RE: Consent (Full Version)

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Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 4:38:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

wtf?

quote:

Evolution says mankind has been here for millions of years and so it would seem consent and gender equality are relatively new concepts and so it begs the question are they things that mankind has evolved and if not then has mankind had a chance to evolve in response to them? Or are these just concepts laid in a thin veneer over deep set evolutionary programming we have received over billions of years of evolution?


if THAT not linking the two concepts together, I don't know what is.
It isn't and you obviously don't know? As I have already pointed out the whole subject of evolution was brought up only to point out that the concept of consent seems to be a relatively new idea.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
and it beats the daylights out of me how this---"how does "consent" fit into evolutionary psychology, or alternatively, if it doesn't, then where does the idea of it come from"---is not the relevant question.
Because the relevant question is what is consent and how should deal with it and your "the relevant question" is only a side point at best. If you want to develop it fine go right head, I won't stop you but please stop this nitpicking about what the question "really" is start answering the "question".




Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 4:40:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Twist it any way you want. Rape is not OK.



I'm not twisting anything any way. Tell me when I said rape was OK?

It's funny to me that when someone wants to discuss something and people think that they may not agree with them, instead of actually carrying a discussion, they just attack the other person.

Allow me to assure you. If I wanted to attack you personally, I'd have taken care of that. [:D]




Well you already have, thanx.
;-)




BitaTruble -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 4:40:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

... it would seem consent and gender equality are relatively new concepts ...



No, always existed just now less resisted.

The 21st Century is a wonderful thing. đź––




Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 4:42:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

... it would seem consent and gender equality are relatively new concepts ...



No, always existed just now less resisted.

The 21st Century is a wonderful thing. đź––


Really? Perhaps you have some proof you would like to share?




DaddySatyr -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 4:53:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

wtf?

quote:

Evolution says mankind has been here for millions of years and so it would seem consent and gender equality are relatively new concepts and so it begs the question are they things that mankind has evolved and if not then has mankind had a chance to evolve in response to them? Or are these just concepts laid in a thin veneer over deep set evolutionary programming we have received over billions of years of evolution?


if THAT is not linking the two concepts together, I don't know what is.



C'mon, man! NO ONE brought up evolution until post #1. What's wrong with you, reading what's been posted when you're supposed to be reading the OP's mind?



Michael




bounty44 -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 5:02:27 PM)

absolutely mind boggling to me.

quote:

...so it begs the question are they things [consent being one of the things] that mankind has evolved and if not then has mankind had a chance to evolve in response to them [consent being one of the things]?


that is not me nitpicking, that is you linking the two things together.

quote:

Or are these just concepts laid in a thin veneer over deep set evolutionary programming we have received over billions of years of evolution?


which is another way of saying:

if they (consent being one of those things) are evolutionary in nature, how is that they are? what purpose does it (consent)serve?

and if they aren't evolutionary in nature, then why do we have them, where do they come from?

your "relatively new concepts of consent and gender" phrase is both preceded by, linked to, and carried forward into, evolution.

but regardless, you've done a good job of alienating probably the only two people you might have had an intellectual conversation with about this. if im back, it wont be in conversation with you.





bounty44 -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 5:09:03 PM)

I know---something's surely amiss...and its unfortunate, because its a nifty topic.




Wayward5oul -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 5:13:07 PM)

Yeah, this went about the way I expected. And rightly so.




Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 5:18:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

wtf?

quote:

Evolution says mankind has been here for millions of years and so it would seem consent and gender equality are relatively new concepts and so it begs the question are they things that mankind has evolved and if not then has mankind had a chance to evolve in response to them? Or are these just concepts laid in a thin veneer over deep set evolutionary programming we have received over billions of years of evolution?


if THAT is not linking the two concepts together, I don't know what is.



C'mon, man! NO ONE brought up evolution until post #1. What's wrong with you, reading what's been posted when you're supposed to be reading the OP's mind?



Michael


Yes, I brought up evolution but honestly did you really look at a thread named Consent so you could talk about evolution? I know I didn't.




LadyPact -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 5:24:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Well you already have, thanx.
;-)

Oh ye of little faith. [8D]







Milesnmiles -> RE: Any thing other than the subject "Consent" (10/29/2017 5:28:30 PM)

Talk about anything you want but seeing as you seem to have no intention of talking about the actual subject Consent I'm out of here.
[sm=dancer.gif]




bounty44 -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 5:29:43 PM)

some of this I knew experientially and intuitively, but interesting nevertheless:

(and one can see how it touches on issues of consent, at least in the implied way)

quote:

