larger jail compound in an industrial area 10 minutes south of downtown Phoenix. At its peak in the late 1990s, it comprised 82 Korean war-era military tents and housed 1,700 inmates. After 2009, it could hold up to 200 undocumented immigrants.

Despite multiple lawsuits from mistreated former prisoners, mounting public outrage and intense criticism from groups such as Amnesty International, which derided the facility as inhumane, overcrowded and dangerous, the outdoor prison remained open. Even the justice department accused Arpaio of racially profiling Latinos on his patrols and denying prisoners basic human rights in his jails.

But now, like Arpaio’s own legacy, Tent City’s tenure is about to come to an end, leaving many local city residents, civil rights groups and former inmates asking: how did it survive for so long?




Lucylastic -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/27/2017 2:55:08 AM)

Now it appears that the hair furor asked Sessions about closing case against Arpaio,

From Wa Po
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-asked-sessions-about-closing-case-against-arpaio-an-ally-since-birtherism/2017/08/26/15e5d7b2-8a7f-11e7-a94f-3139abce39f5_story.html?utm_term=.ce16d8e35dc3

As Joseph Arpaio’s federal case headed toward trial this past spring, President Trump wanted to act to help the former Arizona county sheriff who had become a campaign-trail companion and a partner in their crusade against illegal immigration.

The president asked Attorney General Jeff Sessions whether it would be possible for the government to drop the criminal case against Arpaio, but was advised that would be inappropriate, according to three people with knowledge of the conversation.

After talking with Sessions, Trump decided to let the case go to trial, and if Arpaio was convicted, he could grant clemency.

So the president waited, all the while planning to issue a pardon if Arpaio was found in contempt of court for defying a federal judge’s order to stop detaining people merely because he suspected them of being undocumented immigrants. Trump was, in the words of one associate, “gung-ho about it.”

“We knew the president wanted to do this for some time now and had worked to prepare for whenever the moment may come,” said one White House official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the action.

Responding to questions about Trump’s conversation with Sessions, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, “It’s only natural the president would have a discussion with administration lawyers about legal matters. This case would be no different.”

The Justice Department declined to comment.

Trump’s Friday-evening decision to issue his first pardon for Arpaio was the culmination of a five-year political friendship with roots in the “birther” movement to undermine President Barack Obama. In an extraordinary exercise of presidential power, Trump bypassed the traditional review process to ensure that Arpaio, who was convicted of contempt of court, would face no time in prison.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One racist pig pardoning another racist pig
Birtherism friend got his back
colour me shocked

how many more will he pardon?




BoscoX -> RE: Trump pardoning Arpaio (8/27/2017 7:16:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Now it appears that the hair furor asked Sessions about closing case against Arpaio,

From Wa Po
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-asked-sessions-about-closing-case-against-arpaio-an-ally-since-birtherism/2017/08/26/15e5d7b2-8a7f-11e7-a94f-3139abce39f5_story.html?utm_term=.ce16d8e35dc3

As Joseph Arpaio’s federal case headed toward trial this past spring, President Trump wanted to act to help the former Arizona county sheriff who had become a campaign-trail companion and a partner in their crusade against illegal immigration.

The president asked Attorney General Jeff Sessions whether it would be possible for the government to drop the criminal case against Arpaio, but was advised that would be inappropriate, according to three people with knowledge of the conversation.

After talking with Sessions, Trump decided to let the case go to trial, and if Arpaio was convicted, he could grant clemency.

So the president waited, all the while planning to issue a pardon if Arpaio was found in contempt of court for defying a federal judge’s order to stop detaining people merely because he suspected them of being undocumented immigrants. Trump was, in the words of one associate, “gung-ho about it.”

“We knew the president wanted to do this for some time now and had worked to prepare for whenever the moment may come,” said one White House official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the action.

Responding to questions about Trump’s conversation with Sessions, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, “It’s only natural the president would have a discussion with administration lawyers about legal matters. This case would be no different.”

The Justice Department declined to comment.

Trump’s Friday-evening decision to issue his first pardon for Arpaio was the culmination of a five-year political friendship with roots in the “birther” movement to undermine President Barack Obama. In an extraordinary exercise of presidential power, Trump bypassed the traditional review process to ensure that Arpaio, who was convicted of contempt of court, would face no time in prison.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One racist pig pardoning another racist pig
Birtherism friend got his back
colour me shocked

how many more will he pardon?


Except, I clearly remember you howlers regurgitating talking point propaganda claiming that the president doesn't listen to anyone




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