EMT (error management theory) has also been used to predict adaptive biases in the domain of mating. Consider something as simple as a smile. In one case, a smile from a potential mate could be a sign of sexual or romantic interest. On the other hand, it may just signal friendliness. Because of the costs to men of missing out on chances for reproduction, EMT predicts that men have a sexual overperception bias: they often misread sexual interest from a woman, when really it’s just a friendly smile or touch. In the mating domain, the sexual overperception bias is one of the best-documented phenomena. It’s been shown in studies in which men and women rated the sexual interest between people in photographs and videotaped interactions. As well, it’s been shown in the laboratory with participants engaging in actual “speed dating,” where the men interpret sexual interest from the women more often than the women actually intended it (Perilloux, Easton, & Buss, 2012). In short, EMT predicts that men, more than women, will over-infer sexual interest based on minimal cues, and empirical research confirms this adaptive mating bias.


and the conclusion of the piece is useful:

quote:

Sexual strategies theory and error management theory are two evolutionary psychological theories that have received much empirical support from dozens of independent researchers. But, there are many other evolutionary psychological theories, such as social exchange theory for example, that also make predictions about our modern day behavior and preferences, too. The merits of each evolutionary psychological theory, however, must be evaluated separately and treated like any scientific theory. That is, we should only trust their predictions and claims to the extent they are supported by scientific studies. However, even if the theory is scientifically grounded, just because a psychological adaptation was advantageous in our history, it doesn't mean it's still useful today. For example, even though women may have preferred men with resources in generations ago, our modern society has advanced such that these preferences are no longer apt or necessary. Nonetheless, it's important to consider how our evolutionary history has shaped our automatic or "instinctual" desires and reflexes of today, so that we can better shape them for the future ahead.


http://nobaproject.com/modules/evolutionary-theories-in-psychology




bounty44 -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 5:34:38 PM)

and the opposite of consent:

"Why Do Men Rape? An Evolutionary Psychological Perspective"

the abstract:

quote:

Rape of women by men has occurred throughout recorded history and across cultures. In
this article, we discuss rape from an evolutionary psychological perspective. Evolutionary
psychology is a powerful heuristic tool that allows researchers to develop and test novel
hypotheses about complex behaviors such as rape.


part of the concluding section:

quote:

...Researchers have argued
that men have evolved psychological mechanisms
that motivate them to rape in specific
contexts. Although some evidence is consistent
with this hypothesis, more research must be
conducted before we can conclude that men
have specific adaptations for rape. We propose
that a more nuanced view of rapists is needed,
in which rapists may be thought of as belonging
to one of several types distinguished by the
contexts in which they are predicted to commit
a rape...


for everything in between: http://www.toddkshackelford.com/downloads/McKibbin-et-al-RGP-2008.pdf




NoirMetal -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 6:37:28 PM)

similar primates have a culture that prevents rape.

The Bonobo chimpanzee has a matriarchal system. One of the older females always is the leader. Males who act up get chased off or never get to fuck and breed.

Rape is not part of evolution per se, just a human aberration.




MissKatya -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 7:07:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Twist it any way you want. Rape is not OK.



I'm not twisting anything any way. Tell me when I said rape was OK?


I suppose you said it in this statement:

quote:

In some species, the dominate males are the deciders. So what are humans? Male or female deciders?...




shiftyw -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 7:16:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I know---something's surely amiss...and its unfortunate, because its a nifty topic.


Rape apologists are so nifty....


Also- since this thread is off the rails already-

The Christians think rape is gods will
And now "evolutionists" think rape is natures will, apparently.

So nifty. [8|]

ETA- where's Awareness? Surely we've said rape enough times in this thread to Beetlejuice him here?




Lucylastic -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 7:21:51 PM)

rape apologists arent in the animal kingdom. only homo sapiens.




Lucylastic -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 8:18:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

this is going exactly as Ithought it would, lol

You're right, I don't know why I expected an intellegent discussion about consent, when for so many it is totally an emotional subject.



Well you framed your question poorly.
Thats on you.
Consent is a human structure and a recent one, WHY???? because people are finally admitting that it happens everywhere, everyday, and a lot of people are sick of it. And how it affects their lives.

Non consent is taking liberties (oh where did that phrase come from, because thats what it is)

Damn straight its an emotional subject. Having your liberty removed hurts deeply when its violation of personhood.
Intelligent??? you started badly and continued.
If you have never been sexually molested, sexually abused, raped, of course its not emotional to you.
Even when it happens to someone you love, you cannot feel their emotions, you can only empathise, if you are capable.
How can it not be emotional when you have been violated just because of your sex....(generic you) whether male OR female.
Ignoring it, has been the problem for a millennia.
Its changing and the rape apologists and non consenters are upset that its being shouted down.
It should have happened before I was born.










Greta75 -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 8:44:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Because "fucking" was always one of the most enjoyable things he had ever done.

Yes, a serial murderer also finds it one of the most enjoyable thing he has ever done to kill other human beings.
What's your point?




stef -> RE: Consent (10/29/2017 8:46:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

rape apologists arent in the animal kingdom. only homo sapiens.


And it's amazing how many of them are old white men.




